Blackhat:

Again, nothing compelling only "unsubstantiated" claims.

Looks like Dave McKay may have problems, but he is probably still running the show and largely, if not completely, in control.

If this is not the case meaningful objective evidence (e.g. Joe Johnson) will surface.

Until then, all I am reading is essentially speculation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2010 10:19PM by rrmoderator.

I think that the rrmoderator is making a valid point. The nature of this 'thought reform' is that once in place it does not require the physical presence of the cult leader to function. The fish is hooked, remember?

Cult leaders die in harness and still have devoted followers carrying out their demands generations on.
The COG's still run to 'Moses' David Berg's direction as do $cientologists to L Ron's.
I expect to be 'working on my recovery' until the day I die--but then I am a particularly mule-headed case. :)

Away from Davejc there is a hope, I wouldn't discount some skilled exit counselling either to help the process along.
It is a very highly skilled and sensitive job, despite Davejc's sneers.
My hopes are not that the JC's are free right now as I know they can't be, my hopes are that, away from him some tiny doubts might start to sprout and not be immediately crushed by Davejc.

I don't think there is any hope for Davejc, he is reading here and frantically trying to pick up tips to spin that might help him continue to weave his tangled web.
Anything we can do to poke a few holes in that is good.



Great Jerry Springer clip, BTW.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2010 11:20PM by Stoic.

Regarding Hope, the original Pandora myth was interpreted in a rather more grim and realistic way than it is at present, and Pandora was created as a seductress:

[en.wikipedia.org]

The myth
Pandora was created upon the command of Zeus to Hephaestus, the god of craftsmanship. Hephaestus created her using water and earth, while other gods granted her many gifts (for example, beauty from Aphrodite, persuasiveness from Hermes, and music from Apollo).

After Prometheus stole fire from Mount Olympus, Zeus sought reprisal by handing Pandora to Epimetheus, the brother of Prometheus. At the same time, Pandora was given a jar that she was ordered not to open under any circumstances. Despite this warning, overcome by curiosity Pandora opened the jar. Upon doing so, the evils contained within escaped into the world. Scared, Pandora immediately closed the jar, only to trap Hope inside, as was Zeus' will.

In other versions, Hope does come out, though the main purpose of the myth of Pandora is to address why evil exists in the world. Many interpretations of the story overlook the fact that Pandora's Box contained all things evil that would plague mankind and Hope was inside this box, thus completely missing this second lesson of the Myth.

Stoic:

My hope is that somehow the followers of McKay are physically on their own, which would be good.

Cult leaders depend largely upon control of the environment to keep their followers in line.

However, at this point it is unsubstantiated speculation concerning exactly what is happening with the JCs.

All of this may be little more than a strategy devised by McKay to manipulate people and/or his situation.

It will be some time before the facts become objectively evident and proven.

Meanwhile we can only hope for the best, but remain skeptical and prepared for the worst.

Dave McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') respond's to his son's plea for communication through a counsellor...

Dave McKay wrote:

Quote

Assuming that you mean a faciitator with experience in mediating disagreements, I think that is a wonderful idea. I would, of course, want one who is both neutral and a trained professional. Do you have anyone in mind? It would take some effort for me to get to Sydney for such counselling, but with some notice, it could probably be arranged. If you were able to get as far north as Newcastle, that might be even better, but not essential.

I think there are people who specialise in this sort of thing, and it may even be possible to claim the costs from the government.

Can you believe the cheek of this fraud?

He pays no taxes for decades whilst running a cult... He disownes his own son for over a decade... But he's now decided he'd like to set up a counselling session and he expects the tax payer to foot the bill?!!!!

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

Dear Stoic,

Thank you for the link to the "Black Lightning" article....a fascinating read! I certainly admire the man....

...the "instruction" under McKay tended to be fairly direct and overt.....one didn't aquire many things by "osmosis" (although some things you obviously did acquire....such as "working out" that questioning David too often would led to ongoing "grievance" meetings where you would be required to "confess" to, the faults David "realized" you had, even though you couldn't see them for some reason "being out of the spirit", "selfishly" seeking your own direction in life, not "listening" to the "community" enough......or you soon found yourself OUT of the JesusChristians)....as far as cults experiences go, my time with the JC's (in the relative idealism of their early) years, was probably far less damaging that what you and many others may have experienced....

Thank you for the reference to David's postings Apollo (and thanks for the link Zeuszor).....McKay of course, is partially, (there may be glimmer of humanity yet alive in him that yet regrets alienating himself from his son...the rest of us matter not a whit of course!), "negotiating" with Kevin, for a "reconciliation" that would "shut Kevin up" and which would paper over the soul destroying fraud McKay perpetuated for years....thus allowing him a peaceful retirement, with "access" (i.e they are on talking and visiting terms) to his relatives (children and grand-children)

The mediating services McKay refers to, are available for FREE in the various Community Justice Centers of New South Wales...[www.cjc.nsw.gov.au]

David would "negotiate" by taking a couple of truckloads of "lies, fabrications and deceptions" and then deceitfully display his commitment to "compromise"...to an uninformed (that's what David means by "neutral"....anyone who knows the truth about him is "biased")mediator, by gradually "giving in" on points that always intended to simply bargain away.....until Kevin comes "halfway" to meet him by accepting a single truckload of lies, fabrications and deceptions.....and agrees not to unfairly criticize him in public again....McKay would be "all smiles" at this point

The issue is probably an important matter for Kevin....hence I will wish Kevin the success he seeks (if not the "success" McKay seeks!)...in this.

As the Moderator skilfully points out, there are a number of OTHER pointed questions that McKay really needs to address before he seeks redress through "legal mediation"..... I agree with Stoic's observation on the likelyhood of a truly "repentant" McKay appearing to be rather dim!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2010 03:31AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Kidney Health for Everyone and Especially Owners of One Kidney

Anyone with concerns about kidney health should each year request a test called glomerular filtration rate (GFR). It is now considered the best index of overall kidney function.

[www.google.com]

Abnormalities in GFR can signal early kidney disease long before BUN and creatnine levels rise, making it a much better way to identify problems with kideny function while these can still be corrected.

This directly measures efficiency of kidney function. By the time BUN and creatnine levels rise, GFR is already compromised.

Persons concerned about kidney health should also be monitored for other conditions that are well known for injuring kidneys, such as diabetes mellitus and hypertension.

Over the counter medications, particularly Ibuprofen are known to be hard on the kidney and alcohol can enhance the impact.

Discuss all this with your health care professional--and your pharmacist. Pharmacists are especially well informed about drug interactions.

If you smoke, do all you can to stop. Avoid alcohol. If you are in an occupation or have hobbies that involve exposure to toxic substances or heavy metals, use safety gear and make sure it is up to date.

(Disclaimer: This is no substitute for consultation with a health care provider.)

'until Kevin comes "halfway" to meet him by accepting a single truckload of lies, fabrications and deceptions.....and agrees not to unfairly criticize him in public again....McKay would be "all smiles" at this point'

The Anti-cult would refer to this 'coming halfway to meet him by accepting a single truckload of lies' as a sucker test and he would be right.
The agreement to come halfway is the signal that Davejc is looking for from his son which tells Davejc that the hook is still in place and working, and Davejc would be 'all smiles' then. If the hook is still in place then Davejc can and will reel it in at his leisure.

I hope his son is aware of this, as a long and knowledgeable association does tend to allow one to see this stuff coming from a mile off, once the trance is broken. All the physical and mental danger alerts spark up and it is important not to ignore these.
Long service in a cult environment functions to teach the person to ignore these natural alerts, along with anything else that does not serve the leaders agenda.

Its never a good idea to try to play the con at his own game, particularly if the con in question taught the player all he knows. Davejc knows all his son's buttons, he put them in place, after all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2010 06:19AM by Stoic.

Quote
Stoic
'until Kevin comes "halfway" to meet him by accepting a single truckload of lies, fabrications and deceptions.....and agrees not to unfairly criticize him in public again....McKay would be "all smiles" at this point'

I'm pleased to see Kevin holding his ground on this matter. Maybe i was a bit rash in my judgement, who knows. There's absolutely no need for Kevin to meet ''halfway''. Dave is the one who's libeled and disowned his own son for well over a decade now. For any reconciliation to happen Kevin will need to bow to Dave's every demand.

Dave certainly need's Kevin more than Kevin needs Dave.