Dear Adrian,

I do apologize if I haven't "flagged" my sarcasm sufficiently.....I, in fact, NEVER dream of the God forsaken old goat....David is vain through and through and HATES to be parodied....regretably his site continues to garner the odd enquiry, hence I feel obliged to continue to pillory the deceit that he peddles, with sarcastic reference to the "impact" that he falsely believes he wields on the world....

As the Moderator has noted, the ultimate "coup de grace" of the JesusChristian apostasy will be when the few final members remaining, begin to again genuinely interact with their families again, WITHOUT mentally referencing McKay(....say by unquestioning adopting the priorities McKay set them or "blacklisting" those who threaten their servitude to McKay)....I await that moment, just as I longingly await the eventual passing away of the damned twit!

Dear Malcolm,

I'm glad to hear that you were only being sarcastic because I was concerned about you. It is such a relief to learn your view of David is totally clear. I think it sufficient to say you have not been nearly as active on this site as in times past. That could explain why I grew concerned when you described your dreams. I thought you had back-slid.

Yes, my goal is to see all members interacting and re-uniting with their families.

Malcolm: what kinds of things have benefited you over the years, in terms of getting DM's voice out of your head (so to speak)?

What kinds of things have helped to facilitate your healing, after your experience with this group?

In your general opinion, what are the two or three most important factors that help to contribute toward the healing of any given survivor of an abusive group?

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Adrian
Yes, my goal is to see all members interacting and re-uniting with their families.

It's going to take a long time for these graduates to get DM's voice out of their heads. If there is anything I've learned in life, it's that you cannot rescue somebody who does not feel like they need to be rescued.

If there are any Jesus Christians or ex-Jesus Christians out there who may feel as if they are in need of any counseling, therapy, or other specialized support services designed for survivors of high-demand, controlling groups (or "cults" if you prefer), then please allow me to here and now make this public offer to pay for your travel expenses to receive such counseling.

I even know of a therapist who specializes in working with the children of the leaders of such groups, and am willing to extend my offer to help a certain someone meet with this person.

In other words, if there's anybody out there who has left or is in the process of leaving the Jesus Christians, and you want to get some help in transitioning back into the outside world, then I'll pay for your ticket to either Wellspring or Meadow Haven, (or to one of the types of very specialized therapists I mentioned above).

I am not offering to pay for the services themselves, mind you, but the travel expenses there and back.

Anybody who wants to take me up on this offer, knows how to reach me.

That is very honourable of you, zeuszor. Your generosity is to be admired. I hope the 'ex-Jesus Christians' take you up on that kind offer.

I would agree with Malcolm. Until we see evidence of McKay's victims returning to more regular contact with their families, and without the obvious influence of Dave McKay, then we must continue to be vigilant.

Zeuszor:

"You cannot rescue somebody who does not feel like they need to be rescued"?

This is incorrect.

Many people are rescued, even though they don't feel that they need to be rescued through ongoing intervention work. This includes both substance abuse and cults.

The central issue now cocerning "Jesus Christians" at this juncture is the actual status of the group.

If group members continue to refuse family communication and/or isolate themselves from family and old friends, you can conclude that the group is not really disbanded and that Dave McKay continues to wield considerable influence as a mentor/leader.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 05:22AM by rrmoderator.

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rrmoderator
Zeuszor:

"You cannot rescue somebody who does not feel like they need to be rescued"?

This is incorrect.

Many people are rescueds that don't feel they need to be rescued through ongoing intervention work. This includes substance abuse and cults.

The central issue now cocerning "Jesus Christians" at this juncture is the actual status of the group.

If group members continue to refuse family communication and/or isolate themselves from family and old friends, you can conclude the group is not really disbanded and that Dave McKay continues to wield considerable influence as a mentor/leader.

Please allow me to expand on this statement of mine. "You cannot rescue somebody who does not feel like they need to be rescued."

The point that I am trying to make is this: it's all a matter of timing, and just like with addictions everybody's "bottom" (in terms of duration and severity) is different.

The ultimate decision to exit a group or leave an abusive or controlling relationship is entirely in the power of the addict/cult memeber/abused person/whoever.

In an abusive relationship, the abnormal becomes normalized, and people's boundaries are so messed up they don't even realize what abuse looks or feels like anymore.

I've been there; I could not have changed, unless I realized that I needed to change. And I write from the place of a lot of painful personal experience (that I like to think I've learned from).

Nobody can change, until they first realize that there's a need to make a change. This is the point that I am trying to make.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 02:41AM by zeuszor.

Nobody can change, until they first realize that there's a need to make a change. This is the point that I am trying to make.

This is the reason why I never thought that the softly-softly, we'll-try-and-lovingly-reason-with-him approach with respect to dealing with the McKays was going to be effective at all.

In DM's mind, he has nothing to change, as he has no faults. He has nothing to apologize for, as he never does anything wrong. Displays of empathy or sympahy will only enrage him further.

This is simply the nature of the malignant narcissist. And now he's in hiding like the scared little rat he that is.

Quote
rrmoderator
If group members continue to refuse family communication and/or isolate themselves from family and old friends, you can conclude the group is not really disbanded and that Dave McKay continues to wield considerable influence as a mentor/leader.

Indeed. Basically, they just seem to have dropped the JC name but are still appear to be an organized group in some fashion.

At least they're not active in this country anymore, by all appearances.

And does anybody else thinks it's more than a coincidence that the JCs "graduated" not long after the Family International "Rebooted"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 02:38AM by zeuszor.

This one's for you today, Dave, wherever you are.

[www.youtube.com]

Sunrise doesn't last all morning
A cloudburst doesnt't't last all day
Seems my love is up and has left you with no warning
Its not always going to be this grey

All things must pass
All things must pass away

Sunset doesn't last all evening
A mind can blow those clouds away
After all this, my love is up and must be leaving
Its not always going to be this grey

All things must pass
All things must pass away
All things must pass
None of lifes strings can last
So, I must be on my way
And face another day

Now the darkness only stays the night-time
In the morning it will fade away
Daylight is good at arriving at the right time
Its not always going to be this grey

All things must pass
All things must pass away
All things must pass
All things must pass away

Zeuszor:

"Nobody can change, until they first realize that there's a need to make a change"?

The whole point of intervention work regarding substance abuse and destructive cults is to help people realize that a positive change in their best interest.

Initially, cult members may not realize this, largely because of the undue influence of the group, leader, isolation, etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2012 05:24AM by rrmoderator.