What isn't funny is what happens to the people who get partnered, then married in a personality driven group.
Here are a handful of examples in which gurus have interfered with marriages.
* Rajneesh (also known as "Osho") The Osho ashram remains thriving in Poona, India. Many Osho devotees are active in the rave scene in Goa, Ibiza, and other
'hip' ex patriate areas.
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* Prabupada
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* Michael Gottlieb (deceased) Royal Way "Marriage Courts"
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They are not told that their marriage may develop into the psychological equivalent of a "three-way".
A guru may be loving and wise early in his or her career. Yet this guru may regress into arrogance after years of being coddled, years of being surrounded by an inner circle of flatterers. That guru may feel entitled to manipulate devotees and interfere in their marriages, intrude into their erotic lives and childrearing.
A guru may select an unworthy successor. There are incentives for ambitious persons to flatter and intrigue in order to be designated the next guru. Once enthroned, the ambitious successor may feel entitled to exploit all the privileges of power after years of groveling.
In such situations the guru will play God and intrude into disciples' family lives. To admit that a guru is an unworthy heir
means admitting that the deceased guru was not infallible and had imposed
a corrupt successor.
Sudhir Kakar warned that after years of exposure to adoration, the very outcome courted by the guru, this leads to disciples devaluing themselves so they can believe the guru is superior, and leads the guru to develop ego
inflation - and a commensurate contempt for the disciples.
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Boundaries erode. The guru feels entitled to intrude; disciples lose capacity
to defend themselves. Worse, after years in the group, exit costs are high.
Too often, gurus have felt entitled to intrude upon the erotic lives of
their devotees and interfere with marriages and childcare.
Imagine having the guru telling you what to do in bed. That, friends is a
three way.
Here is a thought experiment. I have no way of knowing this is what they
do in Chris Butler's group or not.
It is just a thought experiment. There are lots of gurus out there. (Titles vary).
What if, before you get married, you are told, in full and up front, that you will end up having a big picture of the guru in your bedroom?
And in an area where you....err...had to look at that picture at every moment, Ooookaaaay??
Now that this romantic scenario is fixed in your imagination...
Is that what you really want? Would you
still want to get married under
those conditions?
But -- you are not told up front what will be demanded of you. No. It is all
sweetness and light while you are both being courted and presented to the
community as the current example of the happy couple.
Ponder just what it means for the guru and group to be the Dominant Entity in your "marriage."
A guru who claims to be God will always be Top Dog. Marriages run second place.
But..you'll not be told this, not at first.
Friends,
Unlike adult consensual kink, you will not have been given the training or
opportunity to sit down and consciously negotiate in advance what you do and do not want.
In adult consensual kink all parties discuss what they want, what they expect what their limits are.
And - very important -- all parties negotiate and agree on "Safe Words" or signals that indicate when someone wants to pause, or needs to stop and leave
the scenario.
Above all - one can state one's limits with no fear of being shamed or guilt tripped.
The first step in successfully negotiating a three way is to establish that all three persons actually want this.
But with personality driven groups there is no such thing as boundaries, limits, or safe words -- because the domineering person regards you not
as people, but as property. You have NO legitimate way to refuse anything.
Do you both consent?
* Do You want the guru as a third party in your marriage? Suppose the guru
does morph slowly into a tyrant over the years and does begin to interfere
in your marriage? What if the guru dies and appoints an intrusive, tyrannical
successor who demands intrusion into your marriage and your shared erotic lives?
* Do you want the guru to tell you when and when not to do it?
* Do you want the guru to tell you what you can and cannot enjoy? What
if these are the only ways that you both enjoy?
* Do you want the guru to decree when you can have children or not?
* Do you want the guru to tell you what kind of birthing arrangement to have - who your OB, midwife, pediatrician should be?
* Do you want the guru telling you when or whether to breast feed, and for how long? Very many mothers find they cannot breast feed or do want to do so. Imagine implications of a guru intruding upon so private a matter.
* Do you want your own choice of baby sitter, or must you put your children in
supervision of people you actually do not like or trust, just because they are the guru's favorites?
* Do you want your child's medical care and education to be dictated by a guru?
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In the blog, "Rituals of Disenchantment" one person commented
on time spent in the SYDA yoga cult, run by Gurumayi.
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I remember a couple who got 'worked on' by the 'guru' sending bouquets of flowers to the husband while ignoring the wife. Eventually they divorced from the jealousy of it all. THIS is spiritual companionship?
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Dear older but wiser,
Your post reflects my experience which was observing an extremely high-level person in siddha yoga and what happened to him. His "loyalty" was constantly tested by gurumayi. She gave him information and told him it was "for his eyes only", that, under no circumstances should he tell anyone, including his wife. I watched their marriage unravel as he held more and more "privileged information". I watched the guru play favorites with this person's children, focusing her attention on one, excluding the others.
I watched this high-level person struggling to maintain his integrity and lose and I saw the entire family consumed by separation and competition for "the guru's love". It was a very sad thing to see and had alot to do with why I left siddha yoga.
I remember having a conversation with this person one afternoon about "loyalty" to the guru, how it was "paramount". This person was such a truly compassionate and ethical human being and I still wonder what deep sickness could have driven gurumayi to destroy his integrity. It's as though she has a moral "slime gun" and goes after the best of her followers until she "destroys their egos" and they become just like their guru.
Frankly, I have to say that gurumayi does not seem to have a clue about what "No Ego" really means.
sadhvi
So, consider what you want.
Yoga? Make sure you stay with just yoga, and don't let the lovely yoga community monopolize your friendships and recreation. Diversify your social assets.
You like the rave scene? Identify your sexual boundaries - an essential part of
growing up. If you're into poly amory, exploring the Osho connection might
be fine.
But if you recognize that you are, at heart, monogamous, you risk losing self respect if you get pressured into an Osho-ite social/sexual scene.
Someone once said, 'in prison you'd better figure out what sex you are, or others will decide that for you.'
These days, the same holds true for the spiritual seeker's scene.
You want a monogamous marriage? It wont be monogamous if your guru intrudes.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2015 10:27PM by corboy.