Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: IanKoviak ()
Date: June 08, 2021 05:49AM

Anyone seen this series on Hulu? []

Just wondering if it's any good.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: June 08, 2021 08:44PM

I have not watched the series. It looks interesting.
There are a few good podcatsts out there on cults I really liked.
I think Holy Hell is my top to go documentary on Charismatic gurus and the power they have on the followers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Vera City ()
Date: June 09, 2021 04:23AM

Just a note in response to a Truth Wins posting of an SOI blog. This person's attempt to discredit every effective poster on this forum who has exposed Butler and his cult is full of plot holes. At this moment I don't have time to get into all the deceptions point by point.

Truth Wins wrote:
"By the way I forgot to mention this article by a loyal SoI memeber.
He is bashing this site and the people who exposed the cult using their weaknesses."
They were not weak. Mistakes were made, Some were guiless and naive. They did not understand the justice system, nor had the money to hire a lawyer. The cult won judgements due to no-shows.

Most statements in this SOI blog are outright lies and deceptions.

Each Cult Ed poster has a story. But their content in exposing Butler was solid. A lot of great stuff was scrubbed from the internet by Butler's Polish minions.

There is a lot that went on behind the scenes.

".Like there is never anything shady about them.
The level of arrogance and denial it takes to think they are white as snow is beyond my understanding."


I am in good company with the exception of Flashlight_on_Roaches (Bredimus?). As soon as it came out that he was an alleged pedophile, everyone on this forum disavowed him. I for one was not a supporter and did battle with this character on and off the forum.

There has been a lot of disruption in the past by "controlled opposition" that almost destroyed this thread. Allies were attacking and suspicious of each other. Trolls were all over the place. I was attacked both on and off the forum. That's over now,

Like I said, there is a lot of junk in that article.

Mostly I want to state that I am not Larry Burrows: "The disgruntled former student". Nor do I know him and have never interviewed him. (Burrows should sue this blogger if he even knows it was posted.)

As I have always stated, I am very close to an "exer" whose life, resources, and youth was stolen and disrupted by this cult. Because of my closeness to this person, it affected my life as well. I have interviewed several exers for my posts and used my propensity for writing to expose Butler for them. Like Christine Gralow I pulled info from primary sources and documents.

I believe these exers have a right to not only their privacy, but also the right not to confront Butler directly.

If you look at the history of cults, directly confronting the leader or his lieutenants never stopped a cult unless you have arrest warrants or media behind you.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2021 04:45AM by Vera City.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Date: June 09, 2021 08:58AM

Yes. Arrest warrants sound ideal.
Sit back and watch, good people.

It is what a criminal organization deserves.

Yes, we all pulled from our and our loved ones personal experiences in this cult.
It is the truth.
And as Vera states, others as well have posted their own experiences, traumas, and grievances.
It is the truth.

Butler is going to be hard pressed to defend his lies in the face of justice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: June 09, 2021 09:28AM

Vera City, I know that the Medium essay was a cheap attempt.
By weakness I meant the irrational, aggressive tones of some words that these people used against them. Attacking a cult is not a sign of weakness.
Yes of course everybody is entitled to their privacy and it is a choice not to confront them directly.
Rama Ranson is a testimony that these guys are not that dangerous. Otherwise he would be long gone like the guy who got killed by Iskcon in 1986 for exposing the fake gurus.
Even if I get down by a fanatic follower, big deal! It will be just a role I played in this lifetime.
I did not force anybody. It was just a suggestion.
The story of me getting pushed to do it, is a scifi movie in itself.
Who can possibly show up at Butler’s door and confront him directly?
All his mail is filtered. Do you think they will show him something “offensive”.
The senior disciples are not monsters. Nobdoy will ever catch me being unfair.
Those people have always been kind, respectful and avaialable. Even those I have never met in person.
They are all under the hypnosis of a man who is extremely complex himself.
The problem with SoI is that it is a mixed bag. It is so schizophrenic that it takes a huge deal of discernemnet to realize that it is a toxic place over all.
If people could not stop Iskcon after overt murders, noone will be able to stop SoI.
It is not our job either to wake up a bunch of grown ups who see an unqualified guru as their life and soul savior.
It is not like jumping in with guns and stopping child traffickers or Drug Lords.
It is a covert cult with a bunch of stupid politics, fear and control.
Like pretty much all cults.
I have extensively explained it. Many thrive in that group. We should not feel sad or sorry for all of them.
Some chant, travel, live in nice homes, are never exposed to fear.... They just drink the nectaran side juice of the cult.
I have also written separate posts about it all.
I believe that those who are ready to leave will leave in due time.
My greatest hope is that these exposures will inspire them to improve the situation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: June 09, 2021 12:44PM

Vera City Wrote:
> He is bashing this site and the people who exposed
> the cult using their weaknesses."

Of course.

Criminals in prison also have claims that they were incapacitated only because of "weakness". Diverse and yet classified and "weighed" in the penal code ...

Vera City Wrote:
".Like there is never anything shady about them.

Of course.

Police officers from the drug department have never been to the SIF center in Krakow, Poland in 1990's ....Willingness to burn a lamb at the stake for drinking black tea and information from colleagues probably from Interpol aroused great respect in them.

Of course, a lot has changed, but as you can see, deviations in the style of "premotherapy" - are continued. And this, unfortunately, has the hallmarks of "aparadha" - supposedly in their philosophy (apart from yoga-nidra).

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2021 12:56PM by DaWatcher.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: June 09, 2021 01:07PM

Truth wins Wrote:
> Those people have always been kind, respectful and
> avaialable. Even those I have never met in person.

From what I remember, of course the people who were, came in and after, obviously had their faults and weaknesses, but the tendency to work or devote among the most committed was evident. They gave their lives, abandoned their careers.

They were distinguished by their interest in transcendence, especially in Poland in the 1990s when money was flowing in a stream and people were choked with consumerism and capitalism. But they preferred God ...

Hence, it is doubtful, for example, that A.Tibby represents "his friend P. Bowler" as an icon. Ok, he got out of prison, changed, or simply from the very beginning Maryjane was the foundation of finances, but it's hard to believe that among sheep with hard work at SIF in Australia would be no better candidate for an icon, runner-up or example. Well, maybe this example of "conversion" is spectacular, it elevates the spirit in the church, etc. Unfortunately, in an educational sense, it is quite complicated for simple minds. He was in jail but for Maryjane, what is now allowed because even ex Senator Mike has always supported weed. He was a sinner, but he wasn't because he was giving donations. His mafia mates were also sinners, but were'not cause it was only Maryjane, but he denounced them, so he didn't get a life sentence of just 12 years. This trade in Maryjane was not a threat to anyone, but from the beginning they decided not to hurt anyone ...

Well ...What i can say the stuff is really worth of it....

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2021 01:08PM by DaWatcher.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: June 09, 2021 02:11PM

Of course someone will say - DaWatcher, stop talking about this religion.

Ok. Let's look differently. I see other deviations here. If T. Gabbard, Our Lady of Weed Happines and Grenade Salvation, which accepts funding from Planned Parenthood, is a blessed saint in the new religion, I see a problem here.

What about the Curly Dave offering? He made a heroic attempt to blow up the clinic and his head flew on the city or school bus, as the hagiography says and now heresy? Not only is there no bombing at clinics but they will get money from the US government as T. Gabbard accepts? You should be afraid of the Curly Dave ghost, because he will visit you with grudges ...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: Truth wins ()
Date: June 09, 2021 10:07PM

Arrest them for what?
For being able to brainwash thousands of adults who find joy in free labor, fear and control?
Everybody is an enabler in cults and responsible for running a toxic show. Bringing in new people who will in their turn get brainwashed and transformed into free labor slaves.
Who creates these narcissist guru monsters? Who gives them power, glorifies them?
What would they be without the blind followers?
Can we just sit and throw arrows at gurus for the lack of common sense of followers.
I wrote this before. Butler is not hiding his game that badly.
He often uses dog terminology. Long, short leash, beads around the necks are dog collars, putting people in the dog house, women who want to get marries very badly are like dogs in heat...
Those people are FINE with these methods. The door is open for anybody to leave.
We must stop looking at members as victims. Asides from the kids who must endure the crap till they are old enough to leave.
These people have created an idol. They are in a different universe.
As we speak, most of them are much more blissed out than we are.
They have succeeded in being good straws on the street that you can walk all over.
At least the 3 rd prayer has really worked on them. Let us give them that much credit.
Here you have the peaceful members of society who have lost all sense of discernment and self respect. Who can put up with all kinds of abuse and non sense.
A path that encourages one to look at guru as God. A faultless being who is beyond judgment.
Why is nobody able to just accept that this is a very complex web.
The whole philosphy tells you that the reason we are here is because of the false ego and that we did not want to be servants....That we are arrogant, envious of God, the only number one.
Then you have a Butler kind guru who is reforming souls into their servant (slave) position so that they can go back home, and we throw rocks at him. Lol!
What is his crime? Taking advantage of the teachings and a bunch of mindless followers? If accepting your position of servant will get you back home, then the guy is doing an amazing job getting the followers ready. They are all guaranteed a ticket home to Krishna Loka.
This path can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. I have mentioned it many times.
You need a true Saint in order to be able to guide souls on this path without taking advantage of their vulnarability.
These people are trained and encouraged to accept abuse. It takes a very mature soul to see through the veil of deception.
To find the courage to let go of the fear of offenses...
These people believe they are gambling their souls. Letting go of the guru means losing the opportunity to get free from birth and death.
Of course such a huge promise will turn one into a mindless slave.
Liberation from material existence? No matter how high the cost is worth it right?
Butler did not invent these theories. He is just riding the wave and is convinced himslef he is the external manifestation of God.
What can those followers do when they even feel some discomfort?
We are held in absolute darkness of the Vaishnava outside world.
We think that it is just butler and Iskcon. Where to run, where to hide?
Bliss addicts, attached as hell to Krishna and the holy names and the idols (guru, advanced devotees)... How to let go of that golden ticket home. Last incarnation guaranteed?
Let us not simplify an extremely complex situation. This cult is not just a criminal organization.
It is a soul trap. A very deep and elaborate trap.
Even when you leave, you are left questioning yourself. Did I truly miss the opportinity? Are those who decided to stay back and suffer, the real winners?
This whole process is like Alice in Wonderland. Once you are thrown into the hole, you end up into the dimension of Krishna Consciousness and all that is included in the package.
The negatives and the positives. And noone forced anyone to accept it.
It is not a crusade. People walked in with their won 2 feet.
Those you consider victims, see themselves as the luckiest souls on the planet who get to know the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Get to see god face to face. Offer him food and love. Live in security that at the moment of death, the spiritual airplane will land with the Vishnudutas to take them back to the real home.
Where can you get such an Amazing trip? No magic mushrooms, Acid, LSD can offer you such an amazing vision.
Think very deeply. Are they victims really? No. They are in a deep trance.
I say yes to exposure but with a great level of emotional distance. And looking at the bigger picture.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Butler, Jagad Guru, Science of Identity
Posted by: DaWatcher ()
Date: June 10, 2021 02:18AM

Truth wins Wrote:
> Arrest them for what?

Well, I will be sweet as a candy or honey bee and write to those who say that I am offensive to the devotees of Krishna:
- and if we again take into account the facts in the case of Kasia Socha's suicide, and regardless of whether the case is outdated or not, we will want to show in court some omitted facts, e.g. that there was no traditional Tadan & Lalan in the science and practice of SIF Polska, and then We would like to remind you that Kasia Socha was sick - and allegedly the knowledge about it was known - why was she fired from work and then from the center? Is this the way to treat a sick person? Can a qualified person approach a sick person in this way? If we recall on the basis of evidence about the presence of LSD in the process of mystical experiences or provide evidence that the first experiences in Hawaii were experiences and practices aimed at addicted people, i.e. a foreign country, foreign psychology, etc., and then a hard regime transferred to the Polish reality through the Grand Vizier and the Renounced Manager.

Dear sweet transcendental mice - am I offensive? Am I asking about things that are not factually correct? What's offensive about what I'm quoting? Do I miss the truth? Sweet cuties - where am I wrong? that I resemble this? This possible move to remind the victim who suffered is offensive? Has it somehow expired? After 50 years have passed, why are souls judged before Yamaraja? Can such arguments be used in front of Him?

Or maybe we need to meet together before the 3rd instance and we will talk to the evidence on the table?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2021 02:32AM by DaWatcher.

Options: ReplyQuote

Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.