Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:06PM
Quote
Blackhat
Just for the record:
I opposed DSM/littlerose's claims that the Jesus Christians are a front for a terrorist group.
I do not think they are a paedophile group, in the literal sense. Many people view the grooming of young people under 18 years old to join a cult as somewhat LIKE paedophilia, and I myself have used the term "Spiritual Paedophilia". Use of slang words like "rock spider" is understandable when one of your own children has been taken by the cult.
Dave has made some rather foolish statements regarding not using force on under-aged children, and has maybe managed the involvement of a convicted paedophile in his group in an inappropriate or foolish way, but that does not make him a paedophile.
I am not an apologist, but that's how I see it.
I view his use of whipping, and the way he uses members of his cult as cash-cows out on the streets with his books and DVD's, plus his dubious milking of Australian Centrelink funds and undeclared income, as much more concrete and serious concerns. Sending young people out on outreach missions with no food or shelter, the use of group pressure to bring about kidney donations from people so young as to not fully realise the consequences of such "generosity".... the alienation of young people from their families....these are the things with which I have concern, and do not wish to see continued or repeated. I could go on, but I think readers will get the picture.....
Hi Blackhat,
Nobody has claimed the JCs are a paedophile group or that Dave McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') has ever commmited any paedophilic crimes so i don't feel those are issues which we need to address.
I've already previously stated in what context the word groom has been used...
Definition of groom - To prepare, as for a specific position or purpose.
Did Dave McKay groom Joe Johnson for a specific position or purpose? Yes of course he did!
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:27PM
Dave McKay has replied to my post regarding the paedophile in India...
Apollo wrote:
Dave McKay wrote:
Dave McKay admits the man was a convicted paedophile...
Dave McKay wrote:
Dave McKay admits the man abused children on a train...
Dave McKay wrote:
Nobody is saying McKay should have killed this man or ''taken him out'' but what i'm saying is that a group who are working alongside children on a daily basis is not an appropriate place for a convicted paedophile.
I think it's fair to say the JCs have often referred to themselves as a ''charity organisation''.
Would any other charity organisation in the world who work alongside children on a daily basis allow a convicted paedophile to join them?
No of course they wouldn't as that would be putting children at serious risk of harm. Any respectable charity organisation which is working alongside children would do stringent checks and a convicted paedophile would not be allowed to work alongside them.
These heinous paedophilic crimes could have been avoided had McKay followed standard procedure which you would expect of any group working alongside children.
Apollo wrote:
Quote
This man was sent to work alongside the cult in India. This put the safety of the cult members children at serious risk and of course any children the cult came into contact with.
Dave McKay wrote:
Quote
True. But then that would apply to anyone anywhere the man ever went. So what do we do with him, Brian? Do we kill him? Do we "take him out" as you have been suggesting about me all these years?
Dave McKay admits the man was a convicted paedophile...
Dave McKay wrote:
Quote
he had paid his debt to society
Dave McKay admits the man abused children on a train...
Dave McKay wrote:
Quote
He just confessed that he had abused begger children in the toilets while travelling on trains.
Nobody is saying McKay should have killed this man or ''taken him out'' but what i'm saying is that a group who are working alongside children on a daily basis is not an appropriate place for a convicted paedophile.
I think it's fair to say the JCs have often referred to themselves as a ''charity organisation''.
Would any other charity organisation in the world who work alongside children on a daily basis allow a convicted paedophile to join them?
No of course they wouldn't as that would be putting children at serious risk of harm. Any respectable charity organisation which is working alongside children would do stringent checks and a convicted paedophile would not be allowed to work alongside them.
These heinous paedophilic crimes could have been avoided had McKay followed standard procedure which you would expect of any group working alongside children.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:34PM
Quote
Apollo
Dave McKay (former ''Shepherd'' of the notorious ''Children of God'') has created a thread titled '''Kevin and Paedophilia'''.
There was previously a thread created on the JCs forum titled ''Kirsty and Prostitution''. I recently read it and i believe it is still available to view. The poster who created this thread was vilified by McKay and his victims/followers as they felt it was a misleading thread title.
Notice any similarities in these two thread titles?
Oh the hypocrisy indeed!!!!
Oh and for the benefit of any newcomers to the thread, the Kevin he is referring to is in actual fact his son. The same son who he previously referred to as the ''devil''. Yes that's the kind of father Dave McKay is.
This thread is actually titled ''Prostitution and Kirstie'' and it's on page 3 of the ''Resolving Differences'' section of the JCs forum.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2010 07:36PM by Apollo.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:35PM
I agree with you Apollo regarding best practice when convicted paedophiles apply to work with children.
Dave seems to have no regard for best practice when appointing this person to work with children. Under current Victorian (Australia) regulations, he would not have been allowed to work with children.
Dave seems to have no regard for best practice when appointing this person to work with children. Under current Victorian (Australia) regulations, he would not have been allowed to work with children.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:38PM
Thank you Blackhat,
It is the law which Dave McKay appears to have absolutely no respect for.
It is the law which Dave McKay appears to have absolutely no respect for.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: December 17, 2010 07:52PM
OK, Apollo, so what you seem to be saying is that Dave failed in his "Duty of Care" regarding allowing a convicted paedophile to have contact with children within his organisation.
You are not saying that he is a paedophile himself, is that correct?
Failing in your "Duty of Care" is serious enough......particularly regarding children......
You are not saying that he is a paedophile himself, is that correct?
Failing in your "Duty of Care" is serious enough......particularly regarding children......
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: December 17, 2010 08:10PM
Apollo wrote:
In reply...
Dave McKay wrote:
McKay has admitted he only managed to get the man to confess to the police with the help of someone who knew the man better.
So what would have happened if this other man wasn't able to get the man to confess?
Would Dave have reported him to the police?
Would the man still be on our streets today?
If someone has confessed to committing a paedophile crime then by law he should be reported to the police immediately.
Quote
After much deliberation McKay eventually decided to send the man back to Australia where the authorities arrested him.
In reply...
Dave McKay wrote:
Quote
It may have been after he returned to Australia that he confessed, but yes, we did get him (with the help of someone else who knew him and his past better than us) to confess to the police. Do you think we did the wrong thing?
McKay has admitted he only managed to get the man to confess to the police with the help of someone who knew the man better.
So what would have happened if this other man wasn't able to get the man to confess?
Would Dave have reported him to the police?
Would the man still be on our streets today?
If someone has confessed to committing a paedophile crime then by law he should be reported to the police immediately.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: December 17, 2010 08:46PM
To whom it may concern:
Anyone that has information about the sexual abuse of children should report it immediately to the police and/or local legal authorities.
Children were horribly abused within "Children of God."
Dave McKay was a member of that group, but he has not been charged to my knowledge with the sexual abuse of children.
If you don't have any such specific information, speculation on this thread is not meaningful or helpful.
IMO--Proselytizing minor children without written parental notification and consent is unethical.
Any evangelist or religious recruiter should notify and receive written consent from a child's legal guardian, before beginning any such activity with a minor.
Anyone that has information about the sexual abuse of children should report it immediately to the police and/or local legal authorities.
Children were horribly abused within "Children of God."
Dave McKay was a member of that group, but he has not been charged to my knowledge with the sexual abuse of children.
If you don't have any such specific information, speculation on this thread is not meaningful or helpful.
IMO--Proselytizing minor children without written parental notification and consent is unethical.
Any evangelist or religious recruiter should notify and receive written consent from a child's legal guardian, before beginning any such activity with a minor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: December 17, 2010 09:54PM
Things are getting slightly heated at the moment.
It's almost the weekend. Here's one of my favourite live performances to lighten the mood and to take us into the weekend.
Enjoy...
[www.youtube.com]
It's almost the weekend. Here's one of my favourite live performances to lighten the mood and to take us into the weekend.
Enjoy...
[www.youtube.com]
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Malcolm Wesley WREST
()
Date: December 17, 2010 10:13PM
Malcolm is it fair to say that during the period you knew Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') he appeared to think very highly of ''Moses'' David Berg?
- Apollo
Dear Apollo,
...this is a question you put to me on p550! I apologize for the delayed response. You should run this enquiry past a couple of former members, in addition to simply asking me....my impression, for what it is worth, is "yes", but I would also say the same of David's attitude towards Billy Graham....David thought highly of him, (and Berg) for all the wrong reasons...he liked both men for having put themselves in positions of "dominance"....they clearly had influence and indeed even some degree of power over the lives of thousands of others....THAT'S what David admired about them....what they actually said or taught, was secondary to him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2010 10:25PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
- Apollo
Dear Apollo,
...this is a question you put to me on p550! I apologize for the delayed response. You should run this enquiry past a couple of former members, in addition to simply asking me....my impression, for what it is worth, is "yes", but I would also say the same of David's attitude towards Billy Graham....David thought highly of him, (and Berg) for all the wrong reasons...he liked both men for having put themselves in positions of "dominance"....they clearly had influence and indeed even some degree of power over the lives of thousands of others....THAT'S what David admired about them....what they actually said or taught, was secondary to him.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2010 10:25PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.
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