Pilot, I definitely feel differently since you have shared the link re Janaki's experiences with Byron Katie, which I did not know about. Can you understand why I might have felt suspicious?

I urge people to read Janaki's very detailed tale of her long-term (more than a decade) experience with Byron Katie. Once again, here is a link to it:

[[url=http://janakisstory.wordpress.com/]Byron Katie and Janaki[/url]]

In Chapter 22, Janaki says that she heard someone say that BK had been reading Ken Keyes while she was in rehab, and that his "Inner Work" is at times almost identical to "The Work".

Unfortunately the link Janaki provides for Ken Keyes did not work when I clicked on it.

There is so much helpful info in Janaki's story. Here is an excerpt, from Chapter 27:

Quote

It paints a picture of a woman who is never unhappy, who has no negative emotions left and who can deal with any situation in a peaceful way, because she is the living example of Loving What Is. I have heard Katie say several times (on stage), that she hasn’t been angry ever since her awakening experience. To prove this she will ask Stephen who sits on the front row, ‘honey, have you ever seen me angry?’. His answer is always the same, ‘No, I haven’t’.

In private, I have rarely seen Katie go in and make turnarounds. Not with any of the feedback she ever gave me, or with any of the feedback I ever gave her. If I would give her feedback, she would immediately call me on the turnaround and want examples.

She told me in her feedback that there was a smelly flavor in the way I compare myself to other trainers, yet she says The School is unlike any other school on the planet. Is this not a comparison?

I have seen Katie get irritated and angry at people. I have seen her stressed out. I have seen how she doesn’t stay in her business; every time she gave me feedback, she went into mine. I have heard her defend, justify and explain. I have often seen her as someone who goes into a story and doesn’t question it. I have experienced how she believes the stories reported back to her by her staff members and doesn’t question those stories, or checks with the person involved.

I agree with all you say about BK. Very educational and is true from what I'm reading on this thread. I trust everyones knowhow here. Trolls deserve to be spoken out against if they are rudely intrusive. I just feel insecure and don't want to personally be distrusted on here because I didn't know what the hell I was doing reading Byron's book in the first place. That's all that I'm trying to say I guess. But all is OK because you all have done your homework which makes it easier on me because I don't have to reinvent the wheel trying to figure out Byron K. Thanks,
FF

There are some mind-games being played here. Say one thing in one post, and the opposite in the next post. (road-rage, for example).
Of course people are sensitive, they are sensitive to repeated attempts by Byron Katie devotees trying to screw with their minds! Some people in this thread have been burned by Byron Katie and her BKI Clone-Army already.

Also, Pilot:

tThis thread about Byron Katie's techniques is NOT about YOU...ok? Its not all about "Pilot".
So what if you haven't been screwed badly by a cult? That means you are a Superior human. Amazing.
Its not about you. Its about the people who are on their knees before Byron Katie, and exactly how Byron Katie engineers that. So please then stop talking about how powerful you are, and point out more specific techniques Byron Katie is using on people in her seminars and in person. That is what this thread is about.

Do you think some of the major critics of Byron Katie, have given Byron Katie one penny? Of course not, she is a blatant scam artist, to the trained eye. BLATANT, its all here in black and white.
The point is to point out her specific techniques, so regular untrained people can maybe LEARN about these techniques she uses.
She targets people who have no training in these methods of persuasion, she goes for the soft-targets.

(there is a person who has been with Katie for over a decade, who is a pilot...search google for Byron Katie and pilot. [www.sedonacreativelife.com]
Not saying that is the same person, of course, but that website is interesting to look at anyway, as its another BK fanatic salesperson. They are into Sedona Method as well, which Byron Katie copied, as also proven in this thread).

When it comes to Byron Katie and her people, people need to be very cautious. Why? An experienced Byron Katie devotee won't try to defend Byron Katie. As a matter of fact, they will agree with criticisms of Byron Katie, as since you believe it, its true for you.
They will even criticize her harshly as well. That's all part of the process.

But eventually, it will boil down to them saying..."hey just try The Work, its free, it can't hurt".
Or they will do The Work in a covert manner on people, just in conversation, even using humor.

That is the TRAP. Its identical to someone saying..."hey just try the free Scientology Stress Test". (which is a trap to lure people into taking Scientology courses, they have an entire system set-up).

No, don't do The Work, don't try it. That is a TRAP. Analyze it, study it, look into Byron Katie's history. Don't ever blindly "do" any technique, that is a trap. Werner Erhard did the exact same thing.

Statements about "taking your power back" are nonsense, in this context.
What does that mean, "take your power back"?
That is EXACTLY what this thread is about!
By UNDERSTANDING and explaining EXACTLY what Byron Katie is doing to people, that is how you take your POWER back. You want POWER? Put a trained person in this area who is prepared on live TV with Byron Katie for 1 hour.

There are endless members of the BKI Clone-Army, who have stated this thread is about powerless whining, which is FALSE. Its a lie, its a fraud. That is because they have NEVER READ the thread. Its about the exact opposite. Its about showing exactly what Byron Katie is doing, and how. Its about taking action, and knowledge. Knowledge is power.

The average Byron Katie salesperson is terrified their audience will start to read threads like this. It will kill their sales systems, which are now a big internet machine, making MILLIONS a MONTH.
Byron Katie is more skilled than that, and knows how to deal with objections. But even she will not appear in any media with a real journalist who asks real questions. Just New Age fluff.

But the smaller BK people, who might be in debt to Byron Katie for $150,000, for courses, they are worried. They fear the power of critical analysis.
They fear the empowerment of people to be able to see what is going on. They are shitting bricks, so to speak. They fear the power of the people to think and analyze.


For example, there is that new link with some long story about Byron Katie. [janakisstory.wordpress.com] Not sure where it is going yet, but its starts with Byron Katie doing pure hypnotic inductions on this person, and then turning this person into her personal slave.
If that person knew anything about trance-work, she would have seen Byron Katie putting her into a trance, tunnel vision and all. Again, can't tell yet where this story is going, but so far, is cult Guru manipulation 101, love-bomb, then reject them, etc. All standard stuff.

Byron Katie targets and finds a vulnerable submissive person, then manipulates her into personal unpaid servitude in Amsterdam, and keeps her in line with various psychological tactics and emotional abuse.
Its not magic. Its all technique.
Lets hope she spills the beans on Byron Katie by the end of the story...We'll see..
But this person could have avoided their nightmare decades of Byron Katie servitude with some basic Knowledge, like what is in this thread.

Quote
The Anticult
For example, there is that new link with some long story about Byron Katie. [janakisstory.wordpress.com] Not sure where it is going yet, but its starts with Byron Katie doing pure hypnotic inductions on this person, and then turning this person into her personal slave.
If that person knew anything about trance-work, she would have seen Byron Katie putting her into a trance, tunnel vision and all. Again, can't tell yet where this story is going, but so far, is cult Guru manipulation 101, love-bomb, then reject them, etc. All standard stuff.

Byron Katie targets and finds a vulnerable submissive person, then manipulates her into personal unpaid servitude in Amsterdam, and keeps her in line with various psychological tactics and emotional abuse.
Its not magic. Its all technique.
Lets hope she spills the beans on Byron Katie by the end of the story...We'll see..
But this person could have avoided their nightmare decades of Byron Katie servitude with some basic Knowledge, like what is in this thread.

Having finished reading the entire thing, I can say that Janaki's story is a mixed bag.

She definitely criticizes Byron Katie in great detail AND rightfully points out that The Work cannot "end suffering" because nothing can do that. Unfortunately she continues to promote The Work, albeit minus the personality of BK.

yes, people are a tad skeptical on this thread! That is a good thing!
Why?
Because Byron Katie and her main-people are no joke. Their job is re-engineering reality in your brain, and doing it quickly, without you even knowing what is going on.

It has taken some time for the truth about Byron Katie to come out, as it is masked so well. But it will come out, eventually.

So people are suspicious, and that is good. These modern cults are extremely sophisticated, and extremely dangerous. People can be hooked in MINUTES.
Katie pre-frames them for the Love-Bombing, and it works. Read the first part of that new story from a BK insider. She had her in seconds. That is no accident. That is SKILL, she reads people non-verbally, gets info from her friend, etc. Its all deliberate.

So yes, be skeptical, be suspicious a bit. Be careful out there.
Demand facts and objective evidence, ask questions. Don't be duped by humor and a casual presentation. These modern cults are truly amazing these days.
They are like mental quicksand, or a spider's web. Very dangerous for vulnerable people. It can wreck a person's life.

Talk about Jim Jones Jonestown and Byron Katie....and suicide and assisted suicide, which is illegal. (except maybe in Amsterdam?)
SEE BELOW...

By the way, the "story" does not make sense. It was probably told as a Teaching Story for the Byron Katie followers..with the message...DEVOTE YOUR ENTIRE LIFE TO ME.

But taken to a literal extreme, that is a group suicide. If Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell committed public suicide at a 'death party' as stated, how many of her closest followers would follow her? Many of them just might drink the death cocktail too.

But again, it doesn't make much sense. More likely this is just a "story" to get the deepest possible loyalty to Byron Katie..."I would die for her!!". This commands complete loyalty and free labor.

(by the way, there should be some back-ups made of that blog for reference, as if its not approved by Byron Katie, it won't last, it might be offline in hours, once its linked too).

_____________________________________
QUOTE:
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]

"She told me that she and Stephen had made a pact with each other. She said that if ever either one of them would attract a disease that would involve a slow dying process, they would throw a party, invite all their close friends and both drink a death cocktail.

At the time, I was still in the devotee mode, agreeing to everything she said and cheering it. But I remember the thoughts that followed later. I happen to think in pictures, so in my mind’s eye, the whole scene flashed before me. I thought, I wonder who gets to clean up the mess, after you are both dead? Would people be seen as accessory, if they know a suicide is going to take place and they don’t try to stop it? How are we going to explain to the world that both the authors of a book called Loving What Is, just committed suicide and one of them was perfectly healthy?"
___________________________________

Another quote from the Janaki-Byron Katie saga:

Quote

After these emails, I spoke with my friend from the Muktananda days, the one who first introduced me to Katie, and I told him what had happened between Katie and me. He said, "And she got most of The Work from the Course in Miracles, because they were all reading that in the halfway house, that is where the turnarounds come from. She also told us that she was reading books by Ken Keyes when she was at the halfway house."


I had never heard that name before and I became curious. I Googled him, and learned that Ken Keyes had a personal growth center in the 70's in Oregon. I found some quotes by him on the internet, that could have been Katie quotes. Quotes like, "A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world; everyone you meet is your mirror." and "Everyone and everything around you is your teacher." and "I have everything I need to enjoy my here and now-unless I am letting my consciousness be dominated by demands and expectations based on the dead past or the imagined future".

I became more curious and ordered some of his books. I was amazed. He called his process The Inner Work. He worked with worksheets that consist of 6 uncompleted sentences. I found a list of all the questions that are on the worksheet from The Work: I want, I need, he should, what I never want to happen again. I also found some of the questions, especially the 3rd question was literal, including the answers that are given to that question. I found the turnarounds, exactly the way they are done in The Work. And there was a lot more.

I scanned everything that is relevant to The Work into a pdf document and sent it to Katie. I emailed her: "Recently someone told me that you were reading books by Ken Keyes Jr., while you were at the halfway house. Having read several of his books, I put together this document, since it is highly confusing to me. The confusing part being that you always told us that you never had any teachers, or read any books, and the fact that it says on your bio on your website that: "Katie's process of self-inquiry, called The Work, didn't develop from this experience; she says that it woke up with her, as her, that February morning in 1986. Would you please explain this?"

Katie replied with, "As to the Ken Keyes pages, I love that there are so many ways of saying the same thing as we all journey through our own experiences. I think the big difference is the four questions and turnarounds. That is The Work."

Stephen also wrote me a note, "P.S. from Stephen: Dear Janaki, My goodness! Anyone who knows Katie knows that she doesn't read books. Furthermore, even if someone had been with her at the halfway house, even if that someone had given her homework assignments from Ken Keyes, how could he know that she actually read the books? Was he hiding underneath Katie's bed? It must be painful to believe that Katie is a liar and a rip-off artist. In addition to the Keyes books, I could find a hundred books on spirituality or cognitive psychology where there are echoes of Katie's words. And I could find even clearer echoes in the words of the Buddha. But nowhere are there the four questions and turnarounds, which are The Work. If you can't see Katie's astounding originality from comparing the passages that you sent in the pdf, then you're not seeing very clearly, in my opinion.

Very surprised, very amused, and with love, Stephen"

I answered him with, Hi Stephen, Painful? No. Confused? Yes. That is why I asked. If it were just echoes, I probably wouldn't be confused. Liar and rip-off artist are your words, not mine. I love that you are amused. Janaki

I let Katie know exactly who had given me the Ken Keyes information. After that, I received an email from my friend, saying that upon reflecting, he and his wife could not confirm that Katie had actually told them she read the Ken Keyes books. But that back in the early days, they kept pointing out the similarities to her, between Keyes' work and her own.

I never got a response to my answers to her email.

hmm, this reminds one of the Story of doing the laundry in Amsterdam.

Stuffing undeclared cash into personal suitcases being brought into the USA?


QUOTE:
___________________________________
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
Chapter 11
Money

More than anything, people ask me where all the money goes. Apparently a lot of people do the math, and they wonder why BKI is not transparent about it, never publicly displaying their financial reports.

And then there is the cash. Every single year that she comes to Europe, she collects vast amounts of cash that are given for the donation programs, or tickets that are paid for at the door. The cash is used for expenses, to pay American staff that works in the Schools, who used to earn $ 2000 per School. Often money was given to staff and friends to take home to the States for her. Some would get up to $ 10.000 to put into their suitcases, that being the amount you are allowed to carry on your person to the U.S. without having to declare it.
____________________________________

Yes, as mentioned before, BK can revoke your "certification" any time she feels like it, no reason given. She holds absolute power.
So she "edits" the profiles too?

Read this thread, and save $100,000.

__________________________________
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]

Chapter 16
Certification Program

When Katie first started the certification program, she immediately certified 20 people, and put them on her website with their pictures and profiles. I was amongst the first 20. When I sent in my profile, Katie told Ralf that she wanted to change my profile, and ‘make it more real’. ...

She also removed my reference to The Working Coach training.

She apparently edits all profiles before they are posted. People who are certified and have also completed The Working Coach training are not allowed to mention that in their profiles.

In fact, I never received the actual certificate, even though my profile was on the website. Later I learned that it says on the certificate: This license is non transferrable, must be renewed annually and may be revoked at any time. The thought that comes up here is, it may be revoked at any time, without giving you any reason or explanation?!?!
_____________________________________-

This passage shows what a conscious manipulator Stephen Mitchell is, trying to pretend that Byron Katie doesn't read books, what a joke, what a scam. Just bold-faced BS, right in your face..

Read this thread, and it shows how in the suppressed Byron Katie book, A CRY IN THE DESERT, they talk in detail about how Byron Katie studied A Course In Miracles, and many other programs and methods. That is why they killed that book.
The PDF of the book A Cry In The Desert is online as a PDF, and can be downloaded, anyone can check for themselves.

He even admits that someone at the Halfway House had given her Ken Keyes material. Whoops!
Interesting words Stephen Mitchell chose...

...liar and rip-off artist.

Quote
helpme2times
Another quote from the Janaki-Byron Katie saga:

Quote

After these emails, I spoke with my friend from the Muktananda days, the one who first introduced me to Katie, and I told him what had happened between Katie and me. He said, "And she got most of The Work from the Course in Miracles, because they were all reading that in the halfway house, that is where the turnarounds come from. She also told us that she was reading books by Ken Keyes when she was at the halfway house."


I had never heard that name before and I became curious. I Googled him, and learned that Ken Keyes had a personal growth center in the 70's in Oregon. I found some quotes by him on the internet, that could have been Katie quotes. Quotes like, "A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world; everyone you meet is your mirror." and "Everyone and everything around you is your teacher." and "I have everything I need to enjoy my here and now-unless I am letting my consciousness be dominated by demands and expectations based on the dead past or the imagined future".

I became more curious and ordered some of his books. I was amazed. He called his process The Inner Work. He worked with worksheets that consist of 6 uncompleted sentences. I found a list of all the questions that are on the worksheet from The Work: I want, I need, he should, what I never want to happen again. I also found some of the questions, especially the 3rd question was literal, including the answers that are given to that question. I found the turnarounds, exactly the way they are done in The Work. And there was a lot more.

I scanned everything that is relevant to The Work into a pdf document and sent it to Katie. I emailed her: "Recently someone told me that you were reading books by Ken Keyes Jr., while you were at the halfway house. Having read several of his books, I put together this document, since it is highly confusing to me. The confusing part being that you always told us that you never had any teachers, or read any books, and the fact that it says on your bio on your website that: "Katie's process of self-inquiry, called The Work, didn't develop from this experience; she says that it woke up with her, as her, that February morning in 1986. Would you please explain this?"

Katie replied with, "As to the Ken Keyes pages, I love that there are so many ways of saying the same thing as we all journey through our own experiences. I think the big difference is the four questions and turnarounds. That is The Work."

Stephen also wrote me a note, "P.S. from Stephen: Dear Janaki, My goodness! Anyone who knows Katie knows that she doesn't read books. Furthermore, even if someone had been with her at the halfway house, even if that someone had given her homework assignments from Ken Keyes, how could he know that she actually read the books? Was he hiding underneath Katie's bed? It must be painful to believe that Katie is a liar and a rip-off artist. In addition to the Keyes books, I could find a hundred books on spirituality or cognitive psychology where there are echoes of Katie's words. And I could find even clearer echoes in the words of the Buddha. But nowhere are there the four questions and turnarounds, which are The Work. If you can't see Katie's astounding originality from comparing the passages that you sent in the pdf, then you're not seeing very clearly, in my opinion.

Very surprised, very amused, and with love, Stephen"

I answered him with, Hi Stephen, Painful? No. Confused? Yes. That is why I asked. If it were just echoes, I probably wouldn't be confused. Liar and rip-off artist are your words, not mine. I love that you are amused. Janaki

I let Katie know exactly who had given me the Ken Keyes information. After that, I received an email from my friend, saying that upon reflecting, he and his wife could not confirm that Katie had actually told them she read the Ken Keyes books. But that back in the early days, they kept pointing out the similarities to her, between Keyes' work and her own.

I never got a response to my answers to her email.