I don't wish you and I to get off on the wrong foot, can i begin with the caveat that your opinion has to be appreciated in this topic, and it's healthy for it to be heard.
> What this boils down to is that an anonymous
> person wants me and others to condemn James
> Swartz, but is not willing to come forth publicly,
> despite having support, and apparently enough
> proof to win a court case.
You spoke earlier about critical thinking, which is a very valid point. It's not necessarily true that Heather wants people to condemn JS. What is really clear is that she is giving an opinion that challenges another opinion. The latter being that there are no issues with JS.
There are all manner of reasons why someone doesnt feel able to come forward. This is a potential child rape victim we are talking about. And while it is also true that JS is entitled to defend himself, the truth also is, he himself is quite able to armchair warrior on the internet, wading into many things.
We also can't presuppose that anyone can win a court case before any due process has started. That is up to a jury. :).
> If they're already on forums discussing these
> apparent past events and have put out a book on it
> all, then they are reliving it anyway. Why not
> bring the whole thing to light? It would benefit
It is a valid point, however we should not lose sight that heather might be a bona fide victim. Let's suppose it could be true. Just a little. Can we really pre-judge what someone should be able to do.
> I'd just say screw your reputation and go for it.
> Sue the guy. It's adharmic to let a rapist go on
> raping. If dharma is on your side, you'll come
> out the winner.
I genuinely don't know if it is exactly like that. Heather could say. Might it possibly be she is apprehensive for herself, and her family. I am sorry to say this Heather, but victims go through an awful lot of emotions. Including shame and guilt. I know you will read this Heather, and I know you are a warrior. Im just saying there are many reasons, some bundled together, why someone wont go public.
Regarding letting him go on raping. Is that what is happening or being claimed is happening? I hav'nt followed thoroughly many replies here.
Regarding dharma and adharma. The vedanta view is that it will depend on lots of factors. What is universally adharmic is one thing. the law is the most obvsious moral compass for this. If someone breakas the law, and there is a victim, what is dharmic for the victim is primary.
If we are second guessing someone like this, we are judging. And we are judging Isvara. And that is ok to judge Isvara cause judging is Isvara too.
May i just say also, that just cause some action is dharmic does not mean someone comes out a winner. That is no appreciation of Isvara as the KArma Phala Data. The provider of the results of karma. It is generally true that if one leads a dharmic life then there life may be gentle to them. That is not a golden rule by any means though...
...This is because prarabhda karma, fructifying karma is not just about this life, but accumulated ones. If we are speaking vedanta. :).
> James can be outspoken. He can be harsh towards
> teachers who teach things in opposition to advaita
> vedanta. Perhaps that triggered someone to
> attempt to damage his reputation. So far it
> hasn't worked.
I am sorry, but that is ridiculous. Only in the world of modern vedanta does he have any credibility. Granted he gets a nod here and there from some Swami, but well known swami in those same traditions do not regard him a a traditional vedanta teacher.
I've been extensive in this topic in showing how he is not using the vedanta pramanana as meant to be. To illustrate it further, and this is fact, Ramakrishna mission, and Ramana didnt either...
...This does not mean one doesnt have the jnanam, that is another subject. This means that they way these people, JS, Ramakrisna, Ramana, Papaji, Gangaji, they have changed the pramana in various ways and that has impacted the effectiveness of it...
...It can be said that very highly qualified people may possibly attain enlightenment from such teachings. Yet most are not that level. That is the third level. Most are either the first or the second. So vedanta wishes to develop those. Unfortunately anyone with critical thinking and a sound grasp of vedanta will see the samsaric baubles that JS and Shiningworrd teaches.
Let me share one thing with you. A most obvious point. Jnani, enlightened people are humble. And need no fanfare. If one visits the e-satsangs of Shiningworld all that can be saw is so called students who are praising JS for their enlightenment. Or self-realization, as he calls it. Even though there is no such thing. Anyhow, the point is that it is him and his wife that are posting all these glorification's about them. Self-glorification. The fact that there are many vedanta errors screaming out makes one hope the comedy there carries on.
It is only in the bubble of Shiningworld that all is rosy. That bubble of fear. You do what they say. You speak the way they say to you is vedanta speak also. Which is pure crap btw. The pretentious third-party verbage about the person who is speaking is symptomatic of their own non assimilated teachings. And it is fine for them to be like that. All this is Isvara, and they can be whatever way they want. But if you want to speak to me about their teachings here, we can at length.
I know personally that many, a great number, have had enough of Shiningworld. Ive personally spoke to many of them. People can try to deny it is happening, but I've got no need to lie. And if im not believed i couldn't care less, cause it's happening anyhow, hehe.
> If the victim wants to get somewhere with this,
> and if the accusations are true, then they've got
> to go beyond this talking behind backs stuff, as
> if we're all in elementary school spreading
> Rumours always go around about spiritual teachers
> who have at least a bit of success. Some of them
> may be true. Some not.
> Lots of people get jealous of the success that
> others obtain. Siblings get jealous of siblings.
> Friends get jealouos of friends. Spiritual
> teachers get jealous of spiritual teachers.
Your insinuating very emotive stuff here. Can I just say, that even if it was the case of a teacher against him, Isvara responds to him the way that is appropriate. JS is never done putting down all other teachers. Even his own Guru, a most amazing display of a lack of Shradda that I have ever witness. For he took glory in publishing it. It's ludicrous.
Regarding success. What you are saying here tells where you are in your path. There is no possibility of wanting success for jnani. It's not about that not ever. So if any teacher takes an alternate view about JS is might not be about success. A vedanta teacher is not in the slightest interested in success. That is vishaya ananda. And moksha, is about understanding the non value of all vishaya ananda.
> Nothing has been proven about this. He has taught
> so much good to people, that it's going to take at
> least a real attempt at a court case to make any
> dent in his reputation, let alone stop him from
> doing anything wrong (which there is no proof of).
Might it be that the idea was to inform people? Public opinion is important, yes. But it is dharmic to inform the world at least.
Regarding he has taught so much good to people. So have many others. That in the end there have been serious issues emerging. The whole point might be to inform people so they can make a decision, sometimes intuitively. A grandiose court case may never happen, for many reasons.
JS has also taught many bad things to people. I know this for a fact. Things he has taught has been highly controlling. This is anecdotal, but a psychologist who witnessed certain things first hand, albeit from the sidelines, left SW as she told me it looks very much cult behavior.
You sound SW. You and I can interact here and we can explore the controlling and abusive behavior of JS. The forum can grab the popcorn, hehe.
> Some parts of the book seem to be lacking in
> empathy if the victim was actually victimized as
> stated. The whole book starts off joking about
> different quotes that were considered to open
> with. There's also a joke, "No pun intended, Mark
> Gafni seems to be hard to keep down." That seems
> in appropriate for the subject matter.
Any way a book is wrote, and any way someone looking to find flaws critiques, has got no direct bearing on what actually happened to a Victim. The author has explained various things already, and it is reasonable what was said.
> I find myself wondering who got triggered by
> James, and why they have so much time to write a
> little book, yet don't have the guts to take him
There are countless victims of JS, in many things. I have personally spoke to many. Not sexual victims, but abusive in cultish ways. These people wnt want to come forward. There seems a feeling the the spiritual world it is somehow wrong to make a 'fuss'. The truth is important.
Anyhow, we need to do a reality check here RF. JS as been took on. The exact way that he takes one anyone he wants to destroy, and they are legion. Using the same weapon he uses on so many others.
> We're led to believe that Heather is a victim, and
> that Devon Adler wrote a book about it. If I did
> all of this interviewing and found out all of the
> information that Devon apparently did, I'd want to
> sue James.
You dnt make sense. An investigating writer wont take a lawsuit for finding out the evidence. The victim has to. And you cannot know what someone should or should not do unless you have been in that situation.
I wouldn't just sit back and hope that
> one day the "Feds" will decide it's worth looking
> into some incident in the 80s where a teenager did
> a striptease at a private party. Big deal that a
> teenager went for a ride across state lines with
> someone who wasn't their parent. It happens
> hundreds of times every day.
You are being deliberately emotive, and you are trying to encourage flaming of you on here. Flaming will only detract from the validity of anything that's being said on a forum.
You do know that what has been recounted was rape? Do you find it appropriate to discount child rape so blase? I hope you keep talking with me in this forum. We're going to have a lovely time. Can you feel the excitement?
> I also find it hard to emphasize with some lady
> sitting back in a tropical home, watching her kids
> enjoy life, living with a great saviour of a
> husband. If she's been so hard done by, then she
> should do something about it.
You do know that critical thinking isnt about trying to invalidate something, dont you? It's about looking at both sides. And you are pure Shiningworld. And I love that you are here, hehe.
You emphasizing or not with someone who has done there best to move forward in life, hardly means anything. You're opinionated remark is so pretentious. This is a potential child rape victim. You havnt got a clue if it is true or not, though it's clear you sit behind a keyboard yourself and even make comments about the husband. Haha.
You're are very much SW. So much I woouldnt be surprised if you are quite close to the head's of the axis command.
> This book seems like a failed project to me. It's
> just a chance for people who already don't like
> James to have something to talk about. Why are
> you just letting James go about doing his thing if
> he's actually a rapist and supposedly has done a
> lot more? You have an obligation to stop him.
It may seem whatever way to you. And you can claim online it isnt making a difference. If SW say it isnt' making a difference, I'm saying they are liars. Because I know for a fact it is making a difference. It's about people thinking twice, and having a little space to make their own minds up. Many are distancing themselves from SW now.
> Anyway, I remain open, but unconvinced. I'm sure
> that's how many people who know of James and have
> heard these allegations think too.
Just tell the truth. It's obvious what you think and why you are here. And that is ok. Youre entitled to speak.
> Everyone knows it's difficult for some victims of
> rape to speak about it, but this is a time when
> it's a lot easier than in the past to do so.
> There seems to be a lot of confidence in the book
> about James' supposed crimes, so it just makes
> people think that it's actually not true if the
> victim doesn't do anything about it. There are a
> lot of critical thinkers out in the world that are
> willing to take on the idea that people like James
> Swartz may have done things like the things he's
> accused of, regardless of how much they like him.
> Bring him to court, win the case because you've
> got all the proof, apparently, and enjoy the
> fruits of your labours. Be inspired by Arjuna who
> didn't want to go to war. If he died in battle,
> he'd win, and if he lived in battle, he'd win.
> It's a win-win situation for the victim.
You know something, you sound like JS here. Though not quite. Some things you are writing here is what he would say. So, what happens with SW is they all colloborate together, and I would not be surprised if this is a combined effort post. But the more you post with me the more I will be able to tell. :) .
There is no point in you mentioning Arjuna. Arjuna had no choice. That was why Krishna was quite terse with him at the start of the Bhagavad Gita. Arjuna was a warrior. A major one. It was his duty to war. All were assembled. And he wanted to leave the field. This was because he would be fighting his teachers.
For Arjuna, his personal svadharma meant there was never a choice. For Heather there is. It's not appropriate to use partial vedanta teachings to try to encourage someone to do something.
I can openly say that James SWartz has done this many times.
> If this is just left alone, then it would be like
> Bill Cosby's still on TV and doing the comedy
> circuits, laughing along with everyone, meanwhile
> having damaged so many people's lives. The
> victims came forth and he rightly was punished.
> He can't hurt anyone anymore. If these victims
> could take on a very popular man who represented
> family values, and who was a guy who made millions
> of people laugh, then certainly the victim of this
> story can take on a spiritual teacher not known by
> the general public. Everyone loves to take down a
> cult leader.
You dont see him as a cult leader, though, even though he is.
You can pre-judge someone who is claiming to be a victim of child rape all day long, that is your right. Perhaps at some point you will begin acting dharmically, and (assuming you are not JS) you will see how invalid it is to judge or take shots directly at said person. And it is directly, as you know she is reading these comments.
the dharmic approach is that you don't know. You really don't. So instead of refusing to believe anything, why dont you at least begin to objectively see if at least the way he is teaching isnt the way it is claimed. See if, with a critical opinion if he is showing cult behaviour. You might not, cause people in SW are scared to give an opinion that is not the party line. But this is a dharmic approach. If you begin this, it may lead to other things. It has for many, who have been reconditioned after they left.
I can say, this isnt an easy approach. And the lure of Shiningworld is potent, but once free, one see's it for what it is. Yet, the want is still inside for many of the victims of this cult.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2019 10:18PM by earthquake.