Well, I won't spare anybody anything. Here we go; all hail Jimi. Please rise:

[www.youtube.com]

"Will our bad body odour keep you from entering into the Kingdom?"

...the arrogance here, is sad evidence of Casey psychologically "assimilating" the values of McKay....(who would think himself entitled to rudely point out to those who failed the "faith" (i.e. they did not turn over all that they owned to McKay Inc. and submit themselves to "Godly servitude¨), how despicable they were.... pig-headedly overlooking the "pearl of great price"

Casey taking McKays´ prostitution of these passages....


57And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

58And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.

59And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.

60Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

61And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.

62And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

...to justify why it is quite reasonable to abuse those who decline membership of the JC´s (as a last resort recruiting tactic to bully those insecure enough to be so threatened, into complying with membership)


Whereas Casey really fails altogether to consider the import of the verses immediately prior to these....not knowing what manner of spirit he dutifully, blithely copies from the sick example of David McKay.


51And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,

52And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.

53And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

54And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

55But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

56For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.


Strangely enough, a precept of Christ(the repudiation of retaliation in general, but particularly that which "justifies" itself on the grounds of theological conformity) that I don´t recall David McKay particularly harping on......during my years of servitude....

The J man knew what he was doing when he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem and would not let himself be distracted.
Even the Samaritans could see his resolve because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.


Young confused people just starting out are unable to have this resolve as they simply don't know enough to make such a firm decision. They are in the position of finding out about the world and trying things out, testing themselves and the reactions of the world to themselves.

'go to Jerusalem' presumably means that the J man was going to meet his fate, whatever that turned out to be--and he did it steadfastly, refusing to be distracted by the drama of a mini war along the way.

Dave McKay is the supreme distraction for anyone truly seeking to serve their god.
The only one who will be served is Dave McKay, surely that is not the meaning of those old verses that have stood the test of time as something worth passing down the generations.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2011 04:21PM by Stoic.

And now, some more thoughts about The Wave, relating more directly to the theme of nurturing vs. coercion:

At one point, speaking about his class's renewed order, which is coming about as a result of the new "game" that they are playing, Mr. Ross states: "It's as if they wanted to be disciplined."

This is a profound statement, in my opinion.

I believe that Mr. Ross is in fact correct, that most teenagers wants at least some discipline. They may not always be consciously aware that they want it, and they certainly won't tell their parents that they want discipline, but without it they often feel insecure, lacking direction.

It is a truism that to be in one's teens and early twenties is a most difficult period of life; young people, such as the young people Mr. and Mrs. McKay seem to target, are in a major transition period of life from childhood to adulthood. They are beginning to take on or be given greater responsibility over their own lives, making decisions for themselves that some authority-parents, teachers, etc.-formerly made for them. This can be either a heady experience or an unsettling one, often both at the same time. If some one older (like Mr. McKay) comes along and offers guidance, even in the form of discipline,this can be experienced as relief from the pressure of decision-making.

Later on in the film, Mr. Ross states, "It's amazing how much they like you when you make decisions for them."

This to me is another profound statement, and it is a corollary of the first statement ("It's as if they wanted to be disciplined.") Adolescence and early adulthood is a notoriously difficult period of life. It is a transition from childhood to adulthood, with young people wanting and being able to make more decisions for themselves. Decisions that an authority (teacher, parent, etc.) formerly made for them they are now having to make for themselves. And they are having to think about their futures: what career should they pursue? What do they want to look for in a potential mate? What do they believe about the meaning of life? This can be a bit unsettling, even scary, for a lot of young people. If somebody like Mr. and Mrs. McKay come along and offers "assistance" in the form of quick and easy "answers" to these questions (in the form of "forsaking all"), or even to make some or most of those decisions for them, then this can be experienced as a major relief.

I believe that this is how and why the McKays generally only succeed in enticing people to join the Jesus Christians, when the potential recruits are barely adults.

Further, I would not be surprised if Mr. McKay at some point watched The Wave when designing his cult, or had at least read of Ron Jones and The Third Wave experiment. Mr. McKay is a very eclectic cult leader indeed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2011 07:40PM by zeuszor.

I've been writing about (and writing to, in the form of these posts) Casey for years. Check this out. I was posting this stuff almost three years ago as "Crazy Amos." A lot of what I've been posting here lately is recycled, older material.

[jcs.xjcs.org]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2011 07:54PM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor
I believe that Mr. Ross is in fact correct, that most teenagers wants at least some discipline. They may not always be consciously aware that they want it, and they certainly won't tell their parents that they want discipline, but without it they often feel insecure, lacking direction.

It is a truism that to be in one's teens and early twenties is a most difficult period of life; young people, such as the young people Mr. and Mrs. McKay seem to target, are in a major transition period of life from childhood to adulthood. They are beginning to take on or be given greater responsibility over their own lives, making decisions for themselves that some authority-parents, teachers, etc.-formerly made for them. This can be either a heady experience or an unsettling one, often both at the same time. If some one older (like Mr. McKay) comes along and offers guidance, even in the form of discipline,this can be experienced as relief from the pressure of decision-making.

Later on in the film, Mr. Ross states, "It's amazing how much they like you when you make decisions for them."

This to me is another profound statement, and it is a corollary of the first statement ("It's as if they wanted to be disciplined.") Adolescence and early adulthood is a notoriously difficult period of life. It is a transition from childhood to adulthood, with young people wanting and being able to make more decisions for themselves. Decisions that an authority (teacher, parent, etc.) formerly made for them they are now having to make for themselves. And they are having to think about their futures: what career should they pursue? What do they want to look for in a potential mate? What do they believe about the meaning of life? This can be a bit unsettling, even scary, for a lot of young people. If somebody like Mr. and Mrs. McKay come along and offers "assistance" in the form of quick and easy "answers" to these questions (in the form of "forsaking all"), or even to make some or most of those decisions for them, then this can be experienced as a major relief.

This is a fantastic posting, and I will save it as a reference. Thanks for your insight, zeuszor. Your analysis of what Rick Ross said is terrific. I give you an A.

The teacher in The Wave is named Mr. Ross, ironically enough. It was he that I was referring to, not RR.

What the? I haven't seen The Wave, so misread it on that account. Nonetheless, I really like your exposition.

There has been no hint that Mr. and Mrs. McKay actually need such a doppelganger as Casey as their spokesperson, but, by all appearances, as far as Casey is concerned that doesn't matter. He does not want to wait for another actual incidence of persecution to occur, he wants to prevent further threats to his security from arising. Groups like the Jesus Christians actually thrive off of perceived persecution.

Casey reminds me of that kid Robert in The Wave, who volunteers to be Mr. Ross' bodyguard. Robert starts to dress like Mr. Ross, talk like Mr. Ross, follow Mr. Ross around, etc.

Mr. McKay and the Jesus Christians have made Casey feel good about himself, probably for the first time in his life, and Casey wants to do everything he can to make sure that nothing further happens to expose the Jesus Christians and hurt the credibility of the man and group that have given him his new-found improved self-image.

Casey's is a very typical position in most cult groups. People outside of the group are viewed either as potential members or potential enemies of the group. They are not usually considered appropriate for friendships-whether close or casual.

All cults and abusive organizations view themselves as engaged in some all-important work, whether it is to convert lost souls, spread "The Truth," improve the well-being of members, or simply raise money. Nothing can be permitted to interfere with this all-important mission.

Casey's is a classic expression of the "end justifies the means" argument. This is a terrible concept under the best of circumstances, as it permits deception and other unethical behavior in the pursuit of "good" goals. It is especially heinous when followed in the name of God.

Casey (and all of the Jesus Christians for that matter) needs to learn that his importance and worth as a person does not depend on any role or function that he fills in a group-his value (and that of all people) rests in the fact that he is a human being. One is not more valuable because one possesses a high IQ, has forsaken all to follow Jesus, has many possessions, lives in a three-story mansion, or lives on a farm in Kenya.

After all, it is the Jesus Christians that make Casey feel so good about himself-so self-confident and worthwhile, probably for the first time in his life. He may believe that he has no options outside of the group, and that is not a happy prospect for him.

So rather than receive the message, he attacks the messenger through use of the ad hominem attack. After a certain point it seems that Casey is unable to refute the logical, objective arguments put to him and so he does what people often do in such a situation: he attacks the Jesus Christians' critics personally. If one party to a dispute can discredit the other party in some way, then it is easier to to discredit that person's arguments. This is what the Jesus Christians engage in time after time, argument for the sake of argument, and it is quite a pedantic and tiresome tactic.

[video.google.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2011 12:31AM by zeuszor.

A good film the 'Wave,' I've watched it a couple of times since first finding on this site...and then bought the book.