Byron Katie (the Work) Sociopaths blame the victim
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 12:03AM

There is enormous excellent research out there, how sociopaths blame their victims, and make themselves blameless.
In their minds, they often perceive their victims as being "out to get them", so they have to "get them before they get you", as they say.
Most perpetrators who are convicted, literally try to portray THEMSELVES as the victims, even though they are the perpetrator.
Some of them believe it to a degree, many of them don't really believe it, but simply use it as a manipulation tactic.

The advanced perpetrator and sociopath, will try to make themselves appear utterly blameless, and this will be reflected in their "contracts" which say they are not responsible for anything, and are 100% blameless.
If anything goes wrong, its never even a shared blame, to them, 100% of the blame always goes to the victim.
It does match completely with the sociopathic personality disorders.

Here is a general comment about Sociopaths. There is a lot of good research in this subject, which can be very helpful in understanding what has happened.


By Dr Joseph M Carver, PhD | 3 March 2009
Our resident clinical psychologists offer replies to reader questions submitted anonymously to Ask the Psychologist.

Reader’s Question
Q:When a sociopath tells a lie, do they know it’s a lie or do they believe the lie?

Our Clinical Psychologist’s Reply
A:A Sociopath, also known as an Antisocial Personality Disorder, is a member of a diagnostic group known as ‘Personality Disorders‘ (see my introduction to personality disorders on this website). Without question, an Antisocial Personality is well aware they are telling a lie and in fact, lie very purposefully in an attempt to manipulate others, deny personal responsibility, escape the consequences of their behavior, or place them at some advantage. Telling a lie is always an option for an Antisocial Personality, especially when their behavior has caused them some social or personal difficulties.

Sadly, Antisocial and criminal personalities lie as a lifestyle. Their lies range from daily excuses and promises to complex schemes and scams that are based on a series of lies and deceptions. Some criminals (antisocial personalities) develop a set of lies/deceptions to con and steal from others, as we’ve seen in the media recently. Criminals develop false identities, companies, money schemes, check forgeries, etc. In my experience, Antisocial Personalities have no remorse, empathy, guilt, or concern for the victims of their lies: their personal situation is their only priority.

An Antisocial Personality doesn’t believe his or her lies — but that doesn’t bother them. It’s actually worse than that. They are only concerned that their victim believes the lie and for that reason, if they suspect you aren’t totally accepting their current lie, they will offer additional lies and promises until you are convinced.
A physically abusive Antisocial Personality will actually blame his victim for the assault and if the victim doesn’t accept the lie, they will quickly use another lying strategy such as a promise to enter therapy, stop drinking, etc. When confronted, their major goal is to escape the consequences of their behavior — nothing else really matters. Once the lie works to their benefit, such as avoiding arrest or marital separation, they return to their previous behavior.

Antisocial Personalities are not delusional and do not live in a fantasy world. They live in their world, where everyone around them is a potential victim. They fully realize they are telling a lie. They also know they will tell another lie if their first lie is discovered. Honest individuals have a personal investment in their word and promise, linking their sense of self-worth and self-esteem with their honesty. An Antisocial Personality has a personal investment in their survival and selfish demands — with no investment in their given word or promises. If you don’t like their first lie…wait a few minutes and you’ll receive another.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: April 18, 2009 12:19AM

It is normal to appreciate a technique from which one has benefitted.

But, IMO, people dont just seem to appreciate The Work for its purported benefits.

They seem protective of The Work, even when they express concerns about BK.

Being appreciative is not the same as being protective.

If you were capable of benefitting from The Work--you might have had the same benefits or perhaps even greater benefits from some other technique, one not produced & marketed by someone who, Janaki's reports, has withdrawn her earlier publications from circulation and who who, some allege, used material from Keyes and A Course in Miracles.

If you're capable of benefitting from The Work, you are not incurable or beyond salvation.

You can benefit from other tools, as well. Tools that dont have secrecy or mystique attached.

but I think part of the appeal of The Work is not merely the method, even though people seem to think the method is what turned them around.

The Work offers something no ethical therapist can ever offer:

An ethical therapist cannot give you a social venue or a tribe--therapists by the rules of thier profession, are supposed to protect and enhance your autonomy, and its up to YOU to do the work of creating your own community.

But this is a lonely world and lots of us are busy and plugged into cell phones and iPods, making it hard to achieve face to face relatedness.

The Work is presented as a mere tool, but covertly, it has become a point of contact, a tribe of people speaking the same language.

You share the jargon and the BK Cockroach and you're no longer alone anymore. You're part of a community.

That is powerful stuff.

Reading a book about genuine cognitive behavioral therapy gives a useful set of tools, but it doesnt give that same sense of community.

Folks, we wouldnt be sounding tough here if there were not reports that people are not being given information they need to make informed free choices.

And we would not be speaking in such radical anticult manner had it not been for the way primary source texts are being disappeared.

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy was not created by people who withdrew their earlier publications from circulation. Quite the contrary.

Real science doenst 'disappear' its past publications at all. There's no mystique, no family secrets.

But cognitive behavioral therapy cannot by itself give you a community to belong to, and maybe thats why it doesnt seem as appealing as The Work.

CBT is merely a set of tools and its up to us to use the tools to create our own communities.

The lesson of Passover, launched by the original Four Questions is that going from imprisonment to freedom is hard work.

One of the most human things about the Passover story is that when the people escaped Egypt and were free at last, but in the desert, they bitched to Moses about the hardships of camping. They missed the tasty food they'd had back in Egypt, in the days when they were slaves of Pharaoh.

Its tempting, when trying to escape bondage, to try to hang on to something worthwhile
from the days of bondage.

To escape the oppression of Pharaoh (BK?), but hang onto the cozy feelings one had when in bodage by trying to hang onto The Work...created by Pharoah as bait to attract people to go to school in Egypt.

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Byron Katie (the Work) is not neutral or Socratic, money talks, Duh!
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 12:52AM

some folks seem to believe the PR that came from Byron Katie. That The Work Questions, are somehow neutral, and Socratic, and seperate from Byron Katie.
But they are not.
They are not Socratic, and they are not neutral in the least. And they are not like cognitive therapy.
That is PR advertising.
They are a string of leading questions, based on some false premises.

They are a very carefully planned out "thought system" for getting inside people's thinking patterns, and belief systems. It starts out with an improper, biased question, which starts the ball rolling down the hill from there.

So one would be wise to think/study very carefully about how the Work Questions were designed, and how they operate on people's minds.
Its a system of permissive persuasion, you start with a seemingly basic question, and then you are lead through a thought process, that leads you to where the questions are designed to take you.
They are a series of leading questions, and one needs to figure out where they are leading you, and why.

also, there are some people who may think they feel better in the short term, but that could have nothing to do with the questions, and could simply be based on the Confirmation Bias. []
What if the questions are actually harmful? They are harmful, as they lead to excessive self-blame, which literally creates excessive guilt and depression.

Coaching bias:
The other problem, is that many regular people are making serious money doing "coaching" with these so-called questions. How many people are going to question something that brings in that kind of income?
Answer, almost none.
There is this guy who does a certain popular new agey "technique" which he doesn't really believe, he now thinks its a placebo, but since he is established doing it, he gets $200 a session, so he keeps doing it! Duh! He rationalizes it to himself by saying the placebo helps people.
So who is going to give up making hundreds of dollars a day doing The Work? What else are they going to do as a part-time work at home business?
So anyone who uses the Questions for income, will find things like paying their mortgage and kids dental bills, tend to bias one's perceptions! Duh!
The testimonials from those who use coaching the questions for a source of income, are obviously not credible, even if they think they are sincere. Of course, many of them on the internet, only care about the cash. another Duh!

talk about the Tao of Duh! (we should write the Tao of Duh, about all the obvious tricks of the New Age trade...hmmm)

There are many hidden biases in the questions themselves, in how they are presented, and in who uses them, and for what purpose. This all needs to be studied and explained.

How to the Byron Katie Questions work?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2009 01:01AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) is not neutral or Socratic, money talks, Duh!
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 01:09AM

The Real Tao of Duh!

Duh! #1: Those who selleth thou unproven unregistered coaching services for $200+ a session, will tend to tell you the coaching works perfectly, and that thou should haveth several more sessions a week for life. Duh!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) is not neutral or Socratic, money talks, Duh!
Posted by: yasmin ()
Date: April 18, 2009 01:30AM

tao of duh:
If you spend a lot of time practicing believing that evil things are okay,and you shouldn't do anything to judge or change them,
then in time you will become the kind of person who can stand and watch while evil is done, and think that it is okay.

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The Real Tao of Duh! (Byron Katie edition)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 01:51AM

The Real Tao of Duh! [Byron Katie edition]

Duh! #17: the only people who say there is no mafia, are the mafia. The most advanced persuasion technique, is to say there is no such thing as advanced persuasion techniques.

Duh! #3: those who lie, tend to lie about their lying. Imagine that...

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Re: The Real Tao of Duh! [Byron Katie edition]
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 02:16AM

The Real Tao of Duh! [Byron Katie edition]

Duh! #23: In the new age LGAT world, if you buy a service/product, that has off-label ingredients in it that are harmful to you, sold with deceptive advertising, they try to make you believe that its not the fault of the producer of the product/service, but that its your fault. []
Just like if you buy porcessed meat contaminated at the factory, then its your fault for not seeing the invisible bacteria that harms you. Not.

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Byron Katie (the Work) and blog advertising, question the questions
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 07:21AM

There are quite a number of blogs who are seemingly trying to counter the criticism that is coming out about the Byron Katie seminars.

If anyone is inside any of the Byron Katie forums, or gets the email newsletters, etc, and if there are any "suggestions" in there about how people can "move the work" by making blog posts, and things of that nature, it would be helpful to get that info.

Media Note:
Someone in the media, or at a live event, needs to ask BK when she is talking about "not believing her thoughts"...if she believes the thoughts written in her RELEASE OF LIABILITY []
If would be fascinating to watch her tap-dance around that one, in a live video interview.
In the middle of the interview, they could just read some sentences from that paper, and ask her if she believes those thoughts. Talk about a checkmate.

Get BK to write "I don't believe these thoughts" on her contract, and have her sign it.
No? thought not. She believes all these thoughts 100%. []

The irony of course, is that Byron Katie believes her thoughts far more than anyone posting questions and criticisms. Those who question the questions, are not believing her thoughts.
But Byron Katie literally has a fanatical belief in her own thoughts, that is why she has a big company which does nothing but promote and sell her thoughts.

Of course, the key is to RATE the level of accurate belief in a thought, not just disbelieve all of them. If you disbelieve all your thoughts, you couldn't cope.
To be healthy, we need to RATE the accuracy of each thought/belief, based on the evidence. Each thought can be rated for accuracy, from 1%-99%.

But BK just preaches releasing all your thoughts, as a way to losen up your belief system, so then she can put HER thoughts in your head.

Its ironic no one has ever asked BK, why she professes such an absolutist belief in her 4 Questions, and Turnaround, when in the next breath she says she doesn't believe her thoughts.
Of course she believes her thoughts, if anything, she is an extreme absolutist, who refuses to even allow her primary beliefs and thoughts to be questioned.

and people do follow her certitude, as they always do...
...below is a comment from a BK YouTube video... Its interesting how they link all these people together...That's the only accurate thing about it!

But this is BK, very calmly laying her words and stories out there, sitting on her perch, seemingly wearing something looking like a Sari...she is very much playing the eastern guru in this one, showing some emotion...she seems to show empathy for those who have hurt others, but has no empathy for their victims. The perp is the victim.
Again, what is probably most important is the symbolism of it, to her audience. To get them to feel unhealthy sympathy for the perpetrator, and self-hate toward the victim.
It is amazing that people fall for these types of word games.
kensho3 (1 year ago) "Also: A Course in Miracles, Adyashanti, Tony Parsons, Gangaji, Papaji, Babaji, Ramana Maharshi, Mooji, Adi Da, Osho. There's a lot of love out there, people."

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2009 07:34AM by The Anticult.

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Byron Katie, Mary Poppins, P.L Travers, Gurdjieff The Work,
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: April 18, 2009 08:53AM

check this out.
(apparently the Mary Poppins books are much less fluffy than the movie)

Michael Katz, Byron Katie's partner...said BK was like Mary Poppins. []
Mary Poppins was created by writer P. L. Travers.
P. L. Travers (Pamela Travers) was deeply influenced by Gurdjieff. []
Gurdjieff method was called The Work.
"He is most notable for introducing what some refer to as "The Work".

QUOTE from article by P.L. Travers: []
"The Work, as his method came to be called, had, as it very soon appeared, been only too accurately named..."
By 1924 The Work was sufficiently well established for Gurdjieff to set out on the first of his trips to the United States...
Those who knew the Teacher could gather only by rumour and hearsay that there were other Gurdjieff’s—the healer of psychic illnesses, the one who could cure alcoholism, Gurdjieff the business man, and the Gurdjieff known as “Monsieur Bonbon,” an old eccentric gentleman whose sole mission in life, it appeared, was to dispense candy to local cronies and children..."

George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff (1877–1949)
by P. L. Travers
from Man, Myth and Magic: Encyclopedia of the Supernatural 12 vol., (London: Purnell, 1970-1971)
This essay was published by Traditional Studies Press, Toronto: 1973, as a ten page pamphlet

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Re: Byron Katie, Mary Poppins, P.L Travers, Gurdjieff The Work,
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: April 18, 2009 09:09AM

Whoa, that's amazing, Anticult.

That sure could be where she got the term "The Work", and then added on "of Byron Katie".

Check this out:

[[url=]Mary Poppins Recut[/url]]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/18/2009 09:11AM by helpme2times.

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