Quote
zeuszor
You seem like a total loon to me Dave, seriously.

The difference between neurosis and psychosis

Nuerosis is believing in floating castles in the sky

Psychosis is living in them.

Which are you Dave?

From the Jesus Christian August '06 newsletter:


"... we have been searching for some very short explanation for what we hope to accomplish. We feel that it is best summed up in "hating sin, but
loving the sinner". Part of hating sin is being certain that there
is some kind of penalty for sin, whereas loving the sinner is all
about being willing to take that penalty on behalf of the sinner. We
are hoping that our action will be a model to challenge the cheap
grace that is being talked about in so many places these days."

So, I don't get it Dave. The whole point of the trial and the whippings was to take the penalty for the Johnson family for the assault on Reinhardt, right? To show your love for and grace toward them? ("...whereas loving the sinner is all about being willing to take that penalty on behalf of the sinner.") So why did Reinhardt and yourself so aggessively pursue pressing charges against the Johnsons? You and the others already took a punishment for what happened (and I am sorry that you were attacked too, Reinhardt. That's horrible) so why have the Johnsons arrested? Isn't that hypocritical? Isn't this whole thing really about your pathological need for manipulation, domination, and control? Luring them in and controlling them through fear and degradation? You are like a serial killer in that respect. You are seriously deluded and the type of person that society must be protected from. I will be on your tail.

view discussion on this link re
donors

[www.livingdonorsonline.org]

Thanks *******

Dave is explaining his actions on the Quaker forum too



[forum.quakers.org.au]

[forum.quakers.org.au]




BTW Thanks *******

Has someone posted a link at the Quaker forum to the Fox news report?

They should see the way the group operates under Dave's leadership.

see [www.abc.net.au]

I got this from this URL:

[welikejesus.com]

"David Rutledge: If we look at the practice that some Jesus Christians have made of kidney donation: last year, when the law in NSW said that you’re not allowed to make a kidney donation to a stranger, members of the Jesus Christians who wanted to donate a kidney lied to health authorities, and led them to believe that they had long-term relationships with prospective recipients when they actually didn’t. What did you think of that? Did you approve of that?

Dave McKay: Definitely. Every decision we make, we have to measure the means up against the ends. Tell a lie, save a life. That’s the means and that’s the end. Now, 'have sex with somebody to get a new member', that’s another means and end. And so we have to weigh each one up individually.

David Rutledge: But the Jesus Christians community isn’t just anybody, this is a small group - I would say a vulnerable group - who have this sort of cult baggage around them, that I assume you’d like to get rid of. And to that end, wouldn’t complete openness and transparency be an advantage?

Dave McKay: It was open. We were the ones that went and publicly told the media we'd told a lie. Our teaching is: if you must tell a lie, be honest about your dishonesty.

David Rutledge: Dave McKay, leader of the Jesus Christians movement "

So, it's OK to lie when the end justifies the means, Dave?

Quote
matilda
Thanks *******

Dave is explaining his actions on the Quaker forum too



[forum.quakers.org.au]

[forum.quakers.org.au]




BTW Thanks *******

Someone nees to tell the Quakers that it wasn't just the whipping in LA, but also a whipping of a volunteer in their community in Kenya. I am sure they would be interested in the bit of information, before it breaks in the media.

Thanks to ever added it to the forum, if it was anybody from here. It helps to give the Quakers on that forum a more rounded picture of the group. It seems they are not too happy with the idea of his group whipping people. It is a testament to Dave's lack of critical thinking skills that he thinks they would come to agree with him.

If this is an example of how Dave speaks of his own brother and mother on a public forum, what can his followers, children or grand-children expect?

[b:9bfd2f0d07]"I remember the day my brother listened in to a phone conversation between [sic] and my very religious mother, and heard her directly contradicting what she had just said to him. He was so shocked, because he is a mama-worshiper who just believed that she never told lies. But, of course, she did... over and over. "[/b:9bfd2f0d07]

SOURCE: [welikejesus.com] (accessed 13 Nov. 2006)

Your shocking behavior is being shouted from the roof tops Dave. What ever happened to your teachings about not back stabbing people? Hopefully some exposure might help you treat your family members with more respect. Your behavior is truly reprehensible.

The following represent [b:aeff7a4576]some [/b:aeff7a4576]traits of a typically 'cultic' scenario, common to high demand groups with a tremendous potential for damage.
How familair do these sound to you?[/size:aeff7a4576]



1. New recruits will be instructed to keep their intentions quiet or secret from their friends and family, until after they have joined and/ or disappeared, fuelling a great deal of worry and distress. Instead of encouraging contact with the family of a potential recruit to discuss the issue with them, the leader encourages the recruit to deceive or distance themselves from all former contacts. From his point of view, this reduces the risk of the recruit having a change of heart.


2. Once the member is in the group, he/she will spend a prolonged period of time away from all former contacts until they have assimilated the entire group package. Ultimately recruits need the leaders consent to speak to friends/ family and, if this is allowed, they will often be accompanied and supervised.


3 .A new routine is quickly established where the member is kept very busy, distributing literature, studying the leaders teachings, sitting through long meetings, writng frequent and regular reports, writing letters to potential recruits with the little time left for recreation spent on group activities such as the group runs and tournament board games. Group think and polarised thinking prevails


4. Recruits who question the authority,as some do, may find themselves isolated within the group. Some will be thrown out of the group in a foreign country, without a passport or any support. Some will beg to return, because at that stage and in that place, the group is the only thing they know. Individuals may face punishments such as missing a meal or be called to a grievance meeting , where they are berated in the presence of the group who put pressure on them to conform.


5. Members are led to believe that spiritual and sincere individuals must forsake their former lives entirely, and remodel their behaviour and values, emulating the leader (God's prophet) and senior group members.
This may involve the member doing things they would normally consider to be wrong eg telling lies.


6. Ex members are shunned by the group. They are considered to be apostates with reprobate minds who have turned their back on God. Their potential to question is interpreted by the leader as troublemaking, causing division and persecution.


7. Members are encouraged to be 'spiritual' or ruthless and tireless in their displays of loyalty to the leader. They are encouraged to FEAR apostasy more than death.


8. Ex members who were born into the group (2nd generation) or brought in as children, may feel superior to, and experience difficulty relating to first generation ex members or those who were activily recruited.


9. The group bears no responsibility or concern for the retired or ex member.


10. The leader does not believe that he/ she should be held publicly accountable.


11. The world outside, the system is believed to be under the devil’s influence and avoided.


12 Leaders influence or charisma is used to manipulate and deceive outsiders about the true nature of the group.


How familair ?

(It is good to see that the heated rhetoric of the last week has subsided )