Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Ken Keyes
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 19, 2009 10:28AM
Finally, someone being honest about Byron Katie, and using some common sense!
Notice Stephen Mitchell is a completely unreliable source for any information whatsoever.
QUOTE:
_______________________________________
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
I have heard Katie say several times (on stage), that she hasn’t been angry ever since her awakening experience. To prove this she will ask Stephen who sits on the front row, ‘honey, have you ever seen me angry?’. His answer is always the same, ‘No, I haven’t’.
In private, I have rarely seen Katie go in and make turnarounds. Not with any of the feedback she ever gave me, or with any of the feedback I ever gave her. If I would give her feedback, she would immediately call me on the turnaround and want examples.
She told me in her feedback that there was a smelly flavor in the way I compare myself to other trainers, yet she says The School is unlike any other school on the planet. Is this not a comparison?
I have seen Katie get irritated and angry at people. I have seen her stressed out. I have seen how she doesn’t stay in her business; every time she gave me feedback, she went into mine. I have heard her defend, justify and explain. I have often seen her as someone who goes into a story and doesn’t question it. I have experienced how she believes the stories reported back to her by her staff members and doesn’t question those stories, or checks with the person involved.
___________________________________
Notice Stephen Mitchell is a completely unreliable source for any information whatsoever.
QUOTE:
_______________________________________
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
I have heard Katie say several times (on stage), that she hasn’t been angry ever since her awakening experience. To prove this she will ask Stephen who sits on the front row, ‘honey, have you ever seen me angry?’. His answer is always the same, ‘No, I haven’t’.
In private, I have rarely seen Katie go in and make turnarounds. Not with any of the feedback she ever gave me, or with any of the feedback I ever gave her. If I would give her feedback, she would immediately call me on the turnaround and want examples.
She told me in her feedback that there was a smelly flavor in the way I compare myself to other trainers, yet she says The School is unlike any other school on the planet. Is this not a comparison?
I have seen Katie get irritated and angry at people. I have seen her stressed out. I have seen how she doesn’t stay in her business; every time she gave me feedback, she went into mine. I have heard her defend, justify and explain. I have often seen her as someone who goes into a story and doesn’t question it. I have experienced how she believes the stories reported back to her by her staff members and doesn’t question those stories, or checks with the person involved.
___________________________________
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Ken Keyes, and halfway-house Hannah
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 19, 2009 10:41AM
It says below the therapist Byron Katie used to work with back in the halfway house, mentioned in A Cry In The Desert, was someone named Hannah.
Hannah.
Someone in the media needs to interview the therapist Hannah from the halfway-house.
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
"In Cry in the desert, there is a story where Katie would say to Paul, ‘take me to my people’. He would then drive her to Los Angeles, to the area where homeless people used to hang out. Later I learned that she was in fact looking for a lady therapist that she knew from the halfway house. I also heard that this lady lost her job at the halfway house over Katie and was now homeless and living on the streets. This last piece is just hearsay, and I can’t know that this is actually true. The story has it that Katie would then stay with her for a couple of days before Paul would collect her again. During the first Certification training in the Netherlands, this therapist came and attended. There was a little buzz going around the staff, because it was quite unusual to have people around from Katie’s past. At the end of the Certification Katie stood on the stage. All the participants were standing in half a circle, waiting for their names to be called (it was quite small in those days, only 60 participants). When your name was called, you would walk up to the stage and Katie would hand you your certificate. When Hannah’s name was called, she remained where she was. She looked at Katie and said, ‘Katie, I want you to step down to me’. Katie said, ‘Hannah, I already have’. Hannah just stood there and didn’t say anything. Katie did the same, but finally stepped down from the stage and handed her the certificate. Only Katie and Hannah know what the reason was for this behavior."
_________________________________
Hannah.
Someone in the media needs to interview the therapist Hannah from the halfway-house.
_______________________________Quote
The Anticult
Read this thread, and it shows how in the suppressed Byron Katie book, A CRY IN THE DESERT, they talk in detail about how Byron Katie studied A Course In Miracles, and many other programs and methods. That is why they killed that book.
The PDF of the book A Cry In The Desert is online as a PDF, and can be downloaded, anyone can check for themselves.
He even admits that someone at the Halfway House had given her Ken Keyes material. Whoops!
Interesting words Stephen Mitchell chose...
...liar and rip-off artist.
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
"In Cry in the desert, there is a story where Katie would say to Paul, ‘take me to my people’. He would then drive her to Los Angeles, to the area where homeless people used to hang out. Later I learned that she was in fact looking for a lady therapist that she knew from the halfway house. I also heard that this lady lost her job at the halfway house over Katie and was now homeless and living on the streets. This last piece is just hearsay, and I can’t know that this is actually true. The story has it that Katie would then stay with her for a couple of days before Paul would collect her again. During the first Certification training in the Netherlands, this therapist came and attended. There was a little buzz going around the staff, because it was quite unusual to have people around from Katie’s past. At the end of the Certification Katie stood on the stage. All the participants were standing in half a circle, waiting for their names to be called (it was quite small in those days, only 60 participants). When your name was called, you would walk up to the stage and Katie would hand you your certificate. When Hannah’s name was called, she remained where she was. She looked at Katie and said, ‘Katie, I want you to step down to me’. Katie said, ‘Hannah, I already have’. Hannah just stood there and didn’t say anything. Katie did the same, but finally stepped down from the stage and handed her the certificate. Only Katie and Hannah know what the reason was for this behavior."
_________________________________
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Ken Keyes, and Guru Transference
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 19, 2009 11:38AM
That blog also says...(in more flowery words)...
Chapter 36 [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
- Byron Katie kicks people who criticize her out of her seminars. (that is meant as a lesson to others...open your mouth too far, and you are kicked out)
- deceptive advertising costs one guy $20,000, for the Turnaround House
- Doing The Work makes people feel more SHAME and GUILT. It has to, its all about too much self-blame, which is personalization, which creates shame and guilt! That has been proven many times.
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
Notice at the link above, how Katie brought in Muktananda during her first meeting. Now maybe someone told Katie about Muktananda and her before the meeting, or maybe she found out on the spot. Then Katie DELIBERATELY TRANSFERED all of the person's associations from the previous Guru, to her. RIGHT IN THAT INSTANT.
That is a deliberate transference technique, and the exact same thing happened to Carol Skolnick, for example. In NLP-hypnosis, there are deliberate techniques to FUSE the associations from one thing to another. But NLP or not, Katie did it in seconds, by just stepping into the Imago and placement in the person's psyche. Watch out for that. That is Guru-Hopping.
That is a deliberate technique used by Byron Katie, that can be engineered, precisely, in the moment, by people who know what they are doing.
Chapter 36 [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
- Byron Katie kicks people who criticize her out of her seminars. (that is meant as a lesson to others...open your mouth too far, and you are kicked out)
- deceptive advertising costs one guy $20,000, for the Turnaround House
- Doing The Work makes people feel more SHAME and GUILT. It has to, its all about too much self-blame, which is personalization, which creates shame and guilt! That has been proven many times.
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
Notice at the link above, how Katie brought in Muktananda during her first meeting. Now maybe someone told Katie about Muktananda and her before the meeting, or maybe she found out on the spot. Then Katie DELIBERATELY TRANSFERED all of the person's associations from the previous Guru, to her. RIGHT IN THAT INSTANT.
That is a deliberate transference technique, and the exact same thing happened to Carol Skolnick, for example. In NLP-hypnosis, there are deliberate techniques to FUSE the associations from one thing to another. But NLP or not, Katie did it in seconds, by just stepping into the Imago and placement in the person's psyche. Watch out for that. That is Guru-Hopping.
That is a deliberate technique used by Byron Katie, that can be engineered, precisely, in the moment, by people who know what they are doing.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Pilot
()
Date: March 19, 2009 12:20PM
This lady is an operator, she got her livelihood pinched back by miss katie and payback's a bitch, with this expose, she can pick up a few of her own followers with this little gem:
"I call it shameless living"
Engaging story. Clearly she is still in the biz. I guess this is the self-help equivalent of how any business would undercut it's competition. I saw her web-page listed as a facilitator on the katie website-she claimed they took it down. What's up with that??
"I call it shameless living"
Engaging story. Clearly she is still in the biz. I guess this is the self-help equivalent of how any business would undercut it's competition. I saw her web-page listed as a facilitator on the katie website-she claimed they took it down. What's up with that??
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Janaki
Posted by:
Pilot
()
Date: March 19, 2009 12:25PM
[/quote]Quote
helpme2times
Pilot, I definitely feel differently since you have shared the link re Janaki's experiences with Byron Katie, which I did not know about. Can you understand why I might have felt suspicious?
Yeah I understand, much better now. I have to say reading this account opened my eyes-how good, well-meaning intelligent people get sucked in by her. It is pretty mind-blowing on many levels.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Ken Keyes, and Guru Transference
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 19, 2009 12:26PM
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
a quick word about this blog
Byron Katie and Janaki [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
First off, its good that someone finally stepped forward to give a little hint of how the sausage is being made behind the curtain, even from afar in Europe. The fact that she is still deeply emotionally enmeshed with Byron Katie, will probably make it readable for those deeply involved in the Byron Katie system. (every single one of them will read every word of it, you can count on that).
She appears to have grown up in a Guru based childhood, and has gone through a series of Guru's, which is a common pattern. Sadly, some go through dozens for decades...
But what is missing from her analysis are the specific TECHNIQUES that Guru's use on their devotees. Sadly, many devotees, just get caught up in their own feelings, and don't see things from the Guru's persective.
Guru's are just humans, they are not special. You have to take a Guru point of view.
Guru's are just like us, except they know how to control people...that is why they are the Guru, and not the slave!
Guru's carefully study specific tactics on how to manipulate people, and get them to do what they Guru wants. All of the nightmares of this woman working 24/7 for Byron Katie is not magic. Its engineered. She was not the only one, Katie has a roomful of them., dozens of them. And she will kick you out if you complain too much, and ask to get paid.
She wonders why she was kicked out of the BKI system.
Why does Katie kick people out of her seminars who challenge her? Because the word gets out that if you challenge her, you get the boot! So you don't challenge.
This lady was getting a little too big for her britches for BKland, so they booted her out.
TM did the same thing with Deepak Chopra.
Also, Katie has many others who will PAY to be on her "Staff" since she has refined her methods.
What she doesn't yet realize, is all the lovey-dovey love-bombing stuff from Katie, and even Mitchell...what's that about? It seems they didn't sign her to a non-disclosure agreement, like everyone else, so how can they keep her quiet? Maybe Love-bombing would keep her quiet, they thought. Kick her out for a while, then bring her back in.
Guru's always do that, throw people out for a while, then bring them back. Keeps them in their place.
It will be interesting to see if that blog stays up. You can be sure that BK people have her "on the phone" 24/7 to try and "clear things up".
But a serious error she makes is in her analysis, that The Work helps, and its like Cognitive Therapy. Its not. CT is the opposite to The Work, and CT has been proven to be effective in actual studies. The Work is a cognitive distortion, that is reality.(Personalization).
The Work makes people feel more shame and guilt, its a guilt-shame Checkmate, which puts people under control.
Byron Katie set-up The Work as a checkmate system. Its a thought-reform system, or the gateway to one.
So one hopes the blog writer will do some SERIOUS research into thought-reform, and LGAT's, and perhaps she will begin to see Byron Katie's TECHNIQUE is not magic.
The BK system is scary. A person, like the blog writer, can go in there for more than a DECADE and still not understand what the hell happened to them, and still be caught up in it.
This thread explains most of what happened to her, believe it or not. Its not magic, people turning over all their assets, and working for free for years, its all according to design and plan.
Why do you think they dropped her salary? That is deliberate. They are making millions.
It might take time, but eventually people will begin to see the technique.
The Byron Katie thought-reform system is one of the most effective on the market today, as its quite subtle, and even invisible to most people.
you hardly know where to begin with this.
But hopefully the blog writer will take one piece of advice.
Take 1 year, 12 months, off from ALL Guru's and Anti-Guru's and Non-Guru Guru's.
Study, very carefully various LGAT, and thought-reform techniques used by various cult leaders.
Even take a break from Tony Parsons...or whoever. (Tony Parsons appears to have been in What The Bleep...the Ramtha cult fake-doc? He advertises himself as..."To meet with Tony Parsons is to encounter a paradox"...here we go again...beware nondual GURU HOPPING!!!!)
Muktananda did many of the exact same techniques as other cult leaders, even similar to Byron Katie, she seems to have picked up a bunch of former SIDDHA followers.
People should forget all this "enlightenment" stuff for a year, just a year to start. Take a break from enlightenment for a year. What's the rush? Where's the fire?
And instead learn HOW the Guru's do it.
Its not rocket science.
Its technique.
We need to study the specific methods Guru's use to trigger these feelings in groups of people, how they get them to work for free, idolize them, give them money, confuse them.
None of it is magic, its all learnable technique, other than the basic charisma.
But all the tactics can be learned.
But regardless, a look into the working circle of Byron Katie is interesting, read it while it lasts. Now everyone gets forced to sign to non-disclosure contracts.
a quick word about this blog
Byron Katie and Janaki [janakisstory.wordpress.com]
First off, its good that someone finally stepped forward to give a little hint of how the sausage is being made behind the curtain, even from afar in Europe. The fact that she is still deeply emotionally enmeshed with Byron Katie, will probably make it readable for those deeply involved in the Byron Katie system. (every single one of them will read every word of it, you can count on that).
She appears to have grown up in a Guru based childhood, and has gone through a series of Guru's, which is a common pattern. Sadly, some go through dozens for decades...
But what is missing from her analysis are the specific TECHNIQUES that Guru's use on their devotees. Sadly, many devotees, just get caught up in their own feelings, and don't see things from the Guru's persective.
Guru's are just humans, they are not special. You have to take a Guru point of view.
Guru's are just like us, except they know how to control people...that is why they are the Guru, and not the slave!
Guru's carefully study specific tactics on how to manipulate people, and get them to do what they Guru wants. All of the nightmares of this woman working 24/7 for Byron Katie is not magic. Its engineered. She was not the only one, Katie has a roomful of them., dozens of them. And she will kick you out if you complain too much, and ask to get paid.
She wonders why she was kicked out of the BKI system.
Why does Katie kick people out of her seminars who challenge her? Because the word gets out that if you challenge her, you get the boot! So you don't challenge.
This lady was getting a little too big for her britches for BKland, so they booted her out.
TM did the same thing with Deepak Chopra.
Also, Katie has many others who will PAY to be on her "Staff" since she has refined her methods.
What she doesn't yet realize, is all the lovey-dovey love-bombing stuff from Katie, and even Mitchell...what's that about? It seems they didn't sign her to a non-disclosure agreement, like everyone else, so how can they keep her quiet? Maybe Love-bombing would keep her quiet, they thought. Kick her out for a while, then bring her back in.
Guru's always do that, throw people out for a while, then bring them back. Keeps them in their place.
It will be interesting to see if that blog stays up. You can be sure that BK people have her "on the phone" 24/7 to try and "clear things up".
But a serious error she makes is in her analysis, that The Work helps, and its like Cognitive Therapy. Its not. CT is the opposite to The Work, and CT has been proven to be effective in actual studies. The Work is a cognitive distortion, that is reality.(Personalization).
The Work makes people feel more shame and guilt, its a guilt-shame Checkmate, which puts people under control.
Byron Katie set-up The Work as a checkmate system. Its a thought-reform system, or the gateway to one.
So one hopes the blog writer will do some SERIOUS research into thought-reform, and LGAT's, and perhaps she will begin to see Byron Katie's TECHNIQUE is not magic.
The BK system is scary. A person, like the blog writer, can go in there for more than a DECADE and still not understand what the hell happened to them, and still be caught up in it.
This thread explains most of what happened to her, believe it or not. Its not magic, people turning over all their assets, and working for free for years, its all according to design and plan.
Why do you think they dropped her salary? That is deliberate. They are making millions.
It might take time, but eventually people will begin to see the technique.
The Byron Katie thought-reform system is one of the most effective on the market today, as its quite subtle, and even invisible to most people.
you hardly know where to begin with this.
But hopefully the blog writer will take one piece of advice.
Take 1 year, 12 months, off from ALL Guru's and Anti-Guru's and Non-Guru Guru's.
Study, very carefully various LGAT, and thought-reform techniques used by various cult leaders.
Even take a break from Tony Parsons...or whoever. (Tony Parsons appears to have been in What The Bleep...the Ramtha cult fake-doc? He advertises himself as..."To meet with Tony Parsons is to encounter a paradox"...here we go again...beware nondual GURU HOPPING!!!!)
Muktananda did many of the exact same techniques as other cult leaders, even similar to Byron Katie, she seems to have picked up a bunch of former SIDDHA followers.
People should forget all this "enlightenment" stuff for a year, just a year to start. Take a break from enlightenment for a year. What's the rush? Where's the fire?
And instead learn HOW the Guru's do it.
Its not rocket science.
Its technique.
We need to study the specific methods Guru's use to trigger these feelings in groups of people, how they get them to work for free, idolize them, give them money, confuse them.
None of it is magic, its all learnable technique, other than the basic charisma.
But all the tactics can be learned.
But regardless, a look into the working circle of Byron Katie is interesting, read it while it lasts. Now everyone gets forced to sign to non-disclosure contracts.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Pilot
()
Date: March 19, 2009 12:36PM
Quote
Pilot
This lady is an operator, she got her livelihood pinched back by miss katie and payback's a bitch, with this expose, she can pick up a few of her own followers with this little gem:
"I call it shameless living"
Engaging story. Clearly she is still in the biz. I guess this is the self-help equivalent of how any business would undercut it's competition. I saw her web-page listed as a facilitator on the katie website-she claimed they took it down. What's up with that??
[www.thework.com]
I couldn't find the link to her from bk home page, this came up with a search of her name Janaki van den Brink.
repost to include link
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Janaki
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 19, 2009 12:59PM
The Byron Katie webpage for Janaki is not on the main page of Byron Katie facilitators, only on a seperate page.
[www.thework.com]
They could have put her webpage back up to try and damage Janaki. She said they removed her from the main-page, which is accurate.
Payback is a bitch, and it goes both ways. Blowback is also a bitch.
Clearly, Janaki has only presented a small amount of what she could say, after all those years.
The most likely result of this will be the typical threatening Guru attacks behind the scenes, that leads to silence, in some type of secret backroom deal. They wheel and deal behind the scenes, from threats to payoffs, and then silence.
Janaki seems to be an honest and genuine person, naive even, but not yet fully dis-illusioned. But she still knows how to pack a punch.
It will take many years until the full story on Byron Katie comes out.
Its funny how some of her former followers seem to think success "spoiled" Katie. Nope, this is what she wanted all along. She said herself to Janaki, she wants the words of Byron Katie to be like the Sermon on the Mount. Extreme meglomania.
She's always wanted massive money, massive power, she's been working toward it for decades.
She becomes "cold" when she has used you up.
She's just a typical New Wage style personality cult LGAT profiteer. There are dozens of them out there, hundreds even. But she is one of the most talented at creating a smokescreen. But Byron Katie is nothing special.
[www.thework.com]
They could have put her webpage back up to try and damage Janaki. She said they removed her from the main-page, which is accurate.
Payback is a bitch, and it goes both ways. Blowback is also a bitch.
Clearly, Janaki has only presented a small amount of what she could say, after all those years.
The most likely result of this will be the typical threatening Guru attacks behind the scenes, that leads to silence, in some type of secret backroom deal. They wheel and deal behind the scenes, from threats to payoffs, and then silence.
Janaki seems to be an honest and genuine person, naive even, but not yet fully dis-illusioned. But she still knows how to pack a punch.
It will take many years until the full story on Byron Katie comes out.
Its funny how some of her former followers seem to think success "spoiled" Katie. Nope, this is what she wanted all along. She said herself to Janaki, she wants the words of Byron Katie to be like the Sermon on the Mount. Extreme meglomania.
She's always wanted massive money, massive power, she's been working toward it for decades.
She becomes "cold" when she has used you up.
She's just a typical New Wage style personality cult LGAT profiteer. There are dozens of them out there, hundreds even. But she is one of the most talented at creating a smokescreen. But Byron Katie is nothing special.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Janaki
Posted by:
Pilot
()
Date: March 19, 2009 01:20PM
Quote
The Anticult
The Byron Katie webpage for Janaki is not on the main page of Byron Katie facilitators, only on a seperate page.
[www.thework.com]
They could have put her webpage back up to try and damage Janaki. She said they removed her from the main-page, which is accurate.
Payback is a bitch, and it goes both ways. Blowback is also a bitch.
Clearly, Janaki has only presented a small amount of what she could say, after all those years.
And I bet bk knows it. It could be her veiled threat to bk - "I can take you down..." Just think if this thing goes viral in bk land , what havoc shall be wreaked! I hope tonnes of people read this. This lady took back her story. Good for her. bk's take-down should be spectacular. I'd like to see some Janakis on Oprah.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) Janaki
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: March 19, 2009 02:25PM
sadly, BK would have seen Janaki slipping away for some time, and has done major damage control.
Not one link comes up with the word Janaki on the BK public forums.
BK will just blame her, of course. That's probably why they left that other Janaki webpage up.
Janaki has not yet truly realized what was done to her, and how it was done. She is still proving to herself that Byron Katie is NOT a divine being, but just a human, and a greedy, self-centered, manipulative, dishonest human at that. Katie creates the Illusion she is divine, using her techniques, its very common stuff. Divine Guru 101.
The Ken Keyes information has been taken down from the Janaki website, but that could blow Byron Katie wide open, to show her exact copying of large parts of his work. Of course Byron Katie has copied people's work, and not just his. She copied the techniques of many LGAT leaders for the last 20 years for her seminars.
And that is less than 25% of what Byron Katie does. That is just the "content" Most of what she does is what she is DOING TO people, not what she is saying. Its amazing people don't see that.
This is one of the few expose's of Byron Katie, as she goes back so many years.
Since then, BK, like the other Guru's have learned. Now they sign everyone to non-disclosure contracts. They are forced to keep their mouths shut.
But for the former BK Whistleblowers who want to spread information to the public, they can do so using websites like Wikileaks www.wikileaks.org
Like about this?
[forum.culteducation.com]
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
"Often money was given to staff and friends to take home to the States for her. Some would get up to $ 10.000 to put into their suitcases, that being the amount you are allowed to carry on your person to the U.S. without having to declare it."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2009 02:30PM by The Anticult.
Not one link comes up with the word Janaki on the BK public forums.
BK will just blame her, of course. That's probably why they left that other Janaki webpage up.
Janaki has not yet truly realized what was done to her, and how it was done. She is still proving to herself that Byron Katie is NOT a divine being, but just a human, and a greedy, self-centered, manipulative, dishonest human at that. Katie creates the Illusion she is divine, using her techniques, its very common stuff. Divine Guru 101.
The Ken Keyes information has been taken down from the Janaki website, but that could blow Byron Katie wide open, to show her exact copying of large parts of his work. Of course Byron Katie has copied people's work, and not just his. She copied the techniques of many LGAT leaders for the last 20 years for her seminars.
And that is less than 25% of what Byron Katie does. That is just the "content" Most of what she does is what she is DOING TO people, not what she is saying. Its amazing people don't see that.
This is one of the few expose's of Byron Katie, as she goes back so many years.
Since then, BK, like the other Guru's have learned. Now they sign everyone to non-disclosure contracts. They are forced to keep their mouths shut.
But for the former BK Whistleblowers who want to spread information to the public, they can do so using websites like Wikileaks www.wikileaks.org
Like about this?
[forum.culteducation.com]
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
"Often money was given to staff and friends to take home to the States for her. Some would get up to $ 10.000 to put into their suitcases, that being the amount you are allowed to carry on your person to the U.S. without having to declare it."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2009 02:30PM by The Anticult.
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