That stuff about Steve Sashen is really pertinent to this thread. Back when I was immersed in my 'quest for enlightenment' via Advaita, I was Googling the terms and ended up on Sashen's website. After reading most of his Anit-Guru Blog entries, I pretty much found myself at ease with his sense of humor and glib writing style. I'm also a sucker for sarcasm, or at least used to be. Bottom line is, after nearly spending some money on one of the products he hawks, and trying his free sample of the Advanced Meditation Course, I followed his link to The Work. So, basically folks, I got involved with buying Katie's books and doing the Work on the Web all through the reading of the information on the Steve Sashen website. Luckily, my lack of fulfillment via these materials didn't lead to seminars (which was always my bent, until that time) but rather led me to Google her name and the Work itself. That is how I got to this thread and how I began getting truly 'enlightened'.

I do have a point: In my opinion, people like Sashen are equally as dangerous as Katie, because they seduce you and then take you by the hand to Katie's house, all prepped and ready to be fleeced by someone a lot more savvy than Steve Sashen. Although, I should add that Steve Sashen does have some expertise; I am sure that he has studied the techniques of Internet marketing very, very well. I was scammed by more than one scheme that promised riches of one type or another, and ended up studying their techniques meticulously, to avoid repeating my mistakes in that area. I even went so far as to pay money to one company to learn the techniques themselves. Tricky stuff, too. Multi-layered, NLP loaded, image-laden double talk designed to get your checkbook out NOW, "before this offer ends".

qd

Quote
corboy
why does she demand that we can only build our lives --the house of thought--on what is absolutely true?

What I see, is that BK convinces people there is nothing that is absolutely true. Which is actually correct.
But then she makes the dangerous wild leap into then NOTHING is true at all, they are all just stories. Which is false.
Some things are more accurate than others.

Her marketing is another in-joke, about "finding out the truth", when in reality she is selling there is no such thing as "truth".
To her, the truth, is that there is no such thing is truth.
A deep paradox. (break out the weed).

Well, she does this, to literally dislodge people from their 'reality', and replace with the Katie-universe.
In this sense, is basically the exact same thing Werner Erhard did..."everything is meaningless".

Well, they are both wrong, and they know it. Its just a tactic for rescripting people's beliefs. They literally re-engineer people's beliefs.
Even the bloody CIA studied exactly how to do that to people, in the shortest time, to help modify the beliefs of people, using false documents, etc.

but the entire argument as far as LGAT's and "truth" is literally a pointless "gimmick".
Its not even philosophy 101.
Some things are more accurate than others, based on the available evidence and testing.
Is it true, or absolutely true, is literally a meaningless question.
Its like asking...is a square round?

Its easy to be a Zen master...
Its is like the roundess of the square, grasshopper...the truth is that there is no truth...

The only reality...is my LGAT contracts, and my $5,000 fee, paid in advance, no refunds.
Actually, that is the only absolute truth in the universe. No refunds.

(transfered post from the thread)
Byron Katie and "The Work" Participant Reports
[forum.culteducation.com]

In other areas, its been stated this board/thread is probably too blunt for most BK people. (but many of them read it in secret! They ALL read Janakis blog, for example...)
;-)

It might work better as a WARNING to people beforehand, before its too late.
To plant a seed in the mind, and if they go to the LGAT, (please don't go), they see what was said here is accurate. Then the LGAT is not going to be as powerful.
BK knows this, which is why she SWEARS SEMINAR ATTENDEES to secrecy.
Secrets and surprise hold power. Its a common tactic many LGAT's use.

As a matter of fact, the recent Guruphiliac thread, they said the BK LGAT seminar was even WORSE than this forum has said!
It is worse, much worse.
Who the hell knows what is going on in the higher more secret levels, in the inner circle, where its all secret?
Its going to be far worse, and they are signed to non-disclosures, and can't speak out.

So hopefully some moderate threads and venues will appear, where current BK people can talk.
But here's the problem....

The BK forums forbid any real criticism, so that's closed.

Any moderate BK forum will be swarmed by some very very savvy BK blogger types, and they will literally put those folks minds back into the BK washing machine. We've seen it here.
They will then even go there to recruit more clients!
If they know who they are, they WILL get them on the phone if they can, its happened already.

The only reason this forum isn't overrun with BK apologists engineering mass-confusion, is due to the moderation.

And if a person buys into the BK system, its a closed-loop checkmate.
You literally CANNOT escape the BK system, by using the BK system. Try it. Its a checkmate.
So then what?

You have to rip the mofucker out by its goddamn roots, and burn it!!
:-)
And I use profanity on purpose, as its so deeply entrenched in people's minds, you have to take an axe to the roots.
BK uses far worse profanities, in the Korn songs, etc. She does that to get DEEP into the psyche.

BK uses very powerful methods. Slow or fast indocrination, probably doesn't matter.
But Byron Katie prefers INSTANT CONVERSION, that is for sure. She's an expert, and even gathers WRITTEN INFORMATION beforehand from people she is recruiting. That is a reported fact, from several sources.

So maybe there will be some more middling BK threads?
But will they ever work at dislodging the BK thought reform system?
Honesty is the best policy.

hey, way back in the thread, it was said by someone...cough cough...that Stephen Sashen was pretty clearly playing a "mole" role for BKI.
Every single one of these groups have many people like that.

They have the direct promoters, people like Carol Skolnick, who's entire website is Byron Katie.
They even have people who seem to have no connection to the group, who act as apologists.

But better ways to sell and promote, are to have people who appear to have some distance, but also refer and recruit.
Someone like Stephen Sashen, appears to have gone quite high in the BKI food-chain.
He appears to be a Byron Katie lifer. If anyone can find anything critical he's said about Byron Katie, please post the link.

But I bet he's referred MORE people to Byron Katie than anyone.
He seems low-key, the anti-guru silliness, he uses comedy, he seems objective...
But he's not. He's a very skilled salesperson, the best salespeople seem like casual dudes, just providing referrals. That is advanced sales. The most advanced sales are being the clients "friend". They teach that stuff very specifically.

So he makes good money doing the BK work as a coach, and he refers a lot of people to the BKI LGAT, where he would get a nice commission for each referral. They could get $500 for each 9 Day LGAT direct-referral.

Notice he posts in similar places to the other BKI people.
Or he may also be a BK true believer for life, in the deepest sense, which is very possible.

Again, can anyone find anything critical he's ever said about Byron Katie?
Or anything at all about her, and her methods? He seems to be very vague, but somehow people who talk to him, find themselves enrolling in BK work?
wow, what a coincidence...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2009 12:16AM by The Anticult.

dudes...wassup....
cool, since we all nice and chilled, lets have some fun...and get your wallet delightened by the anti-guru...

Stephen Sashen holds "gatherings" 2x a month, to do The Work.
He does private sessions of Da Work.

Here's the deal with this Sashen dude.
He went up pretty high in the BKI system, and was smart enough to realize BKI was a fucking madhouse. And he had other interests as well, Kabblahahaha, MLM Acai Berries, etc.

He was also smart enough, not to get roped into the BKI certification thing, that is a joke, you are trapped.

So he figures, he'll get the best of both worlds. Strike out on his own, and make his own cash, with his own low-key sales approach. (Does he have a link on his website to his Acai Berry MLM scamola?)
He probably has some type of a deal, with Byron Katie or BKI, to allow him to do the BK work, as long as there are some referrals, or some type of payback scheme.

Its amazing that people would find his chilled-down sales approach alluring.
I guess for those who have studied advanced influence and sales, they know that "making the client feel like your friend" is actually the highest level of salesmanship.
So when some dude is trying to sell "coaching" for rates higher than a shrink, he ain't some casual surfer dude.
If time permits, a closer look at his text, might be revealing.
but there are powerful signs already, like when he says...don't be fooled by the simplicity of The Work.

yeah, don't be fooled by the underselling super-casual buddy MLM berry system neither!
but seriously, if confronted, I can tell you exactly what he would do. Nothing.
He's clever, he knows you can't sell sand to a sandbox.
He just focusses on actual sales prospects.

clearly, his goal is to become a well-known anti-guru anti-new age, NewAge Guru.
he also has some training in comedy too right? comedy can also be used as a tool.

Does he even mention the "personality" of Byron Katie, or just The Work? that is very telling.

I found this interesting tidbit re Steven Sashen at his buddy Yanik Silver's "Sure Fire Marketing" site. It's in hot sheet #14, dated October 21, 2005:

Also, I’m passing on a little “help wanted” ad for my friend, Steve Sashen

Can you write a better headline than this?
(or know someone who can?)
Net-savvy entrepreneur looking for marketing
partner in niche venture. For details -
marketingpartner@sashen.com

Quote from Yanik Silver: "Of course to me - everything is marketing."

[[url=http://www.surefiremarketing.com/hotsheet/hotsheet14.html]Yanik Silver's Business Tools and Resources - Hot Sheet 14[/url]]

Steven Sashen's Amazon.com profile:

I'm the creator of the Quantum Wealth class at www.quantumwealth.com... here's a description that's *full* of buzzwords. If you want me to explain them, drop me a line:

Quantum Wealth uses your relationship to money as the focus of a post-psychological, non-dual transformation methodology that produces immediate, lasting and tangible results in both your outer and inner financial worlds.

Or, the simple version is this: which way do you think you'd be more effective at making any change in your life: peaceful or stressful?

We've tried the stressful ways. Quantum Wealth shows you the peaceful (and fun) way.

()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()

Some people help you think out of the box. Steven Sashen is known for 'helping people think outside the planet where boxes exist.' In the 'Inner' world, Steven has taught with transformational visionaries Byron Katie and Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks. In addition to leading Quantum Wealth workshops, he maintains a private practice sharing The Work and Integrated Kabbalistic Healing. He's a teacher in a 400-year-old Zen Archery lineage and has practiced Vipassana meditation for over 20 years. In the 'Outer' world, Steven founded a multi-million dollar software company, is an internationally known Internet marketing consultant and co-founded the world's most successful online Network Marketing company. Steven is also an award-winning writer and television personality.

Note: it's spelled "Steven", not "Stephen". Search engines!

First, that is an interesting name...Yank Silver. no thanks! (I know there's an i)

That Steven Sashen text, is very sleazy.
Not saying he is a "bad person" but his techniques are quite slimey.
For example...

"Quantum Wealth uses your relationship to money as the focus of a post-psychological, non-dual transformation methodology that produces immediate, lasting and tangible results in both your outer and inner financial worlds. "

He puts out that "post-psychological" meaningless psychobabbel drivel, and then tells you to contact him to explain it.
Again, very clever. He knows than one-on-one, he can build rapport, adapt, attune.

his final sentence, is not even close to accurate.
Which software company?
Which online marketing company?
Which awards for writing?
Where has he appeared on TV?

That reads like some really bad infomercial.

But notice how he doesn't seem to EVER talk about Byron Katie, other than a general salespitch, and offer to "coach" you. Again, very clever. Keep it all private and secret.

Steven Sashen is just a quite clever salesman. That appears to be his main skill.

"The Work" definitely works...

If you forget everything Byron Katie has said, rewrite the questions and reinvent how you apply them to a given situation. Have you noticed that Katie apologists say the work is a great tool but suggest you use it casually? That is not actually what the work is though. They know it's BS.

If her followers ask *can I absolutely know it is true?* on most of what BK says they won't be able to verify it. She likes to throw around the word God for example.

I hereby declare that no Byron Katie fan can use the word God unless they give me three reasons why it's true.

In fact, i'll give you $1000 US if you can prove that God, in any shape or form, exists. If you don't take this offer you have to shut up about God via Byron Katie's philosophy.