Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: May 15, 2021 02:43PM
> The barely mentioned vishnu of rig veda better not
> quite his day job. He's done a piss poor job being
> the protector of children, born or unborn. Plus,
> what does it matter, if you're not your body?
> Isn't it the fetuses karma to get killed in the
Philosophical-theological-moral-legal problem. However, it changes when we assume that time is not linear ...
> Abortion is a fact of life (in the animal kingdom
> infants are killed regularly if they are weak or
> deformed. Ancient tribal cultures also abided by
> this practice. At least now we live in a time
> where we can assess the condition and the
> prospective life of an unborn fetus well before it
> has to suffer through a grueling life). Without it
> we have economic and humanitarian disasters like
This is a rationalization characteristic of gravitational degrading relativization. Difficult living conditions in a society of 1.5 billion - so many hands to work - mean an internal disease. Because regardless of poverty, lack of capital or theft (for example this QNET and accusations vide V. Eswaran & A. Tibby), it is hard to believe that working 1.5 billion people are not able to improve their fate. A question then arises whether the progress in mentality will be such shaping of consciousness, where there is an individual, social or systemic (state law) consent to killing the unborn child instead of increasing individual responsibility. This simple analysis shows that abortion is a continuation of spiritual, moral, or mental devastation.
> Philosophies like Vaishnava fantasy has not
> solved the functional reality that, while deeply
> unpleasant, a system needs to be in place for
> women to safely have an abortion if they need to
> and get the support they need. It's called
> progress. It's called humanitarian.
Not exactly. The question is at what point of operation the system works, what are the causes or reasons for the abortion. Threat to the life of the woman or the fetus - abortion should be an individual choice. In a situation where unwanted pregnancies result from the free treatment of the phenomenon of procreation, the so-called freedom of access is - according to Catholic nomenclature - the industry of death. Life is a mystery to an open scientific, non-indoctrinated inquiring mind. And regardless of the faults of members of fundamentalist and fanatical religious groups, the mind inquiring about the causes treats such behavior on a level worse than that of animals.
Before I met the hope in SIF (disappointing) and left the Catholic Church and turned my attention to Buddhism, considering abortion was a source of horror for me as a teenager.
> Gosh, I can't even imagine the hopelessness and
> utter traumatizing feeling and self deprecating
> judgement a devotee woman lives with who had an
> abortion before joining the cult. Fucking hell. At
> least she saved a child from growing up in this
> religious nightmare of a cult.
Also not necessarily. By recruiting or accepting a new member - or a sheep - a cult can relativize its views. Because eventually someone joined a sect. And it is happening. Abortion before joining SIF is bad. Then she is forgiven because the sect saves.
When it comes to philosophy, it can bring relief. As an example - my would-be girl in her youth had an abortion as a result of submission to a boy, after running away from home, etc. It was a great problem for her for years. She was relieved by the Bhagavad Gita. Although there was an abortion, this soul does exist. She expressed it herself. Then, being a Catholic, she became a good mother.
> Especially if
> you're looking for compassion mercy and acceptance
> after being fandangled to believe in the krishna
> God, only to have a guru like Butler who rubs it
> in your face what hideous creature you are.
That's another aspect.
> There's at least one fanatical lifeforce series
> booklet dedicated to abortion bashing and a
> minimum of 10 colorful lecture recordings.
The question is whether sect members behave better. Examples can be found on the forum.
> The world you criticize and the progress you have
> problems with, based on medieval naive religious
> fantacism, is a world you benefit from.
The question is who sets the criteria, what is progress and what is degeneration, who is to make this progress, and what solutions are acceptable and what are not. Adolf Hitler recognized that the progress of civilization and the German nation was getting rid of the disease - Jews, Roma, homosexuals and some Slavs unfit for efficient work, and the solution was gas chambers. Oh, it wasn't progress. This new pro-abortion progress is a way to get rid of unborn fetuses. In both, there is an element of violence against the defenseless. Jews, Roma and Slavs were also poor. They have to be bombed, shot, closed in concentration camps, gassed or sometimes burned alive. Of course, the economic aspect is important. So the camps must be efficient, valuables must be taken, some clothes must be used, their hair must be made into pillows and their bodies must be soap. Similarly with fetuses - they can be used for cosmetics.
This is this progressive philosophy.
> You can
> stomp your feet against modernity, but you use a
> computer and participate in any number of liberal
> capitalist systems, daily. In fact, if it wasn't
> for the industrial and technological revolutions,
> your religion would have died in Bengal.
Yes and no. This progressive philosophy presents, inter alia, the gun theory, and whether one wants to believe it or not, in practice it still works. On an individual or social or global level, self-interest triggers at some stage counter-action or competition, and after exceeding the acceptable level, it triggers the mechanisms of war. So a zero sum game turns into a negative sum game. The alleged unlimited economic progress has collapsed, the USA is in debt, according to the mechanism of potential equalization plus competition in profits (Germany) there has been economic growth in China. The philosophy of unlimited economic growth is a pipe dream. So is the narrative about the end of the story. There is no end to the story. It is the end of the unipolar geopolitical system and there is a return to particularism and games for balance ... This religion is not so backward ...
> Quoting ancient myth and ideas will not reverse or
> slow down reality. Trust me, life is better now
> for most than it was 200, 500, 1000, 5000, 12000,
> 400,000 years ago. Complicated? Absolutely. Still
> trying to figure things out? Always. But that's
> life and no religion has offered a better way. Not
> Vedic, Abrahamic or otherwise. Sorry. God is dead.
Modern science has not directly solved the basic problem - it has not developed artificial synthesizing replicators. That is, a mechanism that they duplicated themselves having previously obtained resources. There is no such creation. So there is no first condition for creating a substitute for life. The second - apart from the carrier - is gaining self-awareness.
> One need not follow Butler to understand the
> theory of karma, reincarnation or even bhakti (if
> those topics attract you). In fact, modern man has
> at thier disposal much data that quickly puts to
> rest 90% of what butler and the krishnas have to
> offer. The remaining is actual philosophy (still
> some philosophers opinion) and a rich cultural
> heritage that westerns ripped off. The theology
> falls in the realm of faith and can be taken
> symboliclly or literally, but lies beyond reason
> and science. And for the record, you ever notice
> that Who Are You? and Reincarnation Explained have
> never been picked up by a serious publishing house
> and reprinted even once since the '80s?
This filosophy is one of the proposal for mystics. She says it herself - one in a thousand is interested, and one in a thousand of them reaches the final goal.
As one of the Sanyasi said, "if you want this .... then you have to do this and this." This is a completely different approach than manipulative recruitment at SIF.
"Reality of Reincarnation" is good book. On the other hand, selling it hard in a cemetery is already a pathology.
> But alas, I'm not here to convince you as much as
> to keep this forum from devolving into incoherent
> mush and obscuring the real issues within this
I do not need anything on this forum. Likewise, no one has to believe me. The forum exists and everyone who wants to share their experiences does so. I don't need to write any further because I wrote most of the observed phenomena. I have omitted personal details and a number of incidents that may, under certain circumstances, be disclosed.
My judgment is mine. Your situation is different, the assessment is different. They were slightly hurt, forced, etc.
On the other hand, I will not accept an atheistic narrative or one that undermines the "spiritual" experiences that have been in SIF. The more question is why after the program at SIF the "mystical" experiences were closer to mystical yoga, eg daily OBE and not "prema" etc.
But that's it.
> Tulsi and butler and ISKCON will do
> anything to remain relevant in a world that
> largely does not take them seriously. Tulsi will
> dwindle into obscurity not because she's a
> politician, but because she's a religious fanatic
> masquerading as a humanitarian in a world that's
> become disillusioned with such flimsy narratives.
> Butler will dwindle because he was abusive to
> followers and created an organization of
> sentimental fanatics, like ISKCON, all of which
> will use any means necessary to try to convince
> people that they have the answers.
Tulsi Gabbard & SIF has no proposition for the world, because her practice of life (participation in the invasion of Iraq, divorce), understanding (practically no understanding of the Bhagavad Gita) or politics (democratic compromise vs Planned Parenthood acceptance) does not add value to the world.