On another matter, David McKay would no longer to my mind have any "standing" in court (or elsewhere) as a JesusChristian....he has been abandoned by the entire former membership (I still suspect that Cherry may also have effectively, dumped him, by at the very least refusing to take part in his "cult" antics any longer....)...

David McKay is now an XJC as much as any of the individuals

whose departure he engineered when they failed to submit to him...


He has nothing.....(barely even a rational mind?) .......He cannot claim to even "represent" his own cult....as by majority vote, he has been "removed".....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 06:51PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Cult leaders typically are narcissists.

It seems to be virtually a minimum requirement for the role, along with no conscience, e.g. sociopath or psychopath.

I don't see any change in McKay's behavior that objectively confirms he and/or his group has moved to a significantly different place or phase.

McKay apparently remains in charge and continues to essentially control Joe Johnson.

Joe Johnson remains as a litmus test regarding McKay and the group.

If the JCs have ceased to exist as an organized group, Joe Johnson's changed behavior would reflect this, but nothing has changed.

Another test as the whether or not Dave McKay himself has actually changed or even wants to change in any meaningful way, would be to ask him the following:

What do you think that you have done wrong?

Name three things very specifically that you have done wrong regarding the JCs.

How do you think you need to change your behavior and attitude?

Name three things you want to change about yourself in an effort to improve your behavior and attitude.

Would you consider counseling sessions with a mental health professional to assist you in reaching stated goals regarding your behavior and attitude?

Would you consider counseling from a member of the Christian clergy to review whatever teachings you have promoted, which have been questioned and/or criticized?

Would you consider family counseling, which would include your wife and children, with a marriage and family therapist?

What date would you be prepared to begin such counseling?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 10:35PM by rrmoderator.

Quote
Blackhat
Kevin has posted on the X site:

Quote

Dave knows he is the only one who can answer that question. I have stood by an open door that he choses to walk away from. If he wants dialogue, to reconcile, or to end the lies and demonisiation, he just needs to do it, instead of making excuses to defend his isolation.

It's none of my business, and I am interfering here, but I still have to say that so many of Kevin's posts on the XJC forum have ended with an invitation to Dave to drop by for a cuppa and a chat.....

Breaks my heart.....

We must remember we're not dealing with a normal human being here. We're dealing with a man who has no conscience.

Treating his own family and the families of his victims/followers like the enemy is of second nature to McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God''). He doesn't spare a thought for the people he's hurt.

Breaks my heart to see him still on our streets...

BTW--It is not uncommon for a former "cult member" to start their own "cult."

This is not evidence though that they were a victim, but rather that they left a group to start their own so that they would be in charge.

Cult leaders don't like being followers. Instead, they want to be the ultimate authority and submit to no one.

Has a cult leader ever admitted to their own faults?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 10:48PM by Apollo.

Apollo:

Not really.

They typically talk in circles and never really accept responsibility for anything they have done wrong.

I've yet to hear McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') admit to any of his faults.

Dave McKay teaches ''when one has a problem with someone else, they could be to blame, but when everyone else has a problem with you, you are probably the one at fault.''

McKay doesn't appear to apply this rule to himself however. His critics are all just part of a world wide ''hate campaign''.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 11:22PM by Apollo.

If anyone would like some reading material on how people become charismatic leaders, look for and read psychologist Len Oakes' book, Prophetic Charisma

He has written two additional books and you can look them up here.

[www.bookfinder.com]

(Disclaimer: I have nothing to gain, socially or financially from this recommendation-C)

Oakes lived in a commune led by such a person, felt he had benefitted, met his future wife in this same community. But eventually the Oakes' left the community because they were troubled by a deterioration in the leader's behavior.

That leader and commune eventually got into a mess.

Oakes were left curious about how certain persons become charismatic leaders. He was able to persuade about twenty such leaders to give him interviews. (Others refused. One, not having ever met Oakes had the nerve to pass judgement on Oakes and his entire life)

What Oakes found was that all twenty of these charismatic leaders were driven persons. They felt unable to enjoy intimacy with adult peers. They had to be in the leader role, or else. (Echoing Mr Ross's observation that cult leaders have to control everything and everyone).

This website gives quotations from the book. But it is so full of insights that readers, especially survivors of a high demand group, would do well to get a copy of their own, even if by interlibrary loan.

[www.sustainedaction.org]

What I found valuable in reading Oakes was that charisma is not magic. It is an effect, produced by techniques, and it is very driven persons with a sense of great frustration who, all too often dedicate much effort to mastering these techniques.

All twenty of the leaders who consented to be interviewed were avid students of social manipulation, and worked hard at mastering the various techniques. Many were in sales, were teachers, etc.

The other thing Oakes learned was that charismatic leaders have a tiring time of it. They have to stay in control, monitor threats to their position. They cannot just 'be'.

They can produce ecstacy and a sense of purpose in followers but themselves, have little sense of peace--they are in the drivers seat all the time and cannot let up.

If you go to the 'search' button on the top right corner of the RI message board window, select 'all dates' and type 'Oakes' into the slot.

The leaders Oakes interviewed were all in Australia and, possibly New Zealand. Due to the sensitivity of this material, which Oakes wrote for his Ph.D dissertation, there was a wait period before it could be published as a book.

Oakes was conscientous about disguising identities, but Australians may be able to identify some of the situations.

His earlier book, Inside Centerpoint The story of a NZ Community describes a particular commune.

Quote
rrmoderator
BTW--It is not uncommon for a former "cult member" to start their own "cult."

This is not evidence though that they were a victim, but rather that they left a group to start their own so that they would be in charge.

Cult leaders don't like being followers. Instead, they want to be the ultimate authority and submit to no one.

I wonder if we can see those polarising traits anywhere else?

First they called themselves the Phoenix, and then they called themselves Greedbu$ter$.

Nowadays, they call themselves XJCs.

I can definitely see the similarities zeus.