It's wonderful to have you back zeuszor!!!!

The old sweetie wife will be crying into his bin raiding soup when he hear's the news.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 09:56AM by Apollo.

No, I'm not "back" per se.

I have read Dave's latest missive regarding dialogue, or whatever it is he now says he wants. He is very much in wooing phase here, at least with regard to myself and Kevin.

There was a reference somewhere, maybe Dave quoting Brian, of comparing this site to war, with guns and ammunition, and the X site to group therapy. That is probably it in a nutshell.

Now I am the only person who posts on both sites. And for quite some time I was posting on all three sites, challenging Dave on issues such as the whippings and kidney donations. I am not all guns and ammunition, but I'm pretty good at lobbing the odd effective hand-grenade when the situation calls for it.

But I also come from a place of seeing "That of God" in everyone, and I will never lose that belief. Even for mass murders and child abusers, as Brian likes to say. I'm no Mother Theresa or saint, as my history here shows, but I do believe that people should not be given blanket labels which mean that hatred for them consumes us. "That's how wars start", as my Mother used to say. Even on the Kokoda trail, soldiers from both sides found moments where they saw the ultimate humanity in their enemy.

And when Pandora opened that box and released all the hatred and evil things of the human spirit into the world, she also released Hope.

That being said, I have to agree with the moderator that until there is a return of Joe Johnson to his family, and until Dave stops referring to the attack on Reinhard as attempted murder, and saying that Sheila was an accomplice, then there really is no hope for me to begin any kind of "dialogue".

However, I will continue to defend "reason", as it is the only way we can ultimately express what makes us uniquely human. To go after someone with wild speculations stated as fact is not right. That is why I clarified my position on the child abuse within the COG, and whether Dave was aware of it while he was an associate. I see that Dave has finally made a statement denouncing this, in a kind of way.

Quote

Saying, for example, that I don't see that paedophilia is harmful is... well, words fail me.

A stronger statement on this might be helpful, Dave, given the current climate, and your recent postings which seem to be apologist and/or minimising, dismissing it as nothing worse than the Catholic Church. Has the Pope ever released teachings which said that child abuse is to be encouraged? Well that is the logical extension of your comparison, given that David Berg did just that.

I have on this site made at least one, maybe two requests to Dave to at least give us an update on Joe. Is this too much to ask, Dave? Or is it something you are going to hold on to as a power thing?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 02:30PM by Blackhat.

Kevin has posted on the X site:

Quote

Dave knows he is the only one who can answer that question. I have stood by an open door that he choses to walk away from. If he wants dialogue, to reconcile, or to end the lies and demonisiation, he just needs to do it, instead of making excuses to defend his isolation.

It's none of my business, and I am interfering here, but I still have to say that so many of Kevin's posts on the XJC forum have ended with an invitation to Dave to drop by for a cuppa and a chat.....

Breaks my heart.....

'Or is it something you are going to hold on to as a power thing?'

My reading is that Davejc will withhold any information if he senses that you want it, as that gives him a sense of power.

But ultimately, I don't think that Davejc has any furthur interest in the members if they are currently or temporarily beyond his control. I don't think he would be seeking to reconcile with his son and any other sympathisers on the xJC site if he still had direct control of his members. Davejc has a need to fulfil and the xJC's offer him his best shot at the control he craves at present.

Since the 'disbanding' Davejc has been consistently monomaniacal in his writings, his entire site is now devoted to his justifications and rationalisations of his own behaviour, others are only mentioned in relation to the bit parts they play in the longrunning Davejc melodrama. Even Cherryjc is a permanent 'offstage presence' now so while she might possibly still be physically around Davejc, she is effectively silenced as an independent person.

Something is missing in Davejc, I wouldn't call it 'that of god' unless that term is more precisely defined. What is so obviously and starkly missing in Davejc is any acknowledgement of others rights to an existence free of and independent of himself and his demands.

There is no room for others in Davejc's world, except to serve as mirrors to reflect his glory dreams back to himself.

Davejc has consistently turned the focus back on himself, exaggerating the degree to which he is being unfairly condemned and vilified, for dramatic effect---the negative focus seems the most satisfying of all to him--proof perhaps of his control that he can still conjure such a reaction.

In his perverse way Davejc needs the RR thread to continue as it feeds his persecution dreams--and people have to have at least a minimal degree of importance to be the objects of persecution. Being 'persected' allows Davejc the fantasy that he is a danger to convention, a radical, a mover and shaker and so 'worthy' of persecution.


I don't think that Davejc 'gets' that this thread is only peripherally about him and his behaviour. I doubt any of us are interested in Davejc per se---we are interested in highlighting his methods of snagging and keeping members and how joining him is indentured servitude and a loss of personal identity for the unwary.
His erstwhile members have first hand experience of this. It might take a while away from him to formulate it into words but the awareness is already there, if only faintly.
This thread is to show the downside for any who might seduced by Davejc into considering joining his cult.

Davejc is boring, like an automaton he can only play out his one programme.
Seen one cult leader? seen 'em all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 03:25PM by Stoic.

About the Pandors'a box myth, hope is released into the world but there is no suggestion that all hoped for things and events are even possible, let alone any guarantee that 'hoping' of itself is an effective strategy for making things happen.

As the Arabs say "Trust in god, but tie up your camel"

Davejc trades on this unrealistic hope-- it is his main manipulative ploy---to feed the hopes and dreams of idealistic people that a personal, problem-free utopia can be had in this life. It only actually works for Davejc and only to the extent that he can fool others into providing it for him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 03:41PM by Stoic.

I must say that most of what you say, Stoic, I agree with. If I could see, for example, Dave admitting that he was wrong in his persecution of DL as the person he claimed was Private Eyes, I might consider some kind of dialogue with him.

As it stands, he has vilified innocent people with his omniscience, and he will have to do a great deal of admitting errors before I would consider any dialogue with him.

How about it Dave? How about admitting you were wrong about DL?

Dave said, quoting me:

Quote

Here he was, a relatively young Christian, working for the Bible Society at an impressionable age, and he was courted by the COG. He followed his leading to the point of joining them, but then came to an abrupt halt when he realised that they were teaching things which were an abomination to him. Yet so much of what they taught seemed so right to him.

He responds

Quote

Precisely! I was only in my twenties at the time... about Joe's age.

Great that you can see that Dave, in regard to yourself. But can you see that in relation to Joe and others? Joe, who is now recovering from a kidney donation, and who will never be able to donate a kidney to any member of his family who might need one, and who might end up on dialysis in years to come should his one kidney fail?

You said:

Quote

I bumped into Mary years later, when she was crippled and almost blind from venereal disease contracted through her sex games with the COGs

I wonder what stories you will hear when you bump into people who donated kidneys under your influence?

See, Dave, you have complete empathy for the situation when you are the protagonist, but none for when you are the one pulling the strings. That hints to me that maybe RR is right about narcissism?

Dave said:

Quote

Cherry points out that one of the unique things about paedophilia is that the "victim" becomes the "predator" when they become adults. It is an insidious social disease.......

I wonder if the same principle applies to cults? A person comes under the influence of a cult as a "young impressionable person" and later on goes on to form a cult themselves??? Just a thought........

Dave has posted a long commentary on Kevin's posting. He does seem to genuinely want to clear the air about some things, and to have dialogue with at least some people, his son in particular.

He has said

Quote:
Yes, I have tried to "minimise" the association by pointing out that I LIVED IN A CHILDREN OF GOD COMMUNE for a total of about three weeks.

David constantly told the members in the "Chistians" (as were were then) that you can't "lead" if you can't first "follow"....and David has NEVER "followed"...the "three weeks" were the only period he was in subjection to someone's leadership (among other matters, he was advised to forsake his "writing" I believe, a directive he ignored)....after the "three weeks" David directly told me that he justified "moving out" and "setting up" his commune on the basis of "leading" his family.....David WAS the Children of God colony for a number of years in Broken Hill, and presented himself as such,

(Fortunately for David's children, Cherry was thus able to refuse to subject herself or her family to flirty fishing, as David "needed" them to set up shop on his own.....no-one of course other than David's family had any interest in being subject to McKay)


...."three weeks" is a utterly duplicitous claim, intended to mask his years and years of involvement....


On current performance (petulantly repeating ad nasuem "claims" that already been disproven, and attempting to make "acceptance" of his lies the basis for any "starting point" in negotiations) he deserves no sympathy.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2010 06:45PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.