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Styxxx
NO.

If David McKay is ill, his members should have behaved in a Christlike way and got him help. If this is a form of dementia, it's not his fault. Dementia can often amplify positive or negative personality traits. It can take a hobby someone has of say collecting toy trains and turn it into a rampant obsession where it is all the person will focus on and talk about. They can become protective of their interest fearing others seek to steal it or destroy it.

If those who have been living closely with David McKay see a serious health issue that is going unaddressed they owe it to Jesus and to their old friend, the Dave they respected enough to follow not to simply abandon him. They could have opted to rise above differences and contact a son who could and would help. How would they have liked to be dumped like so much waste in disposable bin liners if they were ill. Would David have dumped them if they were ill? Well he didn't dump his wife who is sickly. Reinhard was not dumped when injured. Would JESUS dump anyone who was suffering?

I'm still not convinced this isn't all some act but if we are even speaking hypothetically, I would have much less respect for anyone who would dump a sick person regardless of how the person is behaving in their illness.

I also agree that falling leaves was not Grace. I suspect someone who has mentioned his illness might have done this or some miserable troll who gets off on starting trouble. Either way, no one seemed to buy into their story for long yet no one went into attack mode so it was a pointless waste of their time.

How do you think McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') would have reacted if someone from the cult had raised this issue, considering how stubborn McKay is?

If McKay is showing the early signs of dementia then it's down to his spouse ''Consort'' who actually lives with the man to raise the issue.

Anyway, McKay's health is of no great concern to me. I'm more concerned about families like the Johnson's whose lives have been ruined by this evil cult leader.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2010 05:45PM by Apollo.

Davejc,the sick, senile, deserving of care and consideration, old man is just another role-playing game--just like Davejc, the devout christian, following Jesus, is a role-playing game.
We are talking about a hollow man here who has too much time on his hands so is dreaming up the next role he can adopt in order to 'pull the strings' of anyone within reach.

He may well be desperate, but its for any negative attention he can still wring and squeeze from his audience. not for social and medical care for senility.
Besides, he seems to have relied on the Australian government for regular, steady income for most of his life, a few more years relying on their bounty for impersonal senior care will be a fitting end to this sorry tale.

Remember who this person is, someone who has spent a lifetime manipulating the emotions of sincere people in order to bind them into servitude to himself, someone who will stop at nothing to get what he wants, the care, concern, deference, support both financial and personal and indentured service of anyone unwary enough to believe that his role-playing act is a sincere expression of character.

This is a nasty old man having a last fling at 'pulling the strings.' People with dementia don't suddenly become sweet old things deserving of pity, they become more of what they have already been practising all their lives.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2010 06:00PM by Stoic.

Has anyone heard if Joe Johnson has returned home to his family and/or left the group?

The Johnsons have certainly suffered enough.

Families like the Johnson's are the people i'm most concerned about, and not Dave McKay's health. They're the real victims in all of this. Joe was secretly groomed from the age of 16 and it should not have been allowed. These people have been put through hell and the sooner Joe breaks free of this narcissistic, evil cult leader the better.

There have been conflicting reports. As far as i'm aware nobody has heard from the 'ex' cult members but hopefully there will be good news soon.

From Davejc was the only report that Joe had undergone his kidney donation and was in recovery from the extremely debilitating and invasive renal surgery. This report surfaced some short time after the forum lock-down and, coming from Davejc, is suspect like all else that issues from his mouth and pen.

Joe is apparently based in Kenya but was said to be travelling to Israel? for the surgery.
For a person in surgical recovery, international travel and the problems of a lack of financial, medical, moral and social support in a foreign land is a major cause for concern, IMO.

Far more deserving, IMO, of a concerned citizen's sympathy than a paranoid and ranting old man writing delirious nonsense to himself on a forum in the hope of snagging yet more kidney donors to fund his retirement and his need for public recognition.

Styxxx,

Do you not agree that ultimately it should be down to ''Consort'' to monitor McKay's mental state?

Ok yes i know ''Consort'' has been programmed into McKay's little lapdog but even so nobody knows McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') better than ''Consort'' herself. We all know McKay spends most of his time online obsesssing over the two forums and courting his ''mistress'' but i'm sure ''Consort'' still sees enough of the old sweetie wife to notice a change in his mental state.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2010 01:31AM by Apollo.

If Cherryjc, the consort of Davejc, is truly a downtrodden, surrendered wife, she will be monitoring any descent into dementia with mixed feelings of relief at being released from domination and fear that now, at this late stage, she must begin doing the thinking for the both of them.
What a dismal prospect.

I certainly wouldn't be casting the first stones if Cherryjc decided that life is short enough and it was time to cut and run. She has little other prospect of knowing and enjoying her grandchildren as they grow.

Quote
Apollo
Styxxx,

Do you not agree that ultimately it should be down to ''Consort'' to monitor McKay's mental state?

Ok yes i know ''Consort'' has been programmed into McKay's little lapdog but even so nobody knows McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') better than ''Consort'' herself. We all know McKay spends most of his time online obsesssing over the two forums and courting his ''mistress'' but i'm sure ''Consort'' still sees enough of the old sweetie wife to notice a change in his mental state.

I think it's up to ANY professing Christian, actually ANY decent fellow human being not to dump someone, especially someone that you claimed as friend or leader, if he is in need of medical care. I think the responsible and decent thing would be to deliver him into the hands of those who can assess him properly and that might mean having someone visit wherever he lives and it might mean the care is forced on him, if he resists. In America, I believe that this can happen if the person is a danger to themselves or others. People can be encouraged, coaxed, even manhandled by trained police even if the situation warrants it. This is not the average police beat cop, the police have people trained in handling the unstable and they attempt to intercede in a non combative way if possible, the goal being getting the person help before any crime takes place such as some family member being assaulted, but they are also prepared for what is required to force a 36 hour psychiatric evaluation if they feel that is warranted to keep EVERYONE safe from injury. I actually doubt this would be the case as McKay seems high functioning at this point but the police will act as standby for mental health experts to stage an in home intervention or assessment. I know this as fact as I have worked in the field of Victims Assistance and Crisis Intervention and the police will assist to ensure the peace is kept. They provide "encouragement" for co-operation and their pretense often is enough to achieve compliance with a request to speak to a medical personnel. Sometimes in the event of great suffering, this is worthwhile to get the ball rolling as being too timid in these cases doesn't always get the attention required for the suffering to be alleviated.

Have you considered if Mrs. McKay is NOT EVEN THERE?

Have you considered she is ill herself with arthritis and it would not exactly be as easy for her perhaps to GET Dave McKay to DO ANYTHING AGAINST HIS WILL but if she had the backing of 10 strong young people, who would verify her concerns with medical persons of who could reason with David McKay it could HELP HER AND DAVID MCKAY BOTH? After all if a man is suffering from DEMENTIA he is NOT TO BLAME for a breakdown or strange behavior. I also even suggest there has been the need for aid for DAVID for years perhaps as no one normal would behave in the anti social way he does.

I also CAN have EVERY SINGLE SYMPATHY for Mrs. Johnson. I care deeply what has happened to that family but all that rather is a given as anyone would feel terrible for what McKay has put them through. I feel a might concern for Joe if he just gave a kidney. I have emailed Mrs. Johnson to express concerns and support.

I also hope we can respect each others opinions on this board and not turn on people who disagree in any pack like fashion reminiscent of The Jesus Christian Forum where anyone who didn't "go along to get along" got whacked.

I have every concern for each Jesus Christian (former---whatever), every concern for folks who have been hurt by cults, I have every respect for people like Malcolm Wrest and other ex members who left and continue to care what happens to others to the degree they have enraged McKay against themselves NEEDLESSLY-if they were selfish people they could have "faded" quietly but instead they have stood up to McKay and the cult.

I also have respect for Rick Ross for his work against all cults. I have appreciation and respect for individuals such as BlackHat, Apollo,Zeuszor, Stoic, Yasmin, BigStinkWeed and anyone else who cares enough for others to speak up knowing you will get an attack launched on you by the likes of Denise Matteau and McKay. Please have respect for my opinions too and accept that I won't gang up on a sick man IF I find out the rumor of his mental failing is correct. Thus far we have ONLY his word and my value for McKay's word is ZERO. I'm not even convinced of the disbanding as that has come from a known liar ONLY and McKay-same actually as the parrot gets fed her crumbs and speaks on command in many cases, I feel.

How do we know if DM and DM are LYING?

If they are POSTING-----THEY ARE LYING.


In MY opinion neither of them have an OUNCE of credibility so at this time I am willing to continue to speak out against McKay because he's bragging that he's lying and playing idiotic games but if I did see valid proof that he is a truly sick man, with a medical condition that is causing this tragic and embarrassing behavior---------------THEN, NO I WILL NOT ATTACK A GENUINELY SICK MAN.

There is a difference to me between a valid health issue and someone like dsm who has bragged that she claims "crazy" when it suits her so that she can attack people and feel sure she can escape responsibility for her evil. My personal opinion of her is that she seems warped, jealous, bitter and truly evil because I've never encountered anyone who is willing to disgrace themselves and their so called Christianity, to malign others with out and out lies as she does. She's stalked people, invaded personal lives and attached herself to David McKay like a maggot on dead meat. The "dead meat" has used her services and denounces her when it suits his purposes and this needy, pathetic, rejected creature still goes back for more, not so much because she believes in McKay but because she LOVES to be able to throw full blown rages for an audience, thinking this somehow makes her look important when in reality she's become a laughing stock and a joke....and the subject of legal actions, I understand. If I were her, I would be highly concerned that she and McKay might end up BOTH with forced interventions but I expect it would be her DREAM to even share a padded cell with her idol.

Again, I put every single person and every family, including McKay's own who has suffered under the hands of the dark hearted cruel McKay, at the head of the line for sympathy and compassion but I still have enough left over for a broken, failed old man who claims he can't keep his thoughts straight anymore and who MAY HAVE been abandoned. If he's LYING AGAIN-that says plenty about him and nothing about me.

What has happened (or should I say, 'what is happening' since it is a journey as well as a desitnation?) with the community seems to be to the benifit of the kingdom of Heaven. And I do mean the 'disband. For the supporters of the community, this gives a chance for the community to do more closly what they have been saying for years. For the opponents, then ex members are free from Dave's control, as it has been said.
Yes I have had my agreements and dissagreements with the recent practices with the Jesus Christians. Who hasn't? Things are and feel different now. All of us let's pray for each other and hope that our unity with God will go on passed our earthly groupings. Dave included.

Styxxx,
I hate to raise this issue as you have made some good contributions here but in this last post you are sounding awfully like Agur, Lady Jane, Verity Evangeline, Sisi,---- any other alter ego's I've left out?

How does a professing christian square the contradiction between agreeing to abide by the forum rules which preclude rejoining as another identity and your very, very familiar style of posting?
How much is the word of a professing christian worth?

For someone with so much to say about respect, you don't seem to be displaying much for us----- or for the board or the rules you agreed to abide by.