Family loyalties can often effect peoples ability to think rationally. One may feel another source is effecting one's chances of reconciliation. That other source may then become the enemy.

What we over here strive to do is raise awareness against Dave McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') and his cult. That is the most important issue and is what we hope to achieve here. Any other side issues are unimportant. Alot has of course already been achieved but we must not take our eye off the ball.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2010 06:06AM by Apollo.

FYI--Ex-members navigate at their own speed.

Some unwind the programming quickly, while others take some time.

Professional counseling during the recovery period helps, but that's a personal decision.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Reading helps too.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Being the child of a cult leader is a very difficult position.

I have talked to ex-members that were also the children of cult leaders.

Very difficult, especially for those with family still in the group.

Quote
Apollo
Family loyalties can often effect peoples ability to think rationally. One may feel another source is effecting one's chances of reconciliation. That other source may then become the enemy.

What we over here strive to do is raise awareness against Dave McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') and his cult. That is the most important issue and is what we hope to achieve here. Any other side issues are unimportant. Alot has of course already been achieved but we must not take our eye off the ball.

Play the ball, not the player, right?

Dear Moderator,

I read the lead article in cult news, concerning your presentation in Shenzhen.....an impressive CV! You have quite a history!

The "intervention" vignettes were also fascinating....however may I ask what you would do in a situation where someone deceitfully agreed with you in every point?

We were advised by McKay that in the event we ever absconded in a "cult deprogramming" intervention, that we should simply agree with everything that was said to us and not seek to defend ourselves at all....then take the earliest opportunity to physically escape....McKay was here repeating advice that I saw Berg had offered other COG's....

How would you approach this?

(By the way you are not the "Black Lightning" figure that the COG's referred to you are you?.....)


On another note, I personally ran away from home at the age of 19 to join the "Christians"....your interventions (as described) would appear to require some pre-existing awareness and partial knowledge on the part of family and friends...only made possible by a "gradual entry" into a cult by an individual....

Malcolm Wesley WREST:

With one exception no one in my almost 30 years of experience has succeeded by using a strategy in an intervention.

They may initially think or feel this an effective ploy, but in the end it overwhelming doesn't work.

Of course this is in part dependent on the experience of the intervention specialist.

"Black Lightning" appears on this site:

[www.culteducation.com]

Were you given a lot of instruction by Davejc, (via Mo) about how to deal with outsiders, Malcolm?

Dear Stoic,

By "outsiders" I here refer specifically to cult intervention professionals (and NOT to family or the police,)....the only instructions I recall receiving, were the ones, that I have just referred to....and that I think I can recall see references to in a Mo Letter.....this was early on in the piece....hence during my time in the first half of '82 in Tallangatta, Victoria....

Thank you for the feedback Moderator...that's good to hear that such a strategy has generally failed to "protect" the indoctrination....


I feel obliged to again note as Blackhat has already observed that:

* Flirty fishing commencing in 1974 and in 1976 Dave McKay is running full page ads promoting the COG:

* The Children of God commenced Flirty fishing in 1974 and in 1976 some two years later, Dave McKay paid for a series of advertisements in the Broken Hill Regional Advertiser promoting the Children of God. (I can clearly remember Kevin discussing these with me...)

* Dave McKay has suggested on his forum that the final ad in the Regional Advertiser was NOT (his emphasis) in 1976, although he admits he could be wrong. ("Admitting" he could be "wrong" is likely nothing other than a ploy to excuse himself in the event that his lie is incontrovertibly disproven).

* It appears from the records that Advertisements were run on 3 August, 5 September, 12 October and the 19 October 1976.

* The Contact given for the advertisements was, The Children of God and included a PO Box and phone number known to be used by Dave McKay.

* The advertisements are reproduced in the Rick Ross, Jesus Christians Visual Archives thread.

McKay apparently remains in charge and continues to essentially control Joe Johnson.

Joe Johnson remains as a litmus test regarding McKay and the group.

If the JCs have ceased to exist as an organized group, Joe Johnson's changed behavior would reflect this, but nothing has changed.


- Moderator


I am again, extrapolating from my own experience....I too, would do exactly as the current JC's appear to be doing, "living out the dream" and "remaining true to the ideals" even if I had to, for unforeseen reasons, ....had to "temporarily distance" myself from David.....(as they would tell themselves)!

They are not in my opinion, any longer under the day to day command of McKay even though of course they are yet to "abandon" the paradigms of engagement with the world that he instructed them in....it is unlikely that Roland, Sue and Daniel or even Jayme and Jeremy are any more "free" in that sense either (and we know that they have DEFINITELY departed the JC's)....that as the Moderator points out on this page will occur over a longer time frame....

Joe's ultimate re-engagement with his grossly wronged parents, I agree is the "litmus test" that he has escaped the actual indoctrination of McKay...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2010 09:57AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

(Some cross posting again, thanks Malcolm, for your answer)

Perhaps I am being intrusive and impertinent in asking, please disregard the question.

I asked the question because, thinking back on my own, different, experience of growing up in a cult, I don't remember a single overt instruction, it was all done behaviourly, through example and the liberal use of fear.
There were a lot of statements and pronouncements about how we behaved in contrast to outsiders, which served to make us 'special' and elevated--but no clear instructions.
We seemed to pick up the required understanding by a sort of osmosis, becoming very attuned to atmosphere and 'vibes' rather than instruction.
The taboo against talking to 'outsiders' was absolute, regardless.
It made the later unravelling very slow, difficult and hard to pin down as a lot of what I had taken on board at a young age was non, or pre-verbal. I had to study a lot of subjects just to find the language to describe the feeling/experience to myself, let alone to anyone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2010 10:06AM by Stoic.

I don't have any feeling of family loyalty and don't recall ever having much to speak of, but due to my own struggles, I am acutely aware that whatever my remaining siblings decide for themselves (and their choices have been radically different to mine) is their right to decide and not mine to impose, influence or argue.
Probably one of the most painful conclusions I ever came to in my life because it meant the last hope of reconciliation with my siblings was gone, for me at least.
I'm OK with it now but the 'hope springing eternal' in a fundamentally hopeless situation must be one of the most tortured and agonising emotional experiences to undergo.
I feel for anyone still on that hook.