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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 05:08PM by The Anticult.

Below is Pilot's original post in this thread. Seems like he/she now sees Byron Katie rather differently.

Quote
Pilot
Hey!!

I just found this forum after reading the Guruphiliac Byron Katie thread! All I can say is WOW, you guys have done your homework!! Excellent information on here.

I looked into BK because I have a friend that is into her and it kind of started to irritate me, the whole slavish devotion thing. My litmus test for any path is fairly simple:

1 does it cost money?
2 Does it induce guilt?
3 Does it suggest you bring others into the fold?

One out of 3 might be ok, but it looks like BKI hit the trifecta. My friend became seriously tedious and controlling with the work-he even mentioned something once about if he had enough $$ he would insist all his friends go to the school, and he would pay for it. UGH, That really got to me, they somehow destroy free will and any respect you might have for the free will of others. I never liked the work, thought it was superficial and nothing but trickery, but he claimed that it helped him. Then he would engage the work while having a disagreement, anytime someone was behaving in a way that made him uncomfortable, he would "do the work" on them, without their knowledge. Oh but for their own good of course.

How on earth could this ever be considered ok? I guess when you have a guru who is as nutty as BK, you can get away with anything. I am so glad that ex BKers spoke up here, it was very educational and will hopefully help anyone who thinks they need to follow someone else. A lot of these gurus say"go within"-and then ask you to shell out to them. I don't have the capacity to follow much, I like "take what you want and leave the rest. "

The spiritual path is not one that ends and you "get it" and you can then stop growing and learning. If they say they can end suffering, well, BS!! Choose free will. It may not be easy but at least it's yours.

Best to all
Pilot

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 08:48PM by helpme2times.

Quote
The Anticult
It is fascinating how the Byron Katie folks do target people who are considering walking away from The Work. There have been examples where people who wrote emails, got back confusing emails from Stephen Mitchell.

When people are backing away from Byron Katie, then tend to go from idealizing her, to demonizing her, which is a normal response, of course.
Its very clear that Byron Katie is able to get people to actually believe almost anything she wants them to believe about her. Many of her followers literally believe she is some type of "divine" being, or whatever. You see her engineering that in her CD's and books, usually when she says..."others say I am _____".

In Byron Katie's blog on her (alleged) bout with cancer, Jon Willis actually writes in with this question (a year ago from today):

Katie,

Can you say or share a bit more about this sentence?

"Anyway, my husband and my sons cannot be upset, my daughter cannot be upset, they really don’t know what they are supposed to feel and until they do, they don’t."

What do you mean by they cannot be upset?

With thanks,

Jon

Posted by Jon Willis | March 17, 2008 3:05 PM

Seems like Jon Willis might have been going through doubts about "The Work". He put forth a legitimate question regarding a very bizarre statement from BK.

But BK does not answer him, at least not publicly.

Maybe 'Pilot' is trolling here so he or she can get promoted to a higher rank in some abusive group after being kicked off of RR.com

I was once on a listserve that discussed another LGAT and people who had trolled here on RR.com talked of how they'd been kicked off and made themselves look like innocent martyrs.

There may be another thing.

If someone is encouraging folks to troll here and then be banned from RR.com for trolling, they may be rendered less likely to return to RR.com later on to tell how they were abused in their LGAT for fear their earlier history of trolling has made them totally unwelcome.

A hero pilot has been in the news lately, the dude who handled his plane in a competant manner in the Hudson river.

Wonder if thats why Pilot is using this handle.

Or trying to STEER this discussion away from a topic that the folks in BK world do not want discussed?

Note: if you once were banned for trolling and are now sorry you did this, you can probably solve matters nicely be welcomed back if you e-mail Mr Ross privately and tell him what you went through.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 10:46PM by corboy.

"Pilot" first joined us on 02/20/09, so that is pretty recent. Perhaps this person would like to explain why they have essentially reversed their original denouncement of Byron Katie?

Quote
corboy
Maybe 'Pilot' is trolling here so he or she can get promoted to a higher rank in some abusive group after being kicked off of RR.com

Pilot's first post here said, "I looked into BK because I have a friend that is into her..."

That right there smells funny to me. Especially after reading Pilot's second post.

Sorry to offend, but wow you all got me all wrong-
No, I think Byron Katie is very creepy. I do not troll, I stated an opinion about personal responsibility re LGATs, and I don't use the work for road rage, or anything for that matter. I stand by my view that people need to stop giving their power away to gurus, if you get hurt, you have to accept some of the blame, sure the big bad gurus are at fault, they take advantage of the gullible. It's a business. What this forum does to expose this is great IMO. Maybe I don't get it. I just commented on what I saw that went on when the jon willis guy showed up, it looked like he made the critics on this board look cold and abusive compared to all the "love" he had to offer-a neat trick, and jj fell for it. that is on her. What would make you think I was a troll???

Like I said, maybe I'm not getting it.

Its typical for trolls to talk about how people give their power away to gurus.

Ever hear of 'bounded choice?'

This distracts our attention to the way certain entrepreneurs target people already abused, who for various reasons are unlikely to seek help from licensed professionals.

Journalist John Horgan referred some years ago to 'The Enlightenment Industry' in his book, Rational Mysticism.

I think its time for us to identify something I would term 'The Inspiration Industry'.

Its time to learn to question inspiration, because it has become a sacred cow.

When people are suffering and depressed, it seems hideous and cruel to question some person or story that has an inspirational impact.

But the problem with inspiration is, it can be generated from something truthful.

But inspiration can also be generated from something that didnt really happen, thats just a lovely story--or worse, a story crafted by someone very, very smart about the uses of NLP and archetypes that tickle the deep structure of a vulnerable target audience.

So again folks, we need to examine the Inspiration Industry.

Its an industry based on mass marketing, that isnt spiriutal at all, because US style mass marketing is ANTI Spiritual, based on a capitalist imperialistic model driven by craving, driven by greed and fear--and driven by craving to emulate someone whose public image is being artfully dangled in every possible media venue.

So far, one of the few who has done so has been Steve Salerno, over on his Shambook blog.

Remember, BK has been in the Inspiration Industry for a long time, and two of her books are now hard to find--Cry in the Desert and Losing the Moon.

That Cockroach story is just the current commercial for BK product.

We're supposed to forget there were other, earlier commericals, and that she's had her own 'show' for a much longer time than the cockroach ever lived.

She's not a healer. BK's just a current product on the Inspiration Industry.

Trying to insert her commercial into our brains and computers so that we will advertise her to all our friends and corrupt clean venues like 12 step meetings by turning those into word of mouth PR channels for someone who has not even accepted the responsiblity of getting a clinical license and carrying malpractice insurance--something legions of qualified therapists do--and who dont whine about it.

As much as I hated doing my homework when I was a kid, I love it now. Particularly when it pertains to serious subjects such as mind control and manipulation. That being said:

Perhaps folks remember a poster with the handle blue sky; this poster was banned on Feb. 18th after becoming more and more intense with the exact same rhetoric as Pilot. Interestingly, blue sky came into this forum with a very endearing post; much like Pilot. After Pilot's last post (and avoidance of a simple question), I'm a little surprised that RR hasn't come in with a final warning. I think helpme2times gave him enough rope to hang himself. I quote:

Quote
helpme2times
Perhaps this person would like to explain why they have essentially reversed their original denouncement of Byron Katie?

Pilot's original post (just two days after blue sky being banned) included this statement:

Quote
Pilot
That really got to me, they somehow destroy free will...

'Destroy free will'? I'm with helpme2times; just answer to that statement of yours only, and the obvious (to most of us) reversal you exhibited. Of course you can't, so you'll just back-pedal and "explain" your position. This is blue sky all over again. If you aren't blue sky, or a clone of blue sky, then you are certainly picking up the gamut and running with it in the exact same style. I think everyone here knows precisely what I think, in this case.

Quote
corboy
A hero pilot has been in the news lately, the dude who handled his plane in a competant manner in the Hudson river.

Very perceptive, corboy. I think it's been covered a lot how the names are carefully "designed" for effect.

In that blue sky was banned for pummeling this thread with apologizing for his/her apologies, and basically muddying the waters, I wonder what response Pilot will come up with. No matter. This thread is about people sharing their stories and information for the benefit of others. What it isn't, and RR is pretty clear about this, is a place for people to give subjective opinions over and over again at the peril of folks who came here NOT to hear selfish rhetoric. It's been suggested that someone start their own thread, if they have a pet opinion that they won't let go of. The Anticult made at least two things damn clear: He has no patience for this type of crap, and the opinion in question is wrong and dangerous. I concur with the lack of patience, although I promised to endeavor to be civil. Right now, it's everything I can do.

qd

'bluesky'


'Pilot'

Pilots fly in or through (the) bluesky.

Things 'happen' out of the clear bluesky

FYI, no they do not. Nothing happens out of the clear blue sky. Everything has a cause, even the most mysteriously inspirational mood.

There is no such thing as a mood coming from nowhere, no such thing as something coming from nothing.

Its all cause and effect. If anything seems to happen without cause, its not magic.

Its just a chain of cause and effect we have not identified yet.

FYI there is a haunting song on the Pink Floyd 'The Wall' album, entitled 'Good Bye Blue Sky'.

Nice match with 'Losing the Moon'.

Pilots also fly warplanes with bombs.

So we need to keep our search lights on, just as they did in major cities throughout the UK during the Blitz.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2009 10:16PM by corboy.