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falling_leaves
regarding the facts, yeah I agree that dave was a member of the cogs back in 70 whatever it was. I didnt mean to make it sound like I disagreed with that cause Ive seen before that even dave admits to that. I guess the part about your warning that sticks out the most to me is the "notorious" part, because I don't think the cogs were notorious for comics or teachings on forsaking all. I've never been one with an abundance of common sense but what little I do have tells me the word refers to sex scandal. It would probably be more accurate to put a warning like "dave (guy who is self confessed impatient)" or "dave (guy who is sarcastic a lot) rather than some kind of notorious warning which anyone would automatically associate with sex scandal. Does that make sense? I hope you don't feel this is a personal attack on you. I'm really quite clumbsy when it comes to expresing myself so I hope you'll be patient with me.

You're correct when you say Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') is impatient and sarcastic, putting it kindly. I'd also say Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') is narcissistic, uncompassionate, controlling, manipulative, contradictory, bullying, unforgiving and vengeful. We've all said our piece with regards to Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') and his connections to that particular cult. We disagree on a few issues though in time you may be able to look at things more rationally. You're still in the early stages of recovery. There is one thing which we all agree on and that's that Dave McKay is a former member of the notorious ''Children of God'', that is a fact. To this day Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') continues to be heavily influenced by ''Moses'' David Berg and it's important that we highlight that for the benefit of any newcomers to the thread. Now this may offend you however i'm afraid it's something you're just going to have to deal with if you decide you wish to continue posting on this forum.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 10:39PM by Apollo.

hello again. thanks for the responses. i really appreciate that people are sharing with me. hello, I don't know anything about any special pm powers on the jc forum or any special group meeting. if they existed no one ever told me about it. my understanding was that all pm functions were shut down to prevent rumors and stuff. Where did you hear about it?

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...funnily enough(tragically really), his stock response was when the COG's began to follow Moses Davids (and not God) they became F(o)OLs......a pun on the Family of Love acronym

Thanks for clarifying that Malcolm as it seems you have heard what I've been saying on this issue regarding the lack of connection to the cogs sex teachings. I hope this will be a step towards helping to fix up some of the earlier tensions we had.

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i'm afraid it's something you're just going to have to deal with if you decide you wish to continue posting on this forum.

I think I'm not understanding you apollo. Is Malcolm in trouble for saying that dave called them fools?

can one member of the forum actually ban other members like that (if that's what you are saying cause I'm not sure if I am misunderstanding what you are saying. please correct me if I'm way off here.)? I've already said that I'll try to be very careful about how I come across in my opinions and feelings because I get the feeling that some people here are annoyed with me. I'm trying to keep it rational, though.

After rereading your post Im still feeling like scrathing my head. Are you asking me to say that dave was promoting the free sex thing even when he wasn't (according to Malcolm)? Because I would feel really uncomfortable if you are asking me to do that.

Any "special ed" in this area would be really appreciated. thanks.

DM is considered notorious because he disrupts the lives of the people he influences. It's unfortunate that so many people fail to recognize his modus of operenda. As you can see Malcolm has a distinct ability to face the "monster" of his past. He is very strong, compassionate, and committed to educating the public. That is perhaps why both he and Zeuszor are constantly attacked by DM and his followers. What makes Malcolm so commendable is his ability to rise above the muck.

My gut feeling is that falling leaves has to open his mind to the truth about the JCs or XJCs. I suspect that despite the most recent "disbanding" Dave continues to have a lot of influence.

Falling Leaves, I hope you don't read too much into what I am saying but DM has a very very bad reputation. I hope you will eventually come to terms with what has happened to your life. I continue to support you in your transition.

Thank you very much for your input "hello". I could not agree with you more. I'm sorry but I am going to point directly at the elephant in the room. I don't accept that falling_leaves is a former Jesus Christian *actual member* based on several misstatements of fact and the attitude of complete tentativeness doesn't fly. The Jesus Christians have been TRAINED and FORCED FED complete HATRED of this site and of Rick Ross and any members who post here. I find it completely unbelievable that any genuine former Jesus Christian is going to come, apprehensively, shyly and so very overly civil when for YEARS it's been nothing but total contempt for this forum.

I don't like the idea of anyone making "sport" of the situation or aiming to create some "set up" so they can gloat that they have "put one over" on the "hate" site. I feel protective of people who have been brave enough to speak out against cults because they do run the risk of being abused. We are all aware of what Denise Matteau has been doing with her ferocious, self-indulgent blogs, defaming people and her malevolent videos where she maligns reputations so that she can get some attention from a man she seems to have developed some schoolgirl crush on. She is so desperate for his acceptance and in her lonely life, she sees him as someone who will admire her “balls” and give her more attention the more despicable and ridiculous she gets against his enemies. She appears menacing and it’s tragic for her as anyone who views those videos and reads her blog, knows there seems to be a severe crisis occurring in her thought process. She seems unable to understand the damage she is doing to herself and what she is risking all for someone who had denounced her in so many ways, yet continues to use her for as long as he needs her. Alleviating desperation and loneliness must make it worthwhile to her and for that she makes a pathetic specter.

falling_leaves-If you are a genuine former Jesus Christian seeking help, then I am sorry if I offend you but your posts simply don't read correctly. You have much more the tone of Glen or Al, who because they were NOT actual Jesus Christians, would not know some details as hello pointed out or have access to everything that a bona fide Jesus Christian would. Every single Jesus Christian that I have encountered has been combative, confrontational and aggressive even when speaking on the most trivial of topics. They are anti establishment and anti authority and I would describe many of them as anarchists. Most if not all, are extremely rebellious towards the system and would be more likely to openly challenge Rick and other posters here, at least on SOME points. I don’t see them being so self-effacing and quick to apologize, worrying if they are stepping on toes etc. Their personalities have been so ingrained for so long and I don’t see anyone going from outspoken opposition to absolutely reticent, overly affable subdued concern if they are posting properly or breaking rules etc. The Jesus Christian I know prided themselves on being able to argue their cases effectively and would not be hesitant to speak bluntly around a handful of people who might disagree. You don’t seem like you are actually “against” David McKay so that’s why I find it odd you would come here. I could buy it if you came here and were vehemently speaking against the cult but you seem to imply there is still friendship with McKay and others members. I know how deferential Jesus Christians are towards David and how they do not like to irk him in any way and I can’t see David being happy with any “graduated” Jesus Christian suddenly showing up on the site that he hates the most. I am not saying that there is not a "nice" side to each Jesus Christian or that they are incapable of being polite, I just don't see any real former Jesus Christian coming to THIS site, with the temperament you are displaying. I believe they would be FAR more likely to visit the ex J.C. site where there has been a more passive attitude and where there is a less aggressive position taken about David McKay.

Now, people change and everyone is welcome here, I have no more rights here that you do falling_leaves. I am not a spokesperson for anyone else and I don't claim to be right even but I have been following your posts and thinking.

I think it's unfortunate if anyone would attempt to throw a monkey wrench into the so called "graduation" of Jesus Christians by trying to create drama and suspicion but sadly the past has shown us there is so much "trolling". McKay himself takes pleasure in creating enemies and false personas. For example his Anita Foster deception and also his manipulations of people who are willing to do his dirty work for him. This summer he had that Peter Strong person, who almost joined the Jesus Christians, amped up and set against Sheila Johnson until McKay turned on Strong and Strong exposed him by posting emails from McKay where Strong was encouraged to attack a mother, who was trying to communicate with her estranged son. He has used others who want attention from him, to "spy" on forum members and report back to him. At one point when there was a so called "ban" on Jesus Christians visiting the critic’s forums, he was more than happy to send Glen over and have him report back to David, so David could circumvent the ban. That's McKay all over.

I believe for any former Jesus Christian to visit this forum they would have to be exasperated or enraged with McKay and that feeling would come through in their postings. I don't believe they would seem so eager to "fit in" and to just go along with people here. It doesn't fit even if you have left the Jesus Christians, if you were now anti cult; I believe you would speak AGAINST the cult or AGAINST McKay as vehemently as you once spoke against this forum and its founder.

I would prefer to speak my thoughts directly that to be “murmuring” behind your back. Although we speak joke around at times, anyone exiting a cult is worthy of support and encouragement but I would not like to see this forum used as a playground for people who are simply attempting to stir up controversy and to create more negative feelings between the 2 sides. You must understand why someone might be unconvinced after all the animosity there has been towards this site. A "former" Jesus Christian suddenly appearing here and being so so so genteel, so accommodating just doesn't fit in MY humble opinion. Again, I accept that I could be wrong and this post isn’t meant to be an attack, I am voicing my opinion and you are welcome to respond or not.

Dear Styxx,

I must say that I also have been concerned with some of the issues you have raised here....no doubt "falling leaves" would understand that, as he/she presumably has had first hand experience of the "JC" mindset that is indoctrinated in one, by McKay...no doubt some clarification will be offered in due course...it took me a l-o-n-g time to see through the fabrications that I had been fed.....

(I will comment a little later on the famous passages of Lifton, that you referred me to....a very cutting analysis in my opinion, of the "process"...)

im with styxx on this.dont mean to go after any one but i question if a real jc is going to come to the site that has been considered hate site and enemy for so long. if they did id expect they might want to be wary at the start and not friendly. unless its a case that they were so bullied down and forced by mackay to appear to hate this site and consider ever one here as liars. if so i would think theyd say that mackay advised them to only speak bad of this site. now they were free to be themselves they feel differnt. but the tone falling leaves is giving is that all is cool and friendly with mackay.

i find it hard to beleive macaky would ever be cool with any of his members talking here in a freindly way. existing or past members included. i think mackay would see that as a huge betrayel and hes a person whos insecure and has a big but fragile ego.he takes offence at the slightest percieved cross so this all doesnt jive.

i have to say given the silly way mackay is acting on his site, gosiping and tripping round from site to site then comming back to talk to his only little fiend.hes such a embarasment to himself, the man has no real dignity about him.he seems for real like he's come unglued.god i hope the disbanding is true b/c i dont think he seems safe to be a round the way he's behaving now. it's a craziville circus over there with 2 freaks fighting for center ring.hope they knock each other out so they cant hurt anyone else. youd think they would read over there crap and be ashamed to be 2 old people acting like escapies from lunatic assylums. seriously. they need hospitals.

Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') now accepts i'm not Craig Henry however he's adamant that i'm actually Brian. I'm sure next week i'll be someone else, well, as long as he's having fun eh.

Anyway, last night McKay made a huge post about Brian. It must have taken him hours to concoct. He had analysed posts Brian had made from 2006 right through the whole of 2007. Brian appears to have become quite an obsession for a very lonely Dave McKay. Most of that post was then quickly edited out which appears to be a common theme with Dave's recent postings. It's almost manic-like the way Dave spends hours concocting these posts and then quickly edits most of it out. We also recently had the rather hilarious incident where Dave by mistake created a new thread titled ''Anita Foster'' whilst speaking for ''Consort'' Cherry under the username ''Dave''. A truly humiliating and embarrassing episode for Dave which he so desperately attempted to brush under the carpet.

Now this recent behaviour may well just be a case of McKay going senile or there may well be some hidden agenda, who knows, this man is sick in the head so anything is possible...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2010 05:17PM by Apollo.

I fail to understand why Davejc is so obssessed with 'unmasking' the various posters here.

Could it simply be that he is now denied his favourite game of scapegoating his own members and posters, having taken sole possession of the JC forum, so has to look further afield to fuel his paranoid fantasies and his pathetic rationalisations of his own conduct?

Regardless of who is posting here under whatever screen name, the truth will eventually out. I have enough confidence in the readers here to eventually smell an obvious rat and not be too shocked by yet another such revelation that all is not as it seems at first glance.

Thats the real difference, Davejc is desperately trying to prove something--that he is always right and that his controlling view, regardless of how it changes over time, is nevertheless the only view worthy of merit. The control of the view is the issue with him, not the truthfulness of the view.

Here there is a multiplicity of viewpoints, with no one controlling view--just like the real world.

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Stoic
I fail to understand why Davejc is so obssessed with 'unmasking' the various posters here.

Could it simply be that he is now denied his favourite game of scapegoating his own members and posters, having taken sole possession of the JC forum, so has to look further afield to fuel his paranoid fantasies and his pathetic rationalisations of his own conduct?

Regardless of who is posting here under whatever screen name, the truth will eventually out. I have enough confidence in the readers here to eventually smell an obvious rat and not be too shocked by yet another such revelation that all is not as it seems at first glance.

Thats the real difference, Davejc is desperately trying to prove something--that he is always right and that his controlling view, regardless of how it changes over time, is nevertheless the only view worthy of merit. The control of the view is the issue with him, not the truthfulness of the view.

Here there is a multiplicity of viewpoints, with no one controlling view--just like the real world.

In a cult, abusive organization, or abusive relationship it does not matter if the information presented is true. If it is negative about the group or any member of the group, then you cannot say it. Usually such negative information will be will be labeled as slander, and if one persists in speaking it or writing it one can be disciplined severely, ultimately with expulsion from the group, or, if one is an outsider speaking ill about or being at all critical of the group, one can be demonized, dehumanized, poked fun at, humiliated, or what have you.

The process of group building, when it becomes abusive, creates a system that is mutually addictive to both founder(s) and followers. The followers need the founder/leader to make them feel that they are realizing the proffered goal; the founder/leader needs his followers (some call them the leader's "narcissistic supply") to make him feel successful, powerful, and truly enlightened.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2010 07:27PM by zeuszor.

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Stoic
I fail to understand why Davejc is so obssessed with 'unmasking' the various posters here.

It's now just become a 'game' to McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God''). That clearly shines through in his childish and manic postings.

His whole sad and sorry existence is now built around an obsession he has with the two forums which is something he specifically ordered his followers to refrain from doing. He now spends almost day and night meticulously analysing the two forums word for word, desperately trying to identify various posters. This is how Dave McKay now lives his life. This is now what Dave McKay considers ''following Jesus''.

It must be a very sad and lonely life for ''Consort'' Cherry. It now appears ''Consort'' Cherry is competing with a computer and some old nutcase halfway around the world for her husbands attention. It does appear to be a complete sham of a marriage. I expect McKay after all these years has ''Consort'' Cherry programmed to accept the backbencher role she's been given in this sham of a marriage. The majority of his time is without doubt spent online either obsessing over the two forums or defending his ''mistress'' and poor old ''Consort'' Cherry is left with the scraps. ''Consort'' Cherry is now no more than McKay's ''lacky''.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2010 07:50PM by Apollo.