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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Russian Fatima ()
Date: September 03, 2019 08:51AM

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I've been into James Swartz for a few years and have had nothing but positive experiences. I've read his books, listened to his videos, read his satsangs, and communicated a little with him and ShiningWorld staff via email.

Of course nobody owes it to me to prove anything, but when I see such accusations against him, I just want to know the truth. That's up to Isvara if I get to know the truth about it all or not.

It seems to me that all of the points against Swartz in this thread can be countered. Perhaps that's why I would love to see him taken to court. I'd like to see what both sides have to say.

I don't see a problem with him putting down other teachers. All of his critcism against them makes sense. He points out problematic teachings. He always says he's not attacking the person, but the teachings. He makes that clear. He also often says that these are good people whose intentions are not always bad, but who are just teaching misleading things.

I find the accusations on this forum difficult to believe because James is so full of knowledge that he can go on for hours and hours year after year talking vedanta.

This is the only forum where I've found anyone badmouth him.

I just think if you all want your accusations to have some teeth, you should take him to task and bring him to court. Otherwise you could be pushing people away from vedanta.

Many people are very happy to have James in their life and to have access, for free, to him and his plentiful resources.

I've never heard of such a giving author in my life. Usually you read a book and that person is inaccessible. On the other hand, James himself is accessible and has countless books, articles, videos, etc. A lot of it is free.

It doesn't seem dharmic to me to be badmouthing someone, writing a book that accuses him of rape and other things, and not confronting them directly.

James takes what could otherwise be really boring and brings it to the masses of westerners who don't know anything about Hinduism. That's a great service. Nobody wants to listen to a bunch of stuffy old monks from a foreign country going on about ancient texts in an academic manner. Also, to imply that James leaves the heart out of the teachings is false. He says the heart and brain are both important, but he just emphasizes that a big problem in modern spirituality is that people are overly emotional and are going for experiences instead of knowledge. He's addressing that imbalance. If you don't want to exercise your logic and just want to sit around and magically "get it", that's not going to work.

I'm just going to guess that some of the people here just have some little issue with him or someone related to him, so are taking out their frustrations here. Maybe you're missing the big picture, the value of what he teaches, and how he brings so many people out of hopeless situations to vedanta.

Anyway, I'm sure he'll go on teaching and only become more popular over time. He's a fighter and will be teaching until the day he dies. I've yet to have had a single negative experience from him. There's a lot I like about him.

So, bring it on, if he's such a bad guy. Don't just mumble in forums.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: MynameisHeather ()
Date: September 03, 2019 10:07AM

Here is a little poem I wrote about James Swartz, the man who raped me:

Ugly beast.

Disgusting, foul, and pathetic.

Devoid of a soul.

You have no conscience...therefore you have no consciousness...therefore you are spiritually dead.

You have no oil in the lamp... you are darkness.

Please go crawl back into the hideous cave of your empty mind.

You stench.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Traveler99 ()
Date: September 03, 2019 12:11PM

The Bitch Is Back

And too cowardly to admit it.


Heather's right with her poem.

Russian Fatima, as written in the last post, is definitely James Swartz.

The Bitch Is Back.

Probably losing so many (would-be) followers to the Truth is discouraging. The Stench that I call "Squirts" is as devoid of truth and a soul as ever.

I almost laughed when I read, 'all the points made against James Swartz can be countered."

Among the points that you, James Swartz, can't counter are these:

--You killed the dog, and publicly bragged about it.

--You admitted to knowing "Heather" when she was 14, and threatened to share all her "sordid details" if she didn't stop calling you a drugging rapist and a spiritual fake. (How did you as a 40 year-old "guru" come to know this 14 year-old girl so intimately?)

--You lied about your spiritual history, and that can be proved.

--You mistranslated The Bhagavad Gita, even leaving at least one verse totally out. That is a published record.

--You had your first wife work in the sex entertainment industry to support you. You've admitted to her being a stripper, but Heather says it went farther, that she was doing live sex shows on stage. (Either way, what a great guru of a hubby, eh?)

--Your teachings about Advaita Vedanta are distorted and totally focused on the mind, on the mental. You attempt to take "Heart" out of the teachings, and your own writings prove that you have no clue what Awakening, let alone "Enlightenment," really is.

Those points, and others, are facts. They could only be "countered" by outright lies.

Of course, outright lies have been a James Swartz specialty for going on fifty years.

Counter away, James, if you can. But you have to know somewhere in your slimy consciousness that the Truth speaks for itself, and eventually in the Relative does "win out."

Heather speaks the Truth. So do all the persons I interviewed about you and your behaviors over the years.

Do you have any friends at all? Real friends? It seems like after all of the "ex-" that I met (and who almost universally said, "I thought he was my friend, until..." or "He said he was my friend, but then he...") there can't be many, if any at all.

Deluded students and strident followers? Some still, sure. But even most of them are waking up. They're hearing the truth. They hear Heather's claims, and read this forum, and then they watch you a bit more closely...

They watch you more closely, they ask questions (internally and to others, if not to the scary visage you present when "challenged"), and then, perhaps quietly, they leave and don't return.

It's happening, little Ram. We hear from these people. They say, "You were right. Thanks for letting us know..."

Who wants a corrupt, lying, dog-killing, rapist as a (fake) spiritual teacher?

Really? Who?

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

And what's really great is that we don't need a bunch of sites at which to tell the Truth.

We just need two. We correspond with persons, and we send them two links. The first is to this site (Hail to Rick Ross), and the second is to www.reallyguru.com. Along with the links is a note that you, James Swartz, are the "evil inspiration" for the book "Guru? The Story of Heather."

All persons are free to read, to evaluate, to check out all the claims made, and, if they still wish, to attend a "lesson" with James Swartz. Except, they'll never be easy marks for you. They will be looking at you warily. They do. You can see it in their eyes, can't you?

Not so many easy victims any more.

Heather wins. You, as was inevitable, lose. At least by worldly standards, yes? But that is what we are using, because certainly that's all you've ever had available. Thankfully, real teachers--persons who have "got it"-- do exist.

And that, James Swartz, drives you nuts, doesn't it? You'll never be more than a footnote in spiritual teaching history, and that will include the words "false teacher and likely criminal." (That is too polite, but that's the probable wording.)

Sadly, you might not see prison. Except, your own mind is already one, isn't it?

Heather should smile as she goes to sleep in her tropical paradise (thankfully, near no hurricanes) tonight.

Heather, you've won. As one good friend recently said, "James Swartz? As goes anybody taking him remotely seriously as a spiritual teacher, he's 'Dead Man Walking.'"

Enjoy the summer, Heather. For Swartz, it's a hard winter in every way. (And I, for one, couldn't be happier about that.)

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: BeTrue ()
Date: September 03, 2019 12:28PM

Hi RF,

If you are benefiting from JS, then by all means, continue to do so. No one is sharing otherwise here on this forum. I spent many years with JS and benefited greatly from his teaching but there came a point in time when I realized I needed a new teacher on this wondrous path. This is common for many students.

A big part of my need for a change was my perception of JS’ adharmic behavior. I wasn’t alone, there were others who spent many years with JS, people I admire and trust, who felt similarly, some who where the recipients of both JS and Sundari’s quite dramatic and adarmic wrath. I know of at least 6 examples.

In response to a piece of your share, ”I don't see a problem with him putting down other teachers. All of his critcism against them makes sense. He points out problematic teachings. He always says he's not attacking the person, but the teachings. He makes that clear. He also often says that these are good people whose intentions are not always bad, but who are just teaching misleading things.”

First, he does not keep his criticism to just the teachings of others, he often goes after the person too.

A teacher of Advaita Vedanta does not need to spend time on this pursuit because it doesn’t serve and it’s often off topic. My perception, he’s tearing others down to lift himself up, which shows a lack of dharma, character and moksha.

Second, while he claims to be a bulldog for the sampradaya, truth is, the lineage doesn’t need this kind of support. Vedanta has stood the test of time and will continue to do so based upon the strength of the scripture and lineage of skillful and dharmic teachers. Without dharmic teachers, students will not have shraddha (faith) in the teachings.

Several high level endorsed Vedanta teachers in the lineage of Swami Dayananda don’t have a beef with JS. They are grateful for the quantity of students he has brought into the lineage, many of whom now study with more traditional Vedanta teachers following their tenure with JS. Also, they don’t consider him a traditional Vedanta teacher but rather a western philosopher who shares Vedanta.

Finally, based on my time with JS and the information presented on this forum, I do find Heather’s story credible.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: earthquake ()
Date: September 03, 2019 04:29PM

Quote
RF

Russian Fatima Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you everyone for your replies.

Will you interact directly with me here?


Quote
'RF'
>
> I've been into James Swartz for a few years and
> have had nothing but positive experiences. I've
> read his books, listened to his videos, read his
> satsangs, and communicated a little with him and
> ShiningWorld staff via email.

Any absence of anything occurring with one person, or a group of people, does not mean it isn't occurring with another or another cluster of people.


Quote
'RF'
>
> Of course nobody owes it to me to prove anything,
> but when I see such accusations against him, I
> just want to know the truth. That's up to Isvara
> if I get to know the truth about it all or not.

How do you know that Isvara hasnt gave you the truth? And you asking a person claiming to be a child rape victim to come out and go to court, in actually degrading ways, is not you being so neutral as you are now.


Quote
'RF'
> It seems to me that all of the points against
> Swartz in this thread can be countered. Perhaps
> that's why I would love to see him taken to court.
> I'd like to see what both sides have to say.

Heather and Trav have begun to pick this up from their end. Why are you not interacting with my specific replies to you? My point on teaching abuse is what I know about.

You won''t be able to invalidate victims accounts by making a blanket statements that presupposes all statements about him can be countered. That's not countering.

Please dont try to hide who you are be starting to call him 'Swartz'. You dont call him that to his face. Be honest and stop playing games.

Quote
'RF'
>
> I don't see a problem with him putting down other
> teachers. All of his critcism against them makes
> sense. He points out problematic teachings. He
> always says he's not attacking the person, but the
> teachings. He makes that clear. He also often
> says that these are good people whose intentions
> are not always bad, but who are just teaching
> misleading things.

Oky, you think that he is okay to out others down, but when he is treated with the same critique, it invalid straight away. You know that's one common sign of a cult, dont you? I guess this internationally recognizable fact that you are showing, is also invalid.

JS is entitled to say what he wants. As alluded to by BeTrue, the fact he puts everyone else down by implication elevates himself to the top of the pile. It is hard to say how jnani, enlightened people should and should not act, but it is curious that he spends so much time doing this.

Well it would, if one was not familiar with Shningworld teachings. I will speak a little directly to you here...


There is a culture of fear within Shiningworld. This fear comes about from control by certain staff. It permeates from the staff downwards, though how obvious this is begins to be diluted the further from the staff one goes.

It is commonly known that the closer one gets to James and Isabella, that they get burned. My guess is that i'm chatting with the later, though without a doubt both will be reading this thread. As well as other staff and some groupies being involved in some kind of coordination.

Why is there a culture of fear? This is because of some things Shiningworld teaches, and the way they teach. There is much too focus on certain dvaita teachings that are meant to be through out. This is called adhyaropa apavada. I've personally spoke with many disaffected Shiningworld members who's sadhana has included things like Karma Yoga, along with nididhyasana.

For forum members, karma yoga places one still in samsara by virtue that it is the person, the world, and God. Nididhyasana is where you stop identifying as the person and fully identify as Brahman. In this one negates the need for moksha, since that is for the human, and one if supposed to negate the human. So there is no clear leading in the teachings. Since to carry on with karma yoga, human identification, at a stage where you are meant to be negating 'you' are human, is an issue. It is an issue for the person cause enlightenement will free you from the teacher, from all things. And SW dont want peope to leave. They feel threatened by it.

Another example is that there is much too focus on the gunas. In particular sattva. I've spent a lot of time helping former SW students become free of the teachings of Shiningworld, and i'm saying directly to you that what Shiningworld is teaching is causing people problems. I'm not going to validate that here, becuase I dont need to validate it. My role is to help these people.

They come from Shiningworld and think that sattva, a guna, somehow validates what they are. There is not enough time being spent on that vedanta fact that you are actually not affected by any tri-guna. That you, Brahman, are not affected by anything mithya, temporary. And, sattva is maya karanam, an effect of maya. And not effect of maya, validates what you are.

Students are not being taught to be guntitha. Beyond the gunas. And this is a problem cause Shiningworld people then feel very upset and traumatised when the lovely sattva bubble ends.

So why do Shiningworld do this? They teach teachings that make the person feel nice. So they retain the student. Vedanta isn't about the person feeling nice. If it was, that would mean vedanta teaches there is a problem with not feeling nice. Vedanta teaches that suffering is thinking feeling nice validates oneself, and not feeling nice invalidates oneself.

This fear exists because Shiningworld even find it hard to retain any of their teachers. There has to be a question why this is so? And it goes back to the well known fact that anyone who gets close to James and Isabella get burned. And sometimes quite badly.

Quote
'RF'
>
> I find the accusations on this forum difficult to
> believe because James is so full of knowledge that
> he can go on for hours and hours year after year
> talking vedanta.

JS having any knowledge has got little to do with anythng. Else any scholar has validty in teaching vedanta. Yet, thy do not. Scripture teaches to beware of someone who only has great knowledge of scripture.


Quote
'RF'
>
> This is the only forum where I've found anyone
> badmouth him.

And his website is the only one I've found where the people criticizing others are actually not looking at themselves. Snap.

Quote
'RF'

>
> I just think if you all want your accusations to
> have some teeth, you should take him to task and
> bring him to court. Otherwise you could be
> pushing people away from vedanta.

'All' our accusations dont' have to go to court to have any validity. The victims knowing what is true or not is the validity.

Regarding court, if Shiningworld keep libeling people on their website, there are some that are ready to take legal action. It's not appropriate to libel people and use distorted teachings to manipulate others. Like you tried yourself in regard to ARjuna toward Heather. You knew what you were doing. And I'm accusing you of it because many have told me James and Isabella have done this same thing. Don't you know how wrong that is? Have you all lost sight of the negative effect you have had on others.

Regarding pushing people away from Vedanta. I don't know where to being. I work with people coming from places such as Shiningworld, and some are actively refusing not only to be in Vedanta but in anything spiritual. Do you understand how Shiningworld is harming people?


Traumatized people by the nature of being traumatized often feel too traumatized to cope with anything more. Don' Shiningworld get this? Trying to call anyone out will not work. It merely supports a lack of caring or empathy, that is actually curiously missing in such a so called lovely place such as Shiningworld. You yourself are a great ambassador for what is being claimed here. Though as Traveller99 wrote, it seems we're talking to multiple personalities with you.


Quote
'RF'
>
> Many people are very happy to have James in their
> life and to have access, for free, to him and his
> plentiful resources.
>
> I've never heard of such a giving author in my
> life. Usually you read a book and that person is
> inaccessible. On the other hand, James himself is
> accessible and has countless books, articles,
> videos, etc. A lot of it is free.


Then you have bought into the 'special mission' hype. There are many spiritual teachers, and many vedanta teachers who share so many things. And that is fine. But the reason for sharing is great.

I would publicly like to see the financial records for Shiningworld for the last FIVE years please. I will pay for them to be looked at independently. This is because JS has begun doing strange things, such as soliciting money directly in some satsangs for the property in spain.

In ant event, we have to remain focused here. As your comments can muddy the waters. JS providing anything free hardly invalidates what is being claimed about him.



Quote
'RF'
>
> It doesn't seem dharmic to me to be badmouthing
> someone, writing a book that accuses him of rape
> and other things, and not confronting them
> directly.

Can you ask him then to stop badmouthing people and posting it online? For the last ten years.


Quote
'RF'
>
> James takes what could otherwise be really boring
> and brings it to the masses of westerners who
> don't know anything about Hinduism. That's a
> great service. Nobody wants to listen to a bunch
> of stuffy old monks from a foreign country going
> on about ancient texts in an academic manner.

Nobody wants to listen to a bunch of stuff old monks from a foreign country go about texts in an academic manner? HAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHHAHA.

There you go. Elevating Shiningworld to the top of the sampradaya. They are not. Are you forgeting about the missions of Chimaya and Ramakrishna? If we even look at Arsha Vidya, Swami Dayananda. His first ashram was in the USA! And heleft behind a legacy of over 500 teachers. Over half of them are NOT stuffy old monks. But people with jobs, etc.

Shinignworld cant hold on to half a dozen teachers at a time. So please, you are talking nonsense.

You are also in the wrong topic if you think you can try to elevate JS over swami in general. You do know that when JS was claiming to be with Swami Chinmaya that the training was around 8 years for a SWami? And you know that JS himself only claimed to be there 2 years. He was also threw out of teaching under Swami Dayananda's new 3 and half year course (it was then).

JS never completed any training that a Swami would have. Meaning that Swami's have had more indepth training in the sampradaya than JS ever did. You alluding to swami learning academically, is wrong. Do you know now about vedanta pramana? I thought that Shiningworld did.

There is no point in you taking a shot at Swami's teaching ancient texts. You are actually taking a shot at the whole sampradaya here. Is this Shiningworld tryng to position themselves to the status of Swami Dayananda? That won't be occuring haha.

For everyone, SWami Dayananda wsn't beng taught properly by his teacher, Swami Chinmayananda, same teacher as JS. So SWami Dayananda done a major thing and sturctured the teachings more cohesively. JS attended this but got threw out after 2 weeks.



Quote
'RF'

> Also, to imply that James leaves the heart out of
> the teachings is false. He says the heart and
> brain are both important, but he just emphasizes
> that a big problem in modern spirituality is that
> people are overly emotional and are going for
> experiences instead of knowledge. He's addressing
> that imbalance. If you don't want to exercise
> your logic and just want to sit around and
> magically "get it", that's not going to work.

It would be much better if he stuck to what the sampradaya have decided. Since he says he is a part of it. Instead of using the mind and heart, he could say the antakharana and buddhi. Of which is part of the anthakarna. The heart is the gross body, and assimilation of knowledge does not happen in the gross body. It happens in the buddhi, intellect. While it is true that the intellect has been said in some scripture to reside in the heart area, in truth that is a generalization.

Quote
'RF'
>
> I'm just going to guess that some of the people
> here just have some little issue with him or
> someone related to him, so are taking out their
> frustrations here. Maybe you're missing the big
> picture, the value of what he teaches, and how he
> brings so many people out of hopeless situations
> to vedanta.

I'm going to be forthright with you here. How dare you invalidate the effects of James SWartz, Isabella Swartz, some of their teachers, and others, on the effects of people that have been traumatized.

Stretching as far back as Heather, and possibly beyond, right up until recent times many people have been left traumatized.

What JS and IS do is bring people out of hopless situations, and into a new one. In Shiningworld, you do what you are told. In anything to do with your life. And if you dont then you will be humiliated, ostracized, and shunned. You might lose all your friends. You recall i'm telling you I work with these same people that have came from hopeless situations to Shiningworld? And been abused.





Quote
'RF'
>
> Anyway, I'm sure he'll go on teaching and only
> become more popular over time. He's a fighter and
> will be teaching until the day he dies. I've yet
> to have had a single negative experience from him.
> There's a lot I like about him.
>
> So, bring it on, if he's such a bad guy. Don't
> just mumble in forums.

We're taking a leaf out of the great masters book. Since all he does is bitch and moan about nearly every other teacher of vedanta. Surely he's enjoying his online karma.

I would love talk to him om here, I know he is reading this. I throw it back to you, what is he afraid of? Or any high ranking SW. Interact with me on here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Russian Fatima ()
Date: September 03, 2019 06:49PM

Thanks for the replies again.

Russian Fatima, as written in the last post, is definitely James Swartz.

I'm not James Swartz. Saying that I definitely am damages your credibility. It means that you claim things to be true without actually knowing if they are or not.

--You lied about your spiritual history, and that can be proved.

I'm not James Swartz. I'd be happy to have you prove that he lied about his spiritual history. That's why I'm writing here at all. I'm interested in proof.

--You had your first wife work in the sex entertainment industry to support you. You've admitted to her being a stripper, but Heather says it went farther, that she was doing live sex shows on stage. (Either way, what a great guru of a hubby, eh?)

In James's autobiography he mentions his wife stripping. I wondered why he would be OK with that, but gurus can't be expected to be perfect. If he did in fact have people do live sex shows, then I would have to reconsider what I think about him. This is another thing that could be brought to light in court, so that everyone can find out the truth.

Who wants a corrupt, lying, dog-killing, rapist as a (fake) spiritual teacher?

Not me.

And that, James Swartz, drives you nuts, doesn't it? You'll never be more than a footnote in spiritual teaching history, and that will include the words "false teacher and likely criminal." (That is too polite, but that's the probable wording.)

He's taught a lot of great stuff, and pointed people directly to scripture and Swami Chinmayananda and Dayananda, amongst others.

*****

If you are benefiting from JS, then by all means, continue to do so. No one is sharing otherwise here on this forum. I spent many years with JS and benefited greatly from his teaching but there came a point in time when I realized I needed a new teacher on this wondrous path. This is common for many students.

Thank you.

Second, while he claims to be a bulldog for the sampradaya, truth is, the lineage doesn’t need this kind of support. Vedanta has stood the test of time and will continue to do so based upon the strength of the scripture and lineage of skillful and dharmic teachers. Without dharmic teachers, students will not have shraddha (faith) in the teachings.

I think it does. People come to James Swartz from a vast variety of teachers that have no clue about vedanta. They are confused because they haven't gotten anywhere. He helps them understand why by explaining the shortcomings of their teachings.

*****

Will you interact directly with me here?

I'm listening.

Any absence of anything occurring with one person, or a group of people, does not mean it isn't occurring with another or another cluster of people.

That's true.

How do you know that Isvara hasnt gave you the truth? And you asking a person claiming to be a child rape victim to come out and go to court, in actually degrading ways, is not you being so neutral as you are now.

I don't mean to be hurtful here. But there are two sides to this. Heather says it happened. James says it didn't.

You won''t be able to invalidate victims accounts by making a blanket statements that presupposes all statements about him can be countered. That's not countering.

I'm not interested in invalidating anything. And I'm not saying I can personally counter the allegations here and in the book. Of course I can't. I'm not James Swartz. I'm just saying that there are a lot of allegations here and there are two sides to the story. I'd like to know the truth.

Please dont try to hide who you are be starting to call him 'Swartz'. You dont call him that to his face. Be honest and stop playing games.

I'm not playing games. I'm just referring to James Swartz. Can't I use his last name to refer to him? I refer to Donald Trump sometimes as Trump, but I don't know him, and wouldn't say that to his face, perhaps.

There is a culture of fear within Shiningworld. This fear comes about from control by certain staff. It permeates from the staff downwards, though how obvious this is begins to be diluted the further from the staff one goes.

It is commonly known that the closer one gets to James and Isabella, that they get burned. My guess is that i'm chatting with the later, though without a doubt both will be reading this thread. As well as other staff and some groupies being involved in some kind of coordination.


That doesn't sound good. I haven't gotten that close to them. I'm not Isabella either. I hope they are reading this thread, as you think they will be.

Since to carry on with karma yoga, human identification, at a stage where you are meant to be negating 'you' are human, is an issue. It is an issue for the person cause enlightenement will free you from the teacher, from all things. And SW dont want peope to leave. They feel threatened by it.

Another example is that there is much too focus on the gunas. In particular sattva. I've spent a lot of time helping former SW students become free of the teachings of Shiningworld, and i'm saying directly to you that what Shiningworld is teaching is causing people problems. I'm not going to validate that here, becuase I dont need to validate it. My role is to help these people.


I agree with you that there is too much emphases on karma yoga and the gunas, but perhaps that is because those are good teachings for a general audience who still need those teachings. It sounds like you are doing good work.

There you go. Elevating Shiningworld to the top of the sampradaya. They are not. Are you forgeting about the missions of Chimaya and Ramakrishna? If we even look at Arsha Vidya, Swami Dayananda. His first ashram was in the USA! And heleft behind a legacy of over 500 teachers. Over half of them are NOT stuffy old monks. But people with jobs, etc.

I'm not doing that. James Swartz is one of many vedanta teachers in the world. He always says that he is not the authority, but scripture is. He always says it's not his teaching. I'm saying that many people would be afraid of vedanta if it weren't for people like James?/Swartz?/Ramji? I'm not saying that there are stuffy old monks and it's all boring. I'm saying that a lot of people who know nothing about vedanta think of it as being like that, but James help show people the opposite, that it's an amazing tradition that is alive and completely valid today.

I'm going to be forthright with you here. How dare you invalidate the effects of James SWartz, Isabella Swartz, some of their teachers, and others, on the effects of people that have been traumatized.

I just want to know the truth. Instead of reading a book that calls itself "fiction", I'd like for the truth to be exposed. I want to hear both sides of this whole story.

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Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: earthquake ()
Date: September 03, 2019 08:22PM

Quote
'RF'
>
Quote
'Earthquake'
>
> How do you know that Isvara hasnt gave you the
> truth? And you asking a person claiming to be a
> child rape victim to come out and go to court, in
> actually degrading ways, is not you being so
> neutral as you are now.

>
> I don't mean to be hurtful here. But there are
> two sides to this. Heather says it happened.
> James says it didn't.


Yes this is about giving a more rounded view so the person can make better judgments.



Quote
'RF'
>
Quote
'Earthquake'
> You won''t be able to invalidate victims
> accounts by making a blanket statements that
> presupposes all statements about him can be
> countered. That's not countering.

>
> I'm not interested in invalidating anything. And
> I'm not saying I can personally counter the
> allegations here and in the book. Of course I
> can't. I'm not James Swartz. I'm just saying that
> there are a lot of allegations here and there are
> two sides to the story. I'd like to know the
> truth.

Yet, you are being disingenuous again. You are interested in invalidating everything said here. You began with Heather and her ordeal. Then you moved it to making the most crazy statements regarding the sampradaya.

You cant say you can personally counter the allegations here and in the book? Yet you seem to be able to vouch for the validity of JS 'calling out' other teachers. How do you reconcile that if JS says something it is true, yet here you have been showing that anything against him is not? You can;t rewrite your previous posts.




Quote
'RF'
Quote
'Earthquake'
>
> There is a culture of fear within Shiningworld.
> This fear comes about from control by certain
> staff. It permeates from the staff downwards,
> though how obvious this is begins to be diluted
> the further from the staff one goes.
>
> It is commonly known that the closer one gets to
> James and Isabella, that they get burned. My guess
> is that i'm chatting with the later, though
> without a doubt both will be reading this thread.
> As well as other staff and some groupies being
> involved in some kind of coordination.

>
> That doesn't sound good. I haven't gotten that
> close to them. I'm not Isabella either. I hope
> they are reading this thread, as you think they
> will be.


The phraseology you use at time is exactly used by both JS and IS. And we both know they have been following this thread, lol.


Quote
'RF'
Quote
'Earthquake'
>
> Since to carry on with karma yoga, human
> n identification, at a stage where you are meant
> to be negating 'you' are human, is an issue. It is
> an issue for the person cause enlightenement will
> free you from the teacher, from all things. And SW
> dont want peope to leave. They feel threatened by
> it.
>
> Another example is that there is much too focus on
> the gunas. In particular sattva. I've spent a lot
> of time helping former SW students become free of
> the teachings of Shiningworld, and i'm saying
> directly to you that what Shiningworld is teaching
> is causing people problems. I'm not going to
> validate that here, becuase I dont need to
> validate it. My role is to help these people.

>
> I agree with you that there is too much emphases
> on karma yoga and the gunas, but perhaps that is
> because those are good teachings for a general
> audience who still need those teachings. It sounds
> like you are doing good work.

I can understand the attempt at establishing a rapport. I would prefer to have an out and out here with someone coming out as being a high level staff in Shiningworld.

In response to your reply, this is what is meant by adyharopa apavada. Vedanta deliberately teaches things that are superimposition. Things such as maya, creation and samsara. Later these are set aside in favour of advaita, while retaining the usefulness of the appearance of dvaita. In fact, the entire karma kanda, one third of the vedas, is to be set aside, per Shankracharyas teachings on crossing the ocean of samsara.

The salient point comes down to those that 'need' those teachings. If they are not taught that the gunas dont matter, gunatitha, then they are not taught they dont 'need' to remain focused on those teachings. There is no apaavada, de superimposition. So, what happens in modern vedanta such as Shiningworld is that these things become concepts. And that is a problem for enlightenment.

If someone comes out here representing Shiningworld, I will take to task the mountain of erroneous teachings that have unsuspecting people have been subjected to.



Quote
'RF'
Quote
'Earthquake'
>
> There you go. Elevating Shiningworld to the top
> of the sampradaya. They are not. Are you forgeting
> about the missions of Chimaya and Ramakrishna? If
> we even look at Arsha Vidya, Swami Dayananda. His
> first ashram was in the USA! And heleft behind a
> legacy of over 500 teachers. Over half of them are
> NOT stuffy old monks. But people with jobs,
> etc.

>
> I'm not doing that. James Swartz is one of many
> vedanta teachers in the world. He always says
> that he is not the authority, but scripture is. He
> always says it's not his teaching. I'm saying that
> many people would be afraid of vedanta if it
> weren't for people like James?/Swartz?/Ramji? I'm
> not saying that there are stuffy old monks and
> it's all boring. I'm saying that a lot of people
> who know nothing about vedanta think of it as
> being like that, but James help show people the
> opposite, that it's an amazing tradition that is
> alive and completely valid today.

It's genuinely fine that you write is, emotive, dismissive, prejudicial and antagonistic on the one hand. And when it is challenged you will be more benign, understanding, 'critically analyzing' things. There is nothing wrong with that. I mean that.

It does taste like different personalities. And I'm not implying psychosis, and I say that genuinely.

Yes a vedanta teacher does take themselves out of it, in that it is merely scripture speaking. However there are implications to that. This is to safegouard the teacher from praise and judgements, And also to stop the ego getting carried away. There is no importance for a jnani. A teacher is not someone important at all.

JS and IS do feel as if they are important. This is why they think they have the right as teachers to expect and manipulate their students private lives to be in accord with what they want. Even when they behind closed doors are not like it themselves. I've spoken first hand with victims of this spiritual manipulation. They say the same things.

JS likes to exclaim at times when challenged "Do you know who I am? I am a mahatma!" direct speech on purpose. He is of course free to say what he wants, yet it is a curious thing title for one to wear and exercise to a student.

In public JS and IS claim it is not their teachings. Yet in private many have said they attempt to control what is being looked at. I've got the proof of it from a number of people. Whether what I claim on this site goes public or not depends on them really. They are being took to task online, as they take to task so many online, not just vedanta teachers.



Quote
'RF'
Quote
'Earthquake'
>
> I'm going to be forthright with you here. How
> dare you invalidate the effects of James SWartz,
> Isabella Swartz, some of their teachers, and
> others, on the effects of people that have been
> traumatized.

>
> I just want to know the truth. Instead of reading
> a book that calls itself "fiction", I'd like for
> the truth to be exposed. I want to hear both
> sides of this whole story.

You are implying again you havnt heard both sides of Heathers story. Yes, the author decided to make it a book of fiction. The genre matters little in regard to validity, for even biographical and memoir are 'creative non-fiction'.


That's not really importan though. What is important is that you are on this forum, and you have both (i assume) read what the victim, Heather, has previously wrote in this topic. Which is not being claimed as fiction. So how have you not heard both sides?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: September 03, 2019 08:39PM

Russian Fatima wrote:

Quote

So, bring it on, if he's such a bad guy. Don't just mumble in forums.

(Smiling) We are not 'mumbling.'

We'd be worth no one's valuable time if we were mere 'mumblers'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2019 08:39PM by corboy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: Traveler99 ()
Date: September 03, 2019 11:03PM

James Swartz and a "Blaze of Glory"???


Griz wrote. If you have paid attention to this forum you'll know that he's a friend of mine, a highly intelligent and spiritually deep semi-hermit who lives in a cabin in the forest.

White-haired, bearded Griz has paid close attention to my research into James Swartz. I consulted with him early on in my research. He read rough drafts of the book "Guru? The Story of Heather" for our mutual friend Devon Adler.

He writes nothing for weeks, and then sends six messages in three days, the first with weighty comments on the points made in this forum, on things he's heard from other sources regarding James Swartz, and, happily, a lot about other matters, too. In many messages he'll have sections regarding things like new perspectives about the Mandukya Upanishad, or about how his own translatioon of The Ashtavakra Gita is going. Going back to the grim topic of James Swartz, the fact that Griz himself is well-versed in Sanskrit was one reason he very quickly saw Swartz as a fraud. He looked at Swartz's early work as a "translator" and found his English versions of sacred texts to be inaccurate, distorted, and, as he put it, "deliberately falsified."

It was this knowledge of James Swartz as a deliberate fraud and huckster of false teachings that first drew Griz into watching who he sometimes calls "that chump." When I heard of Heather and her allegations, Griz was, as I mentioned, a person I consulted right away (without revealing any details regarding Heather's personal or contact info, of course). Griz's response was, "Based on what I know about Swartz, that girl might well be telling the truth. Find out all you can."

After that, the rest was history, as recounted in this forum and in the book, "Guru? The Story of Heather."

As recounted in an earlier post, Griz recently wrote to me, asking why I was still focused on James Swartz so much. This was partly because to Griz's mind Swartz is a proven criminal and is a teacher of no repute and little consequence, and because he was concerned about me. (He was happy to find I'm doing just fine. A phone call was all it took on a rare moment when Griz was in a place with connectivity.)

This morning I got an e-mail message from Griz. Some parts of its contents follow

------------------------------

From Griz to Trav:

Based on his messages to you two years ago, and on his own writings on his terrible Shining World site, that Russian Fatima in her later posts was definitely Swartz himself, or his clone.

He's reemerged. You must have hurt him badly. The combined effect of the Heather Book and this forum have crunched him where it hurts. It must be that he's not getting as many students, some are leaving or have left, and, crucially to Swartz, this must have hurt his income.

There's another reason he might have "come out," though. Remember, he's an old fart now. (So am I, so I know what it's like.) He's supposed to have a weak heart, and he's around eighty. He has a wife who provides a train-full of stress, and a life totally built on lies and deception which, thanks to Heather and her supporters, is in danger of crumbling.

It could be that he is dying. It could be that he is really, really bitter that in the end he is seen as what he is, a fake and a fraud.

People like him crave adulation and power, and he's losing both even as his body's energy oozes away.

He might be going for a last "Blaze of Glory." It might be that he figures, "If I'm going to check out, then at least I can (further) hurt Heather and her friends before I'm gone."

What else does a person as mean and malicious as James Swartz do? What else would he do?

He's a strange type of Drama Queen, and he's dying. Don't get too wrapped up in his "stuff." You know, in World War II the American army lost a lot of men charging at a Japanese bunker in New Guinea. Hundreds were machine-gunned to death before they took the place. Then, they found out that the Japanese they had been attacking were delighted. They were almost starved to death. They hadn't gotten supplied in months.They were overjoyed to kill as many Americans as possible when if the US troops had just waited two days they all would have been dead, anyway.

Don't be the charging Americans, Trav. You and Heather and your friends, be smart. Swartz is a loser and he's on his way out. Anybody who would go to him now, as I said in my last messages to you, deserves what they get. By this time anyone with a brain is "forewarned and forearmed."

Keep up the good work, but don't get sucked into a Swartz vortex. Don't give him his blaze of glory, which a court trial in his sick mind might be. Be the American Minutemen early in the Revolutionary War. Let him march into oblivion with fewer and fewer supporters around him. It's all that he deserves. Actually more than he deserves.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Is Griz right?

He's not often wrong.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: James Swartz—What is the Truth?
Posted by: MynameisHeather ()
Date: September 04, 2019 02:00AM

Russian Fatima:

Under the stated rules on the Cult Education Institute website:

This forum was established for the purpose of allowing those with concerns about certain groups, leaders and designated topics to express and address those concerns

On this thread people are expressing concerns regarding James Swartz. How are you a part of this conversation? What are your concerns regarding the group Shiningworld and it's founder James Swartz? How are you a part of this conversation?

Under the stated rules on the Cult Education Institute website:

Any person that is here to cause trouble, start arguments and/or intimidate people, will be banned.

I feel that you are attempting to stir doubt into the conversations, and promote Shiningworld. I feel you are trying to intimidate me by repeatedly saying I should take Swartz to court. I feel you are here to cause trouble.

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