Quote
Apollo
KC was probably another troubled teenager who was at war with the world. Those troubled teenagers are fair game to McKay.

He is somone who was willing to push his body to the absolute limit, to show his loyalty to the Apostle. Liver's, Kidney's, whippings, you name it he's done it.

''Very frankly, I have very little respect for anybody who is still loyal to DM after all this time. Anybody that still cannot see through him, must be a jerk too.''

Completely agree with you. The longer they stay in the cult the more bitter they become and the less respect and sympathy I have for them. Take Joe for example -- I have absolutely no respect left for him after what he's put his family through. It has gone on too long now. He's no longer a naive teenager. The guy must have no conscience. I honestly do not know how he can live with himself.

Like a spoiled child, David McKay wants what David McKay wants when David McKay wants it. Whatever it takes for David McKay to get what he wants is, as far as David McKay is concerned, perfectly acceptable behavior.

Those, like KC, who believe that David McKay is the most God-connected human on earth in the last couple of thousand years become-where David McKay is concerned-psychopaths, too. His loyal followers will do anything to make David McKay happy. All the laws of society and human decency are subservient to The Law of God, and David McKay’s desires are the closest thing we have on Earth to God’s Pure Law.

Some of David McKay’s followers, who wouldn’t dream of hurting anyone in any other circumstances, would hurt any person or break any law if they thought it was necessary to get what David McKay (God’s Apostle) what he (God’s Apostle) wanted. Perhaps psychiatry should add a new subcategory to psychopathy: the spiritual psychopath. These are the upright, moral, and do-no-harm people except when David’s Will is involved. David McKay is a pure psychopath; he creates spiritual psychopaths.

I should know. I've studied this group for years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2011 07:51PM by zeuszor.

Have no illusions: David McKay thinks nothing of hurting or even destroying anyone in order to get what he wants. This allows him to lie, cheat, steal, deceive, embarrass, humiliate, threaten, harass, or use physical force or violence without even a twinge of guilt, shame, or fear of retribution. David McKay is actually quite proud of his total lack of remorse, claiming that this lack of "negativity" is just another sign of his superior spiritual state.

Different people have given different reasons as to the cause of David McKay's narcissistic personality and psychopathic behavior.

Some say that as David McKay became increasingly surrounded by sycophants-he actually started to believe that he was God's Apostle. Others say it's an ongoing mental degeneration caused by problems with his physical health, and their after-effects. Others say that he was non-neurotypical from birth (in other words, he may be a person on the autism spectrum) and has never in his life gotten along well with others. It is also possible that David McKay abuses prescription drugs and/or alcohol, and that his judgement and behavior may be impaired as a consequence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2011 08:17PM by zeuszor.

Doubtless we'll shortly be hearing David and KC cry "slander" as a response to my recent posts on the topic of KC and the source(s) from which KC derives his self esteem, as well as his sense of personal validation. Any criticism of any of them will be automatically be interpreted as "slander" and/or "persecution" as we all well know. I would encourage KC to try and remain objective and rational in reflecting on the concepts that I have introduced to the discussion.

Here are a few more of my thoughts; my purpose in expressing them would be to head off such accusations, and address a few more points for the sake of clarity, before David and his Mini-Me can play the "slander card" yet again.

In a cult, abusive organization, abusive relationship, or dysfunctional family it does not matter if the information presented is true. If it is negative about the group or any member of the group, then you cannot say it.

This is an important point. Remember that.

Usually such negative information will be will be labeled as "slander", and if one persists in speaking it or writing it one can be disciplined severely, ultimately with expulsion from the group, or, if one is an outsider speaking ill about or being at all critical of the group, one can be demonized, dehumanized, poked fun at, humiliated, or what have you.

David is clever enough to use KC as his positive example, his poster boy, his doppelganger. First, this is probably the first time in KC's life that-at least, in his memory-he has been used as a positive role model. This must feel very good to KC, and he doubtless is anxious to receive David's approval again and again. He knows that in order to get David's approval again, he must continue to comply with David's coercions, which are disguised as "loving suggestions" or some such.

David's pointing to KC as the example of a "good disciple" has a powerful effect on the rest of those who are loyal to David. It tells them that if KC can do this, certainly they can-and they'd better-perform better than KC, because no one wants to look worse than KC does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2011 08:07PM by zeuszor.

'David's pointing to KC as the example of a "good disciple" has a powerful effect on the rest of those who are loyal to David. It tells them that if KC can do this, certainly they can-and they'd better-perform better than KC, because no one wants to look worse than KC does.'

Its a classic control tactic in a group--it keeps the group busy striving to perform better than the nominated one and so earn accolades themselves but it is at the same time subtly divisive, setting up a milieu of competition for favour amongst the group, ensuring that there is no mutual trust or true sharing of perceptions.
It keeps the groups eyes off of the power machinations of Dave McKay--which would otherwise be blatantly obvious---and firmly fixed on competing with the peers for favour from Dave McKay.

The favour from Dave McKay will never be forthcoming--thats not part of the deal at all. As soon as the favoured one begins to relax a bit in the glow of 'esteem', he will be comprehensively trashed, and so reduced once again to a penitent, begging for a bit of positive attention.

Its a vicious circle and the only way out is to walk away.

Regarding the 'walking away,' this article on the Stockholm Syndrome, or why people stay with and protect abusers from criticism was posted on another thread but is applicable here:

[www.culteducation.com]

'Hostage negotiators know that they cannot argue or otherwise talk a delusional individual out of their delusion. They will not listen to the negotiator, or they will somehow incorporate the negotiator into their delusion. They can write off the negotiator off as someone who "just doesn't understand." '



'Not everyone continues to take this abuse and many have successfully altered the behavior within the relationship— or left the relationship to ultimately survive and thrive. We all need to endure the many challenges and traumas of life in ways that preserve our sense of self worth and self-esteem. We don't have to be victims and we don't have to accept abuse at the hands of others, especially a supposed intimate whom we initially trusted and loved and who now hurts us with clock-like regularity. We each have an inner voice that tells us when something is really wrong. In the case of abusive relationships, listen to the voice and then do something about it. Your very life is on the line.'


And there's a great kicker of an ending to this story:

'Oh, and by the way. Remember the Stockholm bank robbery where the hostages gave into their captors? In another similar situation, the police sniper had to shoot an armed hostage-taker who was threatening the lives of two female hostages. When shot, the robber fell to the floor, whereupon his two female hostages picked him up off the floor and held him in front of a window so that he could be shot a second time. (No second shot was needed.)'



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2011 01:40AM by Stoic.

Quote
Stoic
'David's pointing to KC as the example of a "good disciple" has a powerful effect on the rest of those who are loyal to David. It tells them that if KC can do this, certainly they can-and they'd better-perform better than KC, because no one wants to look worse than KC does.'

Its a classic control tactic in a group--it keeps the group busy striving to perform better than the nominated one and so earn accolades themselves but it is at the same time subtly divisive, setting up a milieu of competition for favour amongst the group, ensuring that there is no mutual trust or true sharing of perceptions.
It keeps the groups eyes off of the power machinations of Dave McKay--which would otherwise be blatantly obvious---and firmly fixed on competing with the peers for favour from Dave McKay.

The favour from Dave McKay will never be forthcoming--thats not part of the deal at all. As soon as the favoured one begins to relax a bit in the glow of 'esteem', he will be comprehensively trashed, and so reduced once again to a penitent, begging for a bit of positive attention.

Its a vicious circle and the only way out is to walk away.

In my opinion, KC is sort of the Robert of the JCs. Watch The Wave and you'll see what I mean.

[video.google.com]

'In my opinion, KC is sort of the Robert of the JCs.'


Do you think that he is the one most in need of the group (and authoritarian Dave McKay) and its shoring-up, compensatory qualities for the followers?
Hence his desperation to keep it going and to show his extreme loyalty to Dave McKay and to the cause of keeping it going?

Quote
Stoic
'In my opinion, KC is sort of the Robert of the JCs.'


Do you think that he is the one most in need of the group (and authoritarian Dave McKay) and its shoring-up, compensatory qualities for the followers?
Hence his desperation to keep it going and to show his extreme loyalty to Dave McKay and to the cause of keeping it going?

In a word, yes. KC seems to emulate David the most, more than any of the JCs, at least as far as his public (online) persona is concerned. KC was the one a while back would always work with David in the theologyweb forums and stuff like that; he was like David's sidekick there for a while.

At the time that I first met the JCs in Dallas during the summer of '02, KC and another one of them (both members of the Dallas team) were in Minnesota and both donating their kidneys. This was the period of time in which Kidneys For Jesus was being filmed. So I never met KC, but did meet Fran, who also seemed to really emulate David in his online persona as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2011 07:11AM by zeuszor.

I also exchanged some emails with KC while I was in in the Army and deployed to Iraq, as a matter of fact. Yes, I was emailing the JCs from Baghdad. This is while they were in L.A.

KC was very unfriendly and harsh in tone (surprise) and even a little insulting; from what I remember basically told me that I was a fool for not joining them when the window of opportunity was open, and that I was a spiritual coward for fleeing as I did that day. "Will our bad body odor keep you from entering into the Kingdom?" and all this crap. I wish I'd kept that email, but it's long gone...

I think that all the followers need the group to some degree or other, they wouldn't be in in otherwise and the group provides an escapist means of denial for 'the many challenges and traumas of life' that we all have to inevitably endure.
Dave Mckay promises to take care of all that with his glib interpretations of the world but in fact all he is doing is infantilising the members--preventing them from dealing with the challenges and traumas of life which is where real, not pseudo self-esteem comes from--and so preventing them from having to grow up and be responsible for themselves.

The one who needs the group most of all, though, is Dave McKay.

Even when he's shucked off the current lot of graduates (including you, Casey, no matter how closely you try to emulate him) he will need a new bunch of admirers around him to reflect back what a superior person he is and to protect him from ever seeing what a worthless piece of human flotsam he really is.