by the way, there appears to have some dissent in the now closed Open Forum at the Institute For The Work website?
[www.instituteforthework.com]
Questions about the cockroach story, questions about the books being copied from other books, etc.
So they closed the Open Forum.
Bye bye freedom of thought, and open discussion.

The Work system, can tolerate a certain amout of dissent, as the system itself reverses it.
But it cannot tolerate questions that challenge the foundation of the system, or questions about how it came about. That would disrupt the thought-reform system.
The Work system, is not about human freedom, its an incredibly constrained system, its about constricting human thought in a very directed way.

If there are any more interesting posts in the now closed Open Forum, there still may be a way to get to them from the Google cache, from the advanced search page.
[www.google.com]
(for the domain, enter the link from above, which is this link) [www.instituteforthework.com]
Then just enter in the keywords, press Advanced Search.
and press "CACHED" in the search results.

And then someone could copy an excerpt of any relevant quotes, before they are disappeared for good.
They burned old Byron Katie books, they will certainly delete internet posts they deem dangerous to the BK thought control system.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2009 06:45AM by The Anticult.

TAC writes:
"It might work better as a WARNING to people beforehand, before its too late.
To plant a seed in the mind, and if they go to the LGAT, (please don't go), they see what was said here is accurate. Then the LGAT is not going to be as powerful.
BK knows this, which is why she SWEARS SEMINAR ATTENDEES to secrecy.
Secrets and surprise hold power. Its a common tactic many LGAT's use."

How does BK do that...swear her seminar attendees to secrecy? Did I miss something? I thought THEY PAY BK! As a consumer, if I buy your product, it's mine now. I may have to honor your copyright, but that's it. Elsewhere on this board, I've seen that someone supplied the written paperwork for her school, and there was nothing there about secrecy or nondisclosure. I'd love to see that document! She may be able have employees and the "credentialed" folks sign something, but what leverage does she have with the school attendees...other than her obviously powerful influence?

I agree with JC that merely observing and questioning your own more disruptive and painful thoughts is useful...most people have found a way to do that at least once in their lives even if no one teaches them to; it is a mark of normal intelligence to recognize that not every thought that crosses your mind is a great idea. It's when you give it a title ("The Work") and attribute it to a guru and use caps and quotes, even in your own head, that you're probably under the influence. Maybe folks who eschew BK's organization but defend The Work are really merely claiming the normal human right to think their own thoughts, question their own thoughts, and generally learn by living. When The Work (or other products) is confused with more natural, unengineered, insight, we joust at windmills and defend ourselves from wraiths and illusions. Thanks, JC, for trying to differentiate that for us.

Quote
swampseer
How does BK do that...swear her seminar attendees to secrecy?

From JJ52:

"With many reservations, I attended her 9 day school. We were sworn to secrecy about the events that go on there so as not to "spoil it for others" who would attend in the future. "

[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,53392#msg-53392]http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?4,9147,53392#msg-53392[/url]]

And then someone else (don't have a name for them) said that BK said the following re The Work in their school:

"She said, "It's a peace movement. And it's a secret'."

[[url=http://www.douban.com/group/topic/4372439/]http://www.douban.com/group/topic/4372439/[/url]]

Byron Katie powerfully persuades her attendees to not tell anyone what happened at the seminar.

Most LGAT's do this, and that is where she copied that technique, from the other LGAT's where she got most of her techniques.

This is because pre-knowledge of what is going to happen at the LGAT, makes the persuasion far less powerful. That has been understood for decades.
Notice, I did not say anything about a non-disclosure in this context.
;-)
Its all "voluntary" self-censorship. From the sounds of it, she get's them to make a promise to keep their yappers shut, and almost all of them have, so far. (they would also delete any key details posted in a Byron Katie official forum).
Hey, Byron Katie can get people to pay her around $600 a day, for a seminar where people beg for food on the streets.
Getting people to not tell others about the LGAT seminar methods, is childsplay for someone like Byron Katie. People are handing over their wedding rings, and family heirlooms and laptops, on the spot.

But here's the facts.
[forum.culteducation.com] QUOTE: "We were sworn to secrecy about the events that go on there so as not to "spoil it for others" who would attend in the future."

Another BK supporter, asked many of her BK associates what happened at the BK School seminar, NONE of them would tell her. How sick is that, for one BK supporter, to not tell another BK supporter, what goes on in the seminars? Its almost like a type of sandbagging of your own friends, or setting them up. She had to find out from a recent post.
The irony is that those who are opposing and speaking out against the methods of Byron Katie, are WAY better friends to Byron Katies supporters, than Byron Katie is!! That's the truth.
[authentictimes.blogspot.com]
QUOTE: "The experience I have had with those who have gone to the (Byron Katie) school is a sense of secrecy... and I never knew why. If it is joyous, share it with the world, right? They seem to have a "I know what you do not" energy about them. My thoughts have been, "It's only 4 questions. It's not hard to understand, what am I missing?"
Rick Ross' [forum.culteducation.com] sharing of the school made me feel sad. Maybe that is what I was missing... what had happened to these people while at the school. Cult, fraternity or abusive family; or whatever you call it... anything that asks you to keep secrets for any reason, is going to create separatism with others and suffering in your spirit."
________________________________________

Quote
swampseer
TAC writes:
"It might work better as a WARNING to people beforehand, before its too late.
To plant a seed in the mind, and if they go to the LGAT, (please don't go), they see what was said here is accurate. Then the LGAT is not going to be as powerful.
BK knows this, which is why she SWEARS SEMINAR ATTENDEES to secrecy.
Secrets and surprise hold power. Its a common tactic many LGAT's use."

How does BK do that...swear her seminar attendees to secrecy? Did I miss something? I thought THEY PAY BK! As a consumer, if I buy your product, it's mine now. I may have to honor your copyright, but that's it. Elsewhere on this board, I've seen that someone supplied the written paperwork for her school, and there was nothing there about secrecy or nondisclosure. I'd love to see that document! She may be able have employees and the "credentialed" folks sign something, but what leverage does she have with the school attendees...other than her obviously powerful influence?

if anyone wants to see an example of almost completely patterned BK thought, check this one out.
She posted under the posting name Jennifer Ironstone [familyrun.ning.com]

Its typical in many of these thought-reform systems, that certain people get totally enmeshed into it, and literally start to mimic almost the exact language patterns of the leader.
Her language is an almost exact clone of Byron Katie. Fasten your seatbelt.

On a more blunt note, her "analysis" of the Byron Katie LGAT, is either complete lack of any knowledge of an LGAT, or some type of scripted apologetics for BKI, or a both.
It reads like propaganda, with links to the BKI page, and " I love how clear this description of The School is, which is on the front page of the school's information".
ha ha ha! as if. Clear? Its a smokescreen to cover their butts.

honestly, I can't even read the entire thing right now, the huge post by "jennifer" at this link defending the Work LGAT seminar, and using all of the BK-speak.
[familyrun.ning.com]
It appears someone named "Rain" called her out, then deleted her post.

But the complete lack of any knowledge of even the basics of an LGAT seminar, is disturbing to say the least. Considering she is running a website group about it!
The Work of Byron Katie and Unschooling

But honestly, that level of almost exact verbal patterning a verbally mimicry, that is so disturbing...can't put it into words..

PS: just saw she is a Facilitator of the Work. so obviously, she has a horse in the race.

but that long post of hers, defending the BK LGAT, that will really trip you out. One of the scariest things I've read in a long time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2009 09:19AM by The Anticult.

that link above, really shows how incredibly powerful these thought-reform systems can be.
Just think, being able to design a thought-reform system, that can colonize a person's entire language system, their thought patterns, their emotional disconnect, their entire identity.

Of course, not everyone goes into it that deeply. Only people who have that certain vulnerability for a particular guru, and suggestibility for their style and methods.

But it reminds one of the unbelievable power of these systems.
And the care that has gone into setting them up.

There have been reports, that Byron Katie asks for written letters by those she is getting close to and recruiting for positions, telling her about their former Gurus, etc. You can just see her, sitting there, carefully analyzing each person's individual patterns, making notes, keeping a file.
She knows that each person's unconscious is totally UNIQUE, and this is what she was addressing in the Washing Machine Induction, where she is trying to "open" the machine.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Your unconscious, is the washing machine, and she is the blind safe-cracker, who can't "read your language". All very common themes in this area, embedded into this story.
[forum.culteducation.com]

Scroll down to "Spring 2009 Retreat Workshops" -- "The Work. . .": [www.uuwomenandreligion.blogspot.com]

I sent a note to the Center managers with links to this forum topic and the next one, suggesting that the opinions might help with full disclosure for participants.


Judy
[www.windofchanges.org]

Judy,

here is the link to RELEASE OF LIABILITY, THE SCHOOL FOR THE WORK WITH BYRON KATIE
[forum.culteducation.com]

and of course the Participant Reports [forum.culteducation.com]

Everyone should carefully study a printed copy of these releases in well in advance. Even before a mere "discussion" about The Work, as that will serve as an enrollment and sales platform.
There are disclaimers about injuries, and death.
Participants can be videotaped, and then those videos can be sold for profit, FOREVER, in perpetuity.

Notice how the release is not posted anywhere for people to read?
the Work Questions, are NOT a neutral process, they are directive and lead people into the Byron Katie system.

Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell, make Tubby and Moe from Gentle Wind Project, look like small potatoes...very dangerous for vulnerable people, they are looking for total, lifelong commitment.

Quote
The Anticult
by the way, there appears to have some dissent in the now closed Open Forum at the Institute For The Work website?
[www.instituteforthework.com]
Questions about the cockroach story, questions about the books being copied from other books, etc.
So they closed the Open Forum. Bye bye freedom of thought, and open discussion.

An interesting bit of information came up, regarding Byron Katie’s no longer Open Forum. As we know, the very last post on the Forum was by Carol Skolnick, on April 6th. It was about BK and Stephen Mitchell having copied their ‘Tao’-book from ‘Grace Unfolding’ by Greg Johanson and Ronald Kurtz. As it turns out, the penultimate entry to the Forum seems to have been a piece on Stephen Mitchell’s true Valentine’s Story being adulterous in spirit. However romantic and serene the story is being portrayed now, truth is that both Katie and Stephen were in actual fact two-timing when they first hooked up. Byron Katie has a long history of rewriting her books. It will be interesting to see whether her ‘Katie-ism’ “I’m a lover of the truth” will be included in forthcoming editions.

On the Release of Liability form it says:

"The School is an educational program. It is not therapeutic in design, intent or methodology and is not a substitute for medical treatment, psychotherapy, or any health program, regardless of what you may have heard from anyone."

However, on every page of thework.com, there is the following endorsement purportedly from Stanford University pain syndrome experts. So if anyone were to get the impression that "The School of the Work" is therapeutic in intent, there is a good chance that perception is coming from their own website. Here is the original letter: [www.thework.com]

"In the new Revised 5th Edition of A Headache in the Pelvis (pp.326]330), that came out in May 2008, Stanford psychologist David Wise Ph.D. and neurourologist Rodney Anderson, M.D. refer to Albert Ellis' Rational]Emotive Therapy and Aaron Beck's Cognitive Therapy and then write (in their italics):

"The best form of Cognitive Therapy is, in our opinion, is offered in the work of Byron Katie who provides an approach to disarming catastrophic thinking by means of a process that one can do oneself. This is the approach that we recommend."

They then describe the procedure adding: "Our description of this process is rarely sufficient to become proficient at it. We discuss this method in our monthly 6]day clinics. Information specifically about this cognitive therapy work can be found at www.thework.org and the books of Byron Katie."

Wise and Anderson are practical "in the trenches" therapists who work daily with severe pelvic pain and other chronic syndromes. They recommended Byron Katie's method already in the 4th edition of the book (pp. 298]301)."

They recommend that not only is this thought reform method (convincing people not to believe their own thoughts) the best form of cognitive therapy but suggest that it's helpful in pain management.

On one hand The Work Foundation/Byron Katie International promote "The Work" as therapy, and on the other it is not even intended as therapy. That's clearly false advertising.

In the cult I was in they teach that if you don't want anything (as well as all the other lies they teach like karma) you can be happy. This is basically the same thing Katie is doing by blaming yourself and not arguing with reality i.e. if you don't have anything that is what you should have. How could you ever be disappointed if you don't ever want anything? How can pain bother you if you don't care that you are in pain? This is detachment.

I wonder if getting hit by a stick when you have a thought will be next on Dr. David Wise's endorsement list? Strictly by request of course.