Apollo:

I would not recommend Anton Hein to anyone for anything, under any circumstances.

But it seems that he and Steve Hassan have fairly cozy working relationship.

My understanding is that Hein's brother, Ruud Hein, is Hassan's Webmaster.

Hein seems to use religion as a device to leverage himself into favor with various people, who based upon his supposed faith accept whatever spin he puts on his sex offense. Despite my work it never ceases to amaze me how religion can blind some people.

But in Hassan's case it appears he simply finds Hein useful, essentially they promote each other. Though Hassan would dump Hein in a heartbeat if there was any media scrutiny or business blowback regarding his sex offense and/or fugitive status, which linked the two.

But let's stay on topic.

Yes. McKay still seems to be calling the shots and nothing has changed other than his operating strategy, which could change again whenever he decides it's time.

The key to recognizing when McKay has actually lost control is when group members begin to act independently, differently and not in concert like a collective.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2012 05:06AM by rrmoderator.

One must question Mr Hassan's motives for such a cozy working relationship with a paedophile. It would seem he's quite happy to turn a blind eye to Mr Hein's previous conviction for sexually abusing a child as long as it results in promotion and financial gain for his own organization. It tells us all we need to know about Mr Hassan's morals.

It certainly appears McKay is still calling the shots. He continues self promotion on his website and new members are often encouraged to contact him privately. It suggests the doors are still open for business. I don't believe McKay would waste his time speaking to anyone privately unless he feels there is an opportunity to control and manipulate that person for his own future gain.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2012 05:49AM by Apollo.

Apollo:

"Cult leaders" rarely retire.

Being a cult leader beats going out and getting a real job.

It's relatively easy money, compared to actually working regular hours to earn a living.

And the type of person that becomes a cult leader is not interested in submitting to authority, i.e. supervision through a regular job and accountability.

In my opinion Dave McKay fits this profile.

So other than collecting government payments as unearned income I don't imagine McKay finding another way to make money.

Cult leaders also feed off their followers attention and adulation. They feel empowered by controlling and manipulating others.

It can become something like an addiction.

And in my opinion McKayis something like a "junkie" when it comes to this.

My American contacts apparently know nothing about the graduates' activities, and some of them (the grads, I mean) have not been heard from whatsoever in months.

I now realize that I ought to have written earlier, that I'd certainly pay the travel expenses for any graduate who may want help (from whatever professional or in whatever legitimate form), no matter who they go to. Really, I want to help these graduates as much as anybody else.

Today I'll even extend my offer: if there are any American families whose children are involved in this particular (JC) group, and you are trying to plan an intervention for your child/family member/whoever who is involved with the McKays, I'll even help finanically in order to make that happen as well, with whatever professional interventionist of their choice. We can talk about the particulars of this later, as I am of course of limited means.

And for the record: I am not here to promote anybody or anything. Nor am I here to answer questions about my personal life other than what I have already written, with respect.

At Meadow Haven, one of the first things we did was watch the Wave. This was a lesson in the dynamics of group influence in an extreme situational context (i.e., Nazi Germany). I get it.

What The Wave did not bring out, however, were the Nuremburg Principles. A lot of these Nazis were executed anyway. "Just following orders" didn't cut it in that situation.

And when I write that I'd help somebody go to MeadowHaven, it's not because I want them to go to MH per se; it's just that it's the only program of its kind on the planet (now that Wellsrpring is pretty much defunct, in the residential aspect at least).

Respectfully submitted, --Z



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 02:20AM by zeuszor.

Hey Zeusor,

I hope your gesture is really genuine because college students usually struggle to make ends meet. Do you realize that Dave licks his chops when he sees you attack organizations, people, or groups that expose him? He thinks he is the smartest man to ever live. He switched gears on the world to take the heat off his but. Some how his victims are still caught in his despicable web. He is still laughing his head off especially when he sees you instigate attacks on Rick Ross or question his attempt to discredit him. You have done a lot of great things over the years to win the fight but please don't tip the scales in Dave's favor. His followers are still under his influence and they need to be restored. Most everyone would like to see those young people free and in good standing with their families and friends.

Quote
Adrian
I hope your gesture is really genuine because college students usually struggle to make ends meet.

Hey, I am just talking about travel costs for American graduates or affected familes. A bus or plane ticket, a few meals, something like that. Nothing exhorbitant.

Quote
Adrian
Do you realize that Dave licks his chops when he sees you attack organizations, people, or groups that expose him? He thinks he is the smartest man to ever live. He switched gears on the world to take the heat off his but. Some how his victims are still caught in his despicable web. He is still laughing his head off especially when he sees you instigate attacks on Rick Ross or question his attempt to discredit him. You have done a lot of great things over the years to win the fight but please don't tip the scales in Dave's favor. His followers are still under his influence and they need to be restored. Most everyone would like to see those young people free and in good standing with their families and friends.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. First of all, I never "attacked" RR. It's not personal, for Pete's sake.

Well, we have a difference of opinion here. In general, I have always felt it better to stay on the offensive and try to keep the McKays' heads down (so to speak) over the softly-softly-with-my-friend-Dave-approach.

In my opinion, there's practically nothing that can be done at this point in order to reach those trapped "on the inside" (so to speak). Nobody's heard anything from them (at least in my country) and nobody seems to know where any of them are.

FYI--There are some resources available through professional counseling.

See [www.culteducation.com]

This directory includes licensed professional counselors, licensed mental health facilities, etc.

Those listed have specific experience dealing with groups called "cults" and/or ex-members from cults.

There is also a collection of articles relevant to recovery.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Quote
Adrian
His followers are still under his influence and they need to be restored.

This is, again, exactly the point I was trying to make earlier.

Restored? Restored to what?

All of this is predicated on the mentality that all of these people are somehow "victims" of the McKays and/or the group, and I say it isn't necessarily so, that's all. And that's all I ever really meant, in the first place.

Playing the "rescuer" in going about this is not helpful, in my opinion. Not to put too fine a point on it...

Hi Adrian,

Are you a former member of the JCs?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 03:56AM by Apollo.

zeuszor:

In my opinion the McKay group easily fits the criteria of a "cult".

And on that basis you are now engaging in victim bashing.

Cult members are victims.

If you don't get that than you have really failed to learn the most basic foundational aspect of cult dynamics.

Adrian is right, McKay's followers appear to be under his undue influence and they will eventually need to be restored to independence.

That's why I posted the link to recovery resources.

Hopefully, McKay's victims will one day find there way to such helping professionals and recover.

Typically the longer someone is in a group, the longer it takes to recover. And they more intense and controlling the cult experience, the more counseling help is needed.

Many of the McKay group members have been in for a long time. And it seems to me that "Jesus Christians" is a quite controlling and intense group.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 04:56AM by rrmoderator.