Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 23, 2007 04:22AM
Richard Lowther of Butler's home town Kailua, Oahu and Honlulu.
[b:1b83e00e14]Rama Doyle [/b:1b83e00e14]the boxer (of Rama's Massage Oahu) 2000 boxing tournament, 81kg, Red corner, Helensvale on the Gold Coast.
[www.boxingqld.org.au]
[b:1b83e00e14]Andre Kalata[/b:1b83e00e14] (oahu - Noni Kahuna registration)
"[b:1b83e00e14]Devin Bull[/b:1b83e00e14], holding his son Graham, and Andre Kalata were among [b:1b83e00e14]Healthy Hawaii Coalition[/b:1b83e00e14] signholders yesterday who felt the state was not doing enough to alert people about dengue fever."
[img:1b83e00e14]http://starbulletin.com/2001/11/02/news/arte.jpg[/img:1b83e00e14]
[starbulletin.com]
[b:1b83e00e14]Jason Lundy[/b:1b83e00e14] (Noni Kahuna registration)........[b:1b83e00e14]Healing Noni Co., [/b:1b83e00e14]LLC. PO BOX 5884 Hilo HI 96720 USA 1-877-662-4610 - on Land Auction
[www.hawaiilandauction.com]
Time Base Productions is involved in model search. Kuku Trinadad was a model
RAMP - Runway and Modelling Perfection
[groups.yahoo.com]
[b:1b83e00e14]Sunset Studios[/b:1b83e00e14] registration
We just worked out that [b:1b83e00e14]Raymond Brian Linsley[/b:1b83e00e14] of Sunset Studios is AKA [b:1b83e00e14]Radha Krishna das[/b:1b83e00e14] in Australia School of Meditation - See recent post
+ [b:1b83e00e14]Gopi Marr[/b:1b83e00e14]
[b:1b83e00e14]Ninjai[/b:1b83e00e14] new brands
Little Bird
Aladdin Enters the Dragon
Aladdin's Sister
Aladdin, Mystic Warrior
Karma Kula, Mystic Warrior
Perhaps Karma Kula's name was changed to Aladdin?? Not very original if they had.
[findownersearch.com]
People involved in Save Traditional Marriages
Anya Anthony - Sunset Studios registration
[starbulletin.com]
[/color:1b83e00e14]
From the following article:
[channelinggiovanni.blogspot.com]
[b:1b83e00e14]Rama Doyle [/b:1b83e00e14]the boxer (of Rama's Massage Oahu) 2000 boxing tournament, 81kg, Red corner, Helensvale on the Gold Coast.
[www.boxingqld.org.au]
[b:1b83e00e14]Andre Kalata[/b:1b83e00e14] (oahu - Noni Kahuna registration)
"[b:1b83e00e14]Devin Bull[/b:1b83e00e14], holding his son Graham, and Andre Kalata were among [b:1b83e00e14]Healthy Hawaii Coalition[/b:1b83e00e14] signholders yesterday who felt the state was not doing enough to alert people about dengue fever."
[img:1b83e00e14]http://starbulletin.com/2001/11/02/news/arte.jpg[/img:1b83e00e14]
[starbulletin.com]
[b:1b83e00e14]Jason Lundy[/b:1b83e00e14] (Noni Kahuna registration)........[b:1b83e00e14]Healing Noni Co., [/b:1b83e00e14]LLC. PO BOX 5884 Hilo HI 96720 USA 1-877-662-4610 - on Land Auction
[www.hawaiilandauction.com]
Time Base Productions is involved in model search. Kuku Trinadad was a model
RAMP - Runway and Modelling Perfection
[groups.yahoo.com]
[b:1b83e00e14]Sunset Studios[/b:1b83e00e14] registration
We just worked out that [b:1b83e00e14]Raymond Brian Linsley[/b:1b83e00e14] of Sunset Studios is AKA [b:1b83e00e14]Radha Krishna das[/b:1b83e00e14] in Australia School of Meditation - See recent post
+ [b:1b83e00e14]Gopi Marr[/b:1b83e00e14]
[b:1b83e00e14]Ninjai[/b:1b83e00e14] new brands
Little Bird
Aladdin Enters the Dragon
Aladdin's Sister
Aladdin, Mystic Warrior
Karma Kula, Mystic Warrior
Perhaps Karma Kula's name was changed to Aladdin?? Not very original if they had.
[findownersearch.com]
People involved in Save Traditional Marriages
Anya Anthony - Sunset Studios registration
[starbulletin.com]
[/color:1b83e00e14]
From the following article:
[channelinggiovanni.blogspot.com]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
zelig
()
Date: May 23, 2007 09:11PM
Some clarification is needed. If something is not clear, ask for clarification instead of calling someone a liar. My post on 5-15-07 was such a call for clarification. What follows is simply a primary historical account of my experiences. After a certain time, I lost touch with the whole group and have no idea what they are doing now. But I can speak about some events that I personally witnessed.
Example:
In my attempt to show the difference between the Ponomauloa school and the CB school in the Phillipines or an ISKCON one, I should have included the word [b:7716e87034] [i:7716e87034]“long” [/i:7716e87034][/b:7716e87034]sessions (and specifically defined it as japa mantra meditation on beads). In my experience, at the Ponomauloa school, there were no [b:7716e87034][i:7716e87034]long[/i:7716e87034][/b:7716e87034] chanting sessions (as with the infamous gurukulas, including CB’s PI site).
There was singing (of course krish-man mantras and songs along with Mike’s famous aloha Hawaii riffs) and I think that a guitar class was part of the music curriculum. But artiks with japa chanting were done at home at the discretion of parents, as children did live with their families (another difference). The point being is that this school was trying to model itself like most any other religious school and was not abusive (at least as defined by the Department of Children’s Services). No yoga was taught (late 1984) and the only person really doing hatha yoga at that time was Kat and Wai.
Most parents at that time did not want to send their kids far away to the PI school. They had heard awful things about it from one of Kat’s sons. They also wanted a local school, especially for the girls. I know nothing about a Samoa school, but that doesn’t mean one did not exist. I do know that the school in Hawaii certainly did exist. I also know that it was a good attempt. I can’t know for sure how much of CB’s influence caused it to fold. As I said in a previous post, there were initial discussions about opening the school to local kids similar to Catholic schools which teach religion along with secular subjects to non-Catholics. I am fairly certain that this was Mike’s idea and CB would not go for it. I do know that I was very upset at the fact that CB did not help the school out financially. And it always disturbed me because the kids desperately needed a school while many of the parents worked full time for CB or volunteered at the school. Siddhaswarupananda had no care for the welfare of the children. That was another reason I left. Several of the families that started that first year are also no longer in SOI.
This is how it worked with certain projects. Someone would get an idea and run it by CB who would say yea or nay. (Yes, people came up with ideas and initiatives. There were a lot of creative and dynamic people in those days. In those years, for [i:7716e87034]some[/i:7716e87034] projects, he did not micro manage. I remember Mike being frustrated trying to create a good school for the kids without funding. He wanted to open it up to local kids. I am sure CB did not want this.
I never heard Mike utter one homophobic or racist comment ever in those days. This comment, which is true, should not lead one to conclude that I am denigrating any one personally or denying his public policies today. It should rather lead one to conclude that [b:7716e87034]good people get involved in cults and turn in stages. It should lead one to understand that it is like a progressive and chronic disease. It should lead one to conclude that cults are dangerous to society’s natural leaders and even the intelligent. [/b:7716e87034] My 4-19-2007 post on this forum called “New Scientist - April 14, 2007 article” speaks of this phenomenon,[b:7716e87034] "No matter how freethinking you believe yourself to be”, says Michael Bond, “being part of a group can make you do stupid or even despicable things".[/b:7716e87034]
Another example of jumping to conclusions (the assumption that Mike is misrepresenting his past) is that in America at least, the term “tennis pro” or "golf pro" does not mean he is competing on the pro circuit. It is a common term that means a tennis coach (often at spas, resorts or one who gives private lessons). I think it safe to assume that this portion of his biography is true. This statement does not mean that Mike has not misrepresented himself in other areas, such as lying about the level of his involvement in the CB cult. But in Hawai’i it is an open secret that Gabbard is a follower of Jagad Guru. Everyone knew and still voted for him. In the U.S.A. one’s personal religious beliefs are a right and the Hawaiian people are a tolerant and pluralistic people in general.
If homosexual marriage and abortion rights or the war in Iraq are an issue for you, then you will vote against Gabbard. If environmental protection, anti-abortion, tax cuts and education are important to you, you will vote for him. You can look at his voting record or the bills he has written to decide if he represents your point of view or not. That’s how we do it in America, for better or worse. Does this make me a cult apologist? No. I am free of cult or anti-cult influences and vote according to my own priorities and conscience. That’s democracy.
[b:7716e87034]Politics is also a rough, dirty and competitive game (seemingly well suited to Jagad Guru).[/b:7716e87034] Campaign financing laws vary from state to state. The complaints must have centered on donations and monetary limits. There are strict laws concerning donations.
We have a representative government. If our representatives don’t vote on something (e.g., campaign financing reforms), it doesn’t happen. If our representatives benefited from it, it doesn’t get made into law unless people get mad and vote them out. So reforms can take a lot of time.
There probably was no law in 2000 that stated that a person could donate in excess of his income! It’s not ethical, but it probably was not illegal. They may have changed the laws by now. Certainly, the opposing party would try to make changes, but it has to be written and voted upon. Campaign financing is a big issue in the USA. A lot of abuse goes on. It seems to me that the only people who would be hurt by this would be the individual donors (not Siddhaswarupananda, not Mike) who would need to explain this discrepancy to the IRS (income tax people). If they get a “gift” of money, they are allowed to spend it as they wish legally. It will change their tax status for the year, but I’m sure that was covered in the “donation to donate” to Gabbard’s fund.
Anyway, politics in America is looked upon more like a team sport than a responsibility. [b:7716e87034]This is just another example of slippery, Shri Teflon Siddhaswarupananda using his followers for his own narcissistic purposes in such a way that he will never get implicated or suffer any consequences. His followers will. They are the victims.[/b:7716e87034] For them, it is all like betting on a football game, which is illegal in some places, but everyone does it. They root for the home team and the star player. It’s all group think. They watch the returns on the television with their boy in the lead. Not much different than American Idol.
[i:7716e87034]"The whole is more than the sum of its parts" .~Aristotle[/i:7716e87034][/color:7716e87034]
Example:
Quote
The school did not have chanting sessions, but the reading and writing contained both secular material as well as Krishna stories. It most likely failed because parents could not pay the tuition that would support Mike and the other teachers and their families, along with supplies and rent. Running a private school on tuition alone is next to impossible.
In my attempt to show the difference between the Ponomauloa school and the CB school in the Phillipines or an ISKCON one, I should have included the word [b:7716e87034] [i:7716e87034]“long” [/i:7716e87034][/b:7716e87034]sessions (and specifically defined it as japa mantra meditation on beads). In my experience, at the Ponomauloa school, there were no [b:7716e87034][i:7716e87034]long[/i:7716e87034][/b:7716e87034] chanting sessions (as with the infamous gurukulas, including CB’s PI site).
There was singing (of course krish-man mantras and songs along with Mike’s famous aloha Hawaii riffs) and I think that a guitar class was part of the music curriculum. But artiks with japa chanting were done at home at the discretion of parents, as children did live with their families (another difference). The point being is that this school was trying to model itself like most any other religious school and was not abusive (at least as defined by the Department of Children’s Services). No yoga was taught (late 1984) and the only person really doing hatha yoga at that time was Kat and Wai.
Most parents at that time did not want to send their kids far away to the PI school. They had heard awful things about it from one of Kat’s sons. They also wanted a local school, especially for the girls. I know nothing about a Samoa school, but that doesn’t mean one did not exist. I do know that the school in Hawaii certainly did exist. I also know that it was a good attempt. I can’t know for sure how much of CB’s influence caused it to fold. As I said in a previous post, there were initial discussions about opening the school to local kids similar to Catholic schools which teach religion along with secular subjects to non-Catholics. I am fairly certain that this was Mike’s idea and CB would not go for it. I do know that I was very upset at the fact that CB did not help the school out financially. And it always disturbed me because the kids desperately needed a school while many of the parents worked full time for CB or volunteered at the school. Siddhaswarupananda had no care for the welfare of the children. That was another reason I left. Several of the families that started that first year are also no longer in SOI.
This is how it worked with certain projects. Someone would get an idea and run it by CB who would say yea or nay. (Yes, people came up with ideas and initiatives. There were a lot of creative and dynamic people in those days. In those years, for [i:7716e87034]some[/i:7716e87034] projects, he did not micro manage. I remember Mike being frustrated trying to create a good school for the kids without funding. He wanted to open it up to local kids. I am sure CB did not want this.
I never heard Mike utter one homophobic or racist comment ever in those days. This comment, which is true, should not lead one to conclude that I am denigrating any one personally or denying his public policies today. It should rather lead one to conclude that [b:7716e87034]good people get involved in cults and turn in stages. It should lead one to understand that it is like a progressive and chronic disease. It should lead one to conclude that cults are dangerous to society’s natural leaders and even the intelligent. [/b:7716e87034] My 4-19-2007 post on this forum called “New Scientist - April 14, 2007 article” speaks of this phenomenon,[b:7716e87034] "No matter how freethinking you believe yourself to be”, says Michael Bond, “being part of a group can make you do stupid or even despicable things".[/b:7716e87034]
Another example of jumping to conclusions (the assumption that Mike is misrepresenting his past) is that in America at least, the term “tennis pro” or "golf pro" does not mean he is competing on the pro circuit. It is a common term that means a tennis coach (often at spas, resorts or one who gives private lessons). I think it safe to assume that this portion of his biography is true. This statement does not mean that Mike has not misrepresented himself in other areas, such as lying about the level of his involvement in the CB cult. But in Hawai’i it is an open secret that Gabbard is a follower of Jagad Guru. Everyone knew and still voted for him. In the U.S.A. one’s personal religious beliefs are a right and the Hawaiian people are a tolerant and pluralistic people in general.
If homosexual marriage and abortion rights or the war in Iraq are an issue for you, then you will vote against Gabbard. If environmental protection, anti-abortion, tax cuts and education are important to you, you will vote for him. You can look at his voting record or the bills he has written to decide if he represents your point of view or not. That’s how we do it in America, for better or worse. Does this make me a cult apologist? No. I am free of cult or anti-cult influences and vote according to my own priorities and conscience. That’s democracy.
[b:7716e87034]Politics is also a rough, dirty and competitive game (seemingly well suited to Jagad Guru).[/b:7716e87034] Campaign financing laws vary from state to state. The complaints must have centered on donations and monetary limits. There are strict laws concerning donations.
We have a representative government. If our representatives don’t vote on something (e.g., campaign financing reforms), it doesn’t happen. If our representatives benefited from it, it doesn’t get made into law unless people get mad and vote them out. So reforms can take a lot of time.
There probably was no law in 2000 that stated that a person could donate in excess of his income! It’s not ethical, but it probably was not illegal. They may have changed the laws by now. Certainly, the opposing party would try to make changes, but it has to be written and voted upon. Campaign financing is a big issue in the USA. A lot of abuse goes on. It seems to me that the only people who would be hurt by this would be the individual donors (not Siddhaswarupananda, not Mike) who would need to explain this discrepancy to the IRS (income tax people). If they get a “gift” of money, they are allowed to spend it as they wish legally. It will change their tax status for the year, but I’m sure that was covered in the “donation to donate” to Gabbard’s fund.
Anyway, politics in America is looked upon more like a team sport than a responsibility. [b:7716e87034]This is just another example of slippery, Shri Teflon Siddhaswarupananda using his followers for his own narcissistic purposes in such a way that he will never get implicated or suffer any consequences. His followers will. They are the victims.[/b:7716e87034] For them, it is all like betting on a football game, which is illegal in some places, but everyone does it. They root for the home team and the star player. It’s all group think. They watch the returns on the television with their boy in the lead. Not much different than American Idol.
[i:7716e87034]"The whole is more than the sum of its parts" .~Aristotle[/i:7716e87034][/color:7716e87034]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 23, 2007 10:49PM
Zelig Opined :
In a word fuck off. This coming from a cowardly cult apoogist who attacks the only genuine opposition that SoI ever had, no thanks to you and no thanks to any of your cronies who are noticeably silent, who posted an authorative list of facts that comprised a personal attack of comical proportions which amounted to nothing. If anyone here wanted to hear the spin of minimising blame and re-writing history from some out of touch invisible man we could have stayed in the cult. [b:c020f8bb4b]You dont like the way things are done good - that means we are getting them right.[/b:c020f8bb4b]
Quote
Some clarification is needed. If something is not clear, ask for clarification instead of calling someone a liar
In a word fuck off. This coming from a cowardly cult apoogist who attacks the only genuine opposition that SoI ever had, no thanks to you and no thanks to any of your cronies who are noticeably silent, who posted an authorative list of facts that comprised a personal attack of comical proportions which amounted to nothing. If anyone here wanted to hear the spin of minimising blame and re-writing history from some out of touch invisible man we could have stayed in the cult. [b:c020f8bb4b]You dont like the way things are done good - that means we are getting them right.[/b:c020f8bb4b]
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
cultreporter
()
Date: May 23, 2007 11:17PM
Some Quick Facts About Mike Gabbard (Krishna Kartha das)
Mike Gabbard got elected into the American democratic system based on support from all over the world because followers of Chris Butler - members of the same cult that Mike Gabbard [u:d69f7b4453]denies[/u:d69f7b4453] being a member of have a vested interest in serving their guru and it appeases their sectarian spirit to believe that they are getting one up over the karmis of the world by imposing their beliefs on them.
The complaint against Gabbard which was dismissed due to lack of evidence that donations were re-imbursed was because there was no evidence that the reimbursement occurred. Common sense would tell anyone as it did the author of the complaint that a housewife can not afford to give $4000. If there wass evidence then perhaps the situation would have been different. I have witnessed money being solicted in Australia for Mike Gabbards campaign. Those donations do not show up on any contributors list.
The opponents of Gabbard did not have sufficient knowledge of the cult to connect all the dots. Among the contributors were Wai Lana's son and Tusta's wife but they failed to highlight this. These are publically available records. Mike Gabbard paid for an Australian to go over to America in 2000 to manage his campaign and donations via the internet. I was personally told by parties involved that the money was gathered from low level followers and funnelled through to disciples whose names it is shows up on the records - convenient because these are trusted folk that are highly unlikey to blow the whistle. If this is not illegal then perhaps it should be.
Mike Gabbard does infact have a gay son who he packed off to Australia so as not to upset his family friendly image.
Mike lied about his past when he refused to answer questions put to him about the nature of the school he had on his resume. To discuss it would have revealed that he was infact a member of the cult he denies and that he was a party to the pattern of child neglect that characterises SoI. Irrespective of what Zelig would like everyone to believe there has been no shortage of abuse in SoI schools. Katyani's son was beaten by disciples for being too attatched to the material world because he wanted to play with toy cars. Disciples that left around 1984 in the post Wai Lana exodus of followers had children that could not read or write or count beyond ten. There are accounts of children being put to work at the Phillipines and American schools which go back to people the same age as I am now.
Carol Gabbard not only ran for the board of education when her own children didnt even go to public school (I guess that is democracy at work huh?) did not disclose her affiliations with SoI or even with her own husband and was forced to resign as a result.
Whenever complaints are made against them the Gabbards claim that it is a conspiracy against them. Democracy did not elect them - unless your definition of democracy is having three times as much to spend as any opponent on account of having constituents all over the world as oppossed to those who just aim to represent the interests of the people of Hawaii and resorting to organised mass campaigns of fear mongering and attacking opponents. It certainly makes a difference to have the resources of an international multi-million dollar cult at your disposal.
Mike Gabbard got elected into the American democratic system based on support from all over the world because followers of Chris Butler - members of the same cult that Mike Gabbard [u:d69f7b4453]denies[/u:d69f7b4453] being a member of have a vested interest in serving their guru and it appeases their sectarian spirit to believe that they are getting one up over the karmis of the world by imposing their beliefs on them.
The complaint against Gabbard which was dismissed due to lack of evidence that donations were re-imbursed was because there was no evidence that the reimbursement occurred. Common sense would tell anyone as it did the author of the complaint that a housewife can not afford to give $4000. If there wass evidence then perhaps the situation would have been different. I have witnessed money being solicted in Australia for Mike Gabbards campaign. Those donations do not show up on any contributors list.
The opponents of Gabbard did not have sufficient knowledge of the cult to connect all the dots. Among the contributors were Wai Lana's son and Tusta's wife but they failed to highlight this. These are publically available records. Mike Gabbard paid for an Australian to go over to America in 2000 to manage his campaign and donations via the internet. I was personally told by parties involved that the money was gathered from low level followers and funnelled through to disciples whose names it is shows up on the records - convenient because these are trusted folk that are highly unlikey to blow the whistle. If this is not illegal then perhaps it should be.
Mike Gabbard does infact have a gay son who he packed off to Australia so as not to upset his family friendly image.
Mike lied about his past when he refused to answer questions put to him about the nature of the school he had on his resume. To discuss it would have revealed that he was infact a member of the cult he denies and that he was a party to the pattern of child neglect that characterises SoI. Irrespective of what Zelig would like everyone to believe there has been no shortage of abuse in SoI schools. Katyani's son was beaten by disciples for being too attatched to the material world because he wanted to play with toy cars. Disciples that left around 1984 in the post Wai Lana exodus of followers had children that could not read or write or count beyond ten. There are accounts of children being put to work at the Phillipines and American schools which go back to people the same age as I am now.
Carol Gabbard not only ran for the board of education when her own children didnt even go to public school (I guess that is democracy at work huh?) did not disclose her affiliations with SoI or even with her own husband and was forced to resign as a result.
Whenever complaints are made against them the Gabbards claim that it is a conspiracy against them. Democracy did not elect them - unless your definition of democracy is having three times as much to spend as any opponent on account of having constituents all over the world as oppossed to those who just aim to represent the interests of the people of Hawaii and resorting to organised mass campaigns of fear mongering and attacking opponents. It certainly makes a difference to have the resources of an international multi-million dollar cult at your disposal.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
just-googling
()
Date: May 23, 2007 11:37PM
Quote
cultreporter
[b:3d762d2492]Rama Doyle [/b:3d762d2492]the boxer (of Rama's Massage Oahu) 2000 boxing tournament, 81kg, Red corner, Helensvale on the Gold Coast.
[www.boxingqld.org.au]
Knocked out in the first round ...
so much for "My devotee is never vanquished"!!![/color:3d762d2492]
Siddhaswarupananda did encourage martial arts and boxing
among his followers and disciples.
However, methinks that fasting and vegetarianism
do not mix with heavyweight boxing :(
And probably for some followers, martial arts take first priority
and the chanting and deity worship get put on the back burner again.
Just like with his politicians and money-making followers
who scoff at the ISKCON people who live in the temple
I wonder what ACB would think of all this?
:?:
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
jograves
()
Date: May 24, 2007 12:24AM
You GO, girl!Quote
You dont like the way things are done good - that means we are getting them right.
Although religious persuasion is [theoretically] NOT as issue in our [theoretically] non-secular government, lying about it [especially when it is so obvious an attempt to secure a large body of voters] in order to hide one's [b:ad4721703e]worship of[/b:ad4721703e] a crackpot cult leader IS, and should be.
Crackpot, yes.
Harmless, no.
Whenever a megalomaniacal fanatical cult leader tries to get one of his own elected to high public office, it is a wake up call for any country that wants to remain free.
This isn't about homosexual marraige, guys. It's about "Ruler Of The Universe" and other wannabees.
Let's not minimalize it.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
shanti
()
Date: May 24, 2007 03:34AM
I have not posted on here for a long time. However, I do check from time to time to see what's going on, and if perhaps someone I might know has come forward. I have been very impressed with cultreporter's dedication and determination to expose as much information in regard to Chris Butler & Science of Identity in general as possible...I say BRAVO! So I find myself wanting to particpate by posting this piece of information. While crusing online, I found this article...it was not "by chance" that I found this...I was trying to find information on what is currently going on with Chris' devotees. As cultreporter has pointed out, many businesses that are currently operating are being run by Chris' disciples...and probably a fact that the general public that happen upon them do not know. I am not posting this entire article, as it is quite long...but you can look it up if you want to read the whole thing.
This is from this guy's personal blog...he's apparently trying out a bit of everything...this was his experience with Bhakti Yoga, and it seemed obvious to me after I read several of his posts, he has nothing to do with Chris or Science of Idenity. He appears to be on a spititual quest.. seeking answers, ideas, experiences, and knowledge for himself.
If the purpose of this forum is still, at least in part, to inform and warn people about Chris & the Science of Identity...by telling the truth about our own personal experiences, and/or to post any information we may have as to what's currently going on... then I feel this can be helpful. Perhaps a parent, relative, or friend will see this.
This young mans' name is Brandon Peele, [www.brandonpeele.com], and the following is from his blog "Generative Transformation", post from 2006 in regard to his experience with Bhakti Yoga.
The most disturbing parts for me in this blog article:
1. It's an "ashram" with young people involved.
Who knows who these kids are!!!
Do their parents know what they are involved in?
2. It's right here in California USA...not off in some other country.
Note: The person referred to as "Jevon" is in fact Jivan Krishna das ...disciple of Chris' since the 1970's.
The business is:
Lotus Garden Yoga Studio/ The Meditation Retreat Center
7225 Lincoln Ave. Carmichael, CA 95628
(916) 944-8577
"I recently returned from a 3-day Bhakti Yoga retreat. Bhakti Yoga is a devotional path to enlightenment in the Hindu tradition - the other main ones being Jnana (knowledge), Karma (service) and Raja (meditation/mind purification - similar to the Vipassana I've been practicing for the last couple years). It was a very positive experience overall, and something quite different than anything else I've encountered. The main thrust of Bhakti is to realize intimacy with God/Krishna through devotional practices such as Kirtan meditation (group chanting - think Gospel music) and Japa (private prayer/mantra/mediation using beads).
Again, this was an instance where my intuition told me to go and experience, without the need to research and rationalize the jaunt. And boy did it ever pay off! For starters, the food was fan-freaking-tastic; some the best vegetarian fare I've ever had. We met some amazing people, from newbies like us, to casual devotees to ashramites (residential spiritual practioners) to an initiated spiritual master. It was put on by the Carmichael Meditation Retreat Center, which also has a Hatha Yoga business called Lotus Garden. The meditation center is really more of an ashram, where folks can live and work while they study, meditate (sing and chant mantras). Similar to Vipassana (Buddhist meditation), the retreat was free. However, if you enjoyed the experience, the opportunity to donate exists.
My favorite parts of the weekend were the philosophy discourses and the informal one-on-ones with the practicioners and ashramites.
Before I go into too much detail on these, I need to offer a little disclaimer about my experience. This reflects only my own research on Bhakti, and this one experience, with one Bhakti group in the Sacramento area. It could be markedly different/better/worse elsewhere.
Bhakti is a very easy straight forward path - simply chanting and saying the names of God over and over to various tunes and in the confines of your own head. Unlike raja, there is no strict lifestyle discipline and committed hours on the cushion. Unlike jnana, there is required no love or stamina for philosophy, studying, etc. Unlike karma, there is no committment of service. All you have to do is sing, listen and chant, and your mind, body and soul become purified by the sacred sounds of the names of God. Essentially you're reprogramming your consciousness with spiritual mantras espousing a deep love of God, allowing the deprogramming of the material/matrix mantras (more, better, faster, etc.); the garbage just dies of atrophy.
Devotees get worked up into a frenzy singing, dancing, smiling and laughing. It's the rock 'n' roll path to enlightenment. Many of the Kirtan players were incredibly talented musicians and vocalists. I had a great time with Kirtan and am currently in a bit of Kirtan withdrawl.
So, as you might imagine, this particular path tends to attract a more fun loving, musically oriented and less chaste, somber or intellectual devotee.
I found this out the hard way, enquiring into the reasoning of every ashramite and devotee I met. Few had any conception of other yogas, spiritual traditions, Western psychology, etc. Virtually all of the ashramites had a zeal for the supremacy of Bhakti as the best path. Some chose to rationalize Bhakti's supremacy, by contending that the world is full of chaos, conflict and confusion and that all the other paths don't offer any solace from it as Bhakti does.
Many of the ashramites are young, in their late teens and twenties, and came from troubled upbringings (broken homes, disease, addiction, criminal past, etc.). This confirms the old joke that there is a significant difference between people who consider themselves religious and those who consider themselves spiritual. Religious people are afraid of hell; spiritual people have already been there. Many of the ashramites have unbelievable stories of transformation that they shared with us. Without a mind for critical thinking or knowledge of human development, one could easily walk away from such an experience believing that Bhakti yoga cures all forms of disease, mental illness, etc. However, upon close examination and employing a developmental psychological context, any embracing of God or emptying of one's mind of ills, especially after a traumatic upbringing, could appear as a panacea. I believe this accounts for the pervasive, though ill-informed, enthusiasm for Bhakti.
The only exception to the abundant ignorance of other paths, fields of study, etc. I encountered was when I cornered the resident ordained spiritual master, Jevon. He is a white-haired man in sixties, with whom I share a love of philosophy, psychology, physics, etc. In addition to having recieved direct spiritual training and the blessing to teach from his spiritual master (tracing a lineage back thousands of years), Jevon is a scholar of Christianity. I dare say that without my encounters with Jevon I would have written off Bhakti as Disneyland spirituality.
Throughout the two Baghavad Gita philosophy discussions, I hit Jevon with question after question pertaining to psychology, democracy, conformity, creativity, empowerment, other paths, the work of Aurobindo and Krishnamurti. He seemed incredibly astute, drawing on his own experiences being raised Catholic, as a former devotee of Paramahansa Yogananda's Raja yoga, and as a scholar of the work of Krishnamurti. He was a bit light on the Integral Yoga of Aurobindo, and on how his philosophy might pertain to Bhakti. Otherwise, I was very impressed.
He talked to me as if he was part channeling, with his eyes closed and part consciously engaged. It was sort of as if he had a mission to relate what had been imparted to him, but could employ his creativity and reasoning in how he communicated it to me. Knowing me to be fond of physics, metaphor and obsessed with intellectual integrity, he tailored his responses to resonate with my language of choice. Very cool to experience.
I learned a great deal from Jevon, specifically related to the process of spiritual learning or ascension. True knowledge can come from three places:
Direct experience of the seeker
Confirmation and interpretation of said experience in scripture
Confirmation and interpretation of said experience by spiritual master, who is himself the living embodiment of the scripture, as the direct lineage of his tutelage predates what is written (handed down from Krishna to students/master to student/master for thousands of years).
I'm pretty convinced that all you need is the first one, but the last two would be nice to have as well.
Jevon's core nugget of wisdom followed after I asked him a question on why Eastern paths so deeply confuse and alienate Westerners. He replied that spirituality as a practice and science has been consistently part of Indian culture for several thousands of years, only first being written down 5,000 years ago, and as such the advancement of spiritual thinking and practice is unfamiliar and alienating to Westerners who hold more primative forms of spirituality sacred (Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all relative newcomers to the God game).
Much as a student of 4th grade math (multiplication, addition, subtraction and division) does not see that 4th grade math is indeed part of calculus, and that calculus is an evolution, not departure from math, a devotee of a Western religion fails to see the grandeur of spirituality as practiced in the East. In fact, Westerners even think its something altogether different, aka not religion! We Westerners are blinded by our ignorance in this respect.
Want a good steak? Ask an Argentinian. A good watch? Ask a Swiss. A good car? Talk to a German. And if it is spirituality you seek, look to the East.
I have decided that incorporating a devotional aspect of spirituality into my practice is a worthwhile endeavor. Moreover, I remain convinced, that while Bhakti may not be my sole and lasting spiritual practice, I should keep looking East in my search. If you're the kind of seeker who loves music, singing and dancing or detests chastidy, silence and study, Bhakti is for you. While I don't detest any of the latter, I certainly love to sing and dance, so instead of boring myself and girlfriend with the mundane lyrics of Pearl Jam or the Eagles, I look forward to blending artistic expression with my obsession for evolution, spiritual communion and self-realization, through Bhakti. So if you see me chanting "Rama Rama" or rocking back and forth in spiritual ecstasy with beads between my fingers, you'll know why!"
This is from this guy's personal blog...he's apparently trying out a bit of everything...this was his experience with Bhakti Yoga, and it seemed obvious to me after I read several of his posts, he has nothing to do with Chris or Science of Idenity. He appears to be on a spititual quest.. seeking answers, ideas, experiences, and knowledge for himself.
If the purpose of this forum is still, at least in part, to inform and warn people about Chris & the Science of Identity...by telling the truth about our own personal experiences, and/or to post any information we may have as to what's currently going on... then I feel this can be helpful. Perhaps a parent, relative, or friend will see this.
This young mans' name is Brandon Peele, [www.brandonpeele.com], and the following is from his blog "Generative Transformation", post from 2006 in regard to his experience with Bhakti Yoga.
The most disturbing parts for me in this blog article:
1. It's an "ashram" with young people involved.
Who knows who these kids are!!!
Do their parents know what they are involved in?
2. It's right here in California USA...not off in some other country.
Note: The person referred to as "Jevon" is in fact Jivan Krishna das ...disciple of Chris' since the 1970's.
The business is:
Lotus Garden Yoga Studio/ The Meditation Retreat Center
7225 Lincoln Ave. Carmichael, CA 95628
(916) 944-8577
"I recently returned from a 3-day Bhakti Yoga retreat. Bhakti Yoga is a devotional path to enlightenment in the Hindu tradition - the other main ones being Jnana (knowledge), Karma (service) and Raja (meditation/mind purification - similar to the Vipassana I've been practicing for the last couple years). It was a very positive experience overall, and something quite different than anything else I've encountered. The main thrust of Bhakti is to realize intimacy with God/Krishna through devotional practices such as Kirtan meditation (group chanting - think Gospel music) and Japa (private prayer/mantra/mediation using beads).
Again, this was an instance where my intuition told me to go and experience, without the need to research and rationalize the jaunt. And boy did it ever pay off! For starters, the food was fan-freaking-tastic; some the best vegetarian fare I've ever had. We met some amazing people, from newbies like us, to casual devotees to ashramites (residential spiritual practioners) to an initiated spiritual master. It was put on by the Carmichael Meditation Retreat Center, which also has a Hatha Yoga business called Lotus Garden. The meditation center is really more of an ashram, where folks can live and work while they study, meditate (sing and chant mantras). Similar to Vipassana (Buddhist meditation), the retreat was free. However, if you enjoyed the experience, the opportunity to donate exists.
My favorite parts of the weekend were the philosophy discourses and the informal one-on-ones with the practicioners and ashramites.
Before I go into too much detail on these, I need to offer a little disclaimer about my experience. This reflects only my own research on Bhakti, and this one experience, with one Bhakti group in the Sacramento area. It could be markedly different/better/worse elsewhere.
Bhakti is a very easy straight forward path - simply chanting and saying the names of God over and over to various tunes and in the confines of your own head. Unlike raja, there is no strict lifestyle discipline and committed hours on the cushion. Unlike jnana, there is required no love or stamina for philosophy, studying, etc. Unlike karma, there is no committment of service. All you have to do is sing, listen and chant, and your mind, body and soul become purified by the sacred sounds of the names of God. Essentially you're reprogramming your consciousness with spiritual mantras espousing a deep love of God, allowing the deprogramming of the material/matrix mantras (more, better, faster, etc.); the garbage just dies of atrophy.
Devotees get worked up into a frenzy singing, dancing, smiling and laughing. It's the rock 'n' roll path to enlightenment. Many of the Kirtan players were incredibly talented musicians and vocalists. I had a great time with Kirtan and am currently in a bit of Kirtan withdrawl.
So, as you might imagine, this particular path tends to attract a more fun loving, musically oriented and less chaste, somber or intellectual devotee.
I found this out the hard way, enquiring into the reasoning of every ashramite and devotee I met. Few had any conception of other yogas, spiritual traditions, Western psychology, etc. Virtually all of the ashramites had a zeal for the supremacy of Bhakti as the best path. Some chose to rationalize Bhakti's supremacy, by contending that the world is full of chaos, conflict and confusion and that all the other paths don't offer any solace from it as Bhakti does.
Many of the ashramites are young, in their late teens and twenties, and came from troubled upbringings (broken homes, disease, addiction, criminal past, etc.). This confirms the old joke that there is a significant difference between people who consider themselves religious and those who consider themselves spiritual. Religious people are afraid of hell; spiritual people have already been there. Many of the ashramites have unbelievable stories of transformation that they shared with us. Without a mind for critical thinking or knowledge of human development, one could easily walk away from such an experience believing that Bhakti yoga cures all forms of disease, mental illness, etc. However, upon close examination and employing a developmental psychological context, any embracing of God or emptying of one's mind of ills, especially after a traumatic upbringing, could appear as a panacea. I believe this accounts for the pervasive, though ill-informed, enthusiasm for Bhakti.
The only exception to the abundant ignorance of other paths, fields of study, etc. I encountered was when I cornered the resident ordained spiritual master, Jevon. He is a white-haired man in sixties, with whom I share a love of philosophy, psychology, physics, etc. In addition to having recieved direct spiritual training and the blessing to teach from his spiritual master (tracing a lineage back thousands of years), Jevon is a scholar of Christianity. I dare say that without my encounters with Jevon I would have written off Bhakti as Disneyland spirituality.
Throughout the two Baghavad Gita philosophy discussions, I hit Jevon with question after question pertaining to psychology, democracy, conformity, creativity, empowerment, other paths, the work of Aurobindo and Krishnamurti. He seemed incredibly astute, drawing on his own experiences being raised Catholic, as a former devotee of Paramahansa Yogananda's Raja yoga, and as a scholar of the work of Krishnamurti. He was a bit light on the Integral Yoga of Aurobindo, and on how his philosophy might pertain to Bhakti. Otherwise, I was very impressed.
He talked to me as if he was part channeling, with his eyes closed and part consciously engaged. It was sort of as if he had a mission to relate what had been imparted to him, but could employ his creativity and reasoning in how he communicated it to me. Knowing me to be fond of physics, metaphor and obsessed with intellectual integrity, he tailored his responses to resonate with my language of choice. Very cool to experience.
I learned a great deal from Jevon, specifically related to the process of spiritual learning or ascension. True knowledge can come from three places:
Direct experience of the seeker
Confirmation and interpretation of said experience in scripture
Confirmation and interpretation of said experience by spiritual master, who is himself the living embodiment of the scripture, as the direct lineage of his tutelage predates what is written (handed down from Krishna to students/master to student/master for thousands of years).
I'm pretty convinced that all you need is the first one, but the last two would be nice to have as well.
Jevon's core nugget of wisdom followed after I asked him a question on why Eastern paths so deeply confuse and alienate Westerners. He replied that spirituality as a practice and science has been consistently part of Indian culture for several thousands of years, only first being written down 5,000 years ago, and as such the advancement of spiritual thinking and practice is unfamiliar and alienating to Westerners who hold more primative forms of spirituality sacred (Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all relative newcomers to the God game).
Much as a student of 4th grade math (multiplication, addition, subtraction and division) does not see that 4th grade math is indeed part of calculus, and that calculus is an evolution, not departure from math, a devotee of a Western religion fails to see the grandeur of spirituality as practiced in the East. In fact, Westerners even think its something altogether different, aka not religion! We Westerners are blinded by our ignorance in this respect.
Want a good steak? Ask an Argentinian. A good watch? Ask a Swiss. A good car? Talk to a German. And if it is spirituality you seek, look to the East.
I have decided that incorporating a devotional aspect of spirituality into my practice is a worthwhile endeavor. Moreover, I remain convinced, that while Bhakti may not be my sole and lasting spiritual practice, I should keep looking East in my search. If you're the kind of seeker who loves music, singing and dancing or detests chastidy, silence and study, Bhakti is for you. While I don't detest any of the latter, I certainly love to sing and dance, so instead of boring myself and girlfriend with the mundane lyrics of Pearl Jam or the Eagles, I look forward to blending artistic expression with my obsession for evolution, spiritual communion and self-realization, through Bhakti. So if you see me chanting "Rama Rama" or rocking back and forth in spiritual ecstasy with beads between my fingers, you'll know why!"
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
shanti
()
Date: May 24, 2007 06:35AM
Okay...
Actually, a LOT bothers me about running across that blog concerning that young mans reaction to his experience re: Bhakti Yoga.
First...
I didn't intend to make it sound "more important" because it's happening in the USA rather than another country...sorry about that! It's important no matter what part of the globe it is!
Second...
Mostly the fact that it IS an ashram & houses young people...all ex-devotees on here know what it can be like to be surrounded by this dogma 24/7... you're so isolated from the outside world...it's scary to even think about now. And, this is going on, and being promoted / referred to, by many official Yoga websites online. Just Google the name of that meditation center and look at the results!
I am afraid for these young minds.
Third...
This young man walked away impressed. Why? Because he meet, he thought, a very intelligent spiritual leader there...able to answer most of his questions. And...gee, was acting all spiritual...almost channeling his responses. Holy shit!
Gotcha! The food was great, kirtan was fun, and a _holyman_ was able to discuss things intelligently. That's all it took for this seeker to be impressed. Said spiritual guy had a list of I've participated in this and that, and had a good line of babble. This young man never even bothered to find out anything about "Jevon" other than what he saw that day. I'm hoping upon hope that he has not participated any further.
EXPOSURE & education... seems to be our only recourse.
How frustrating it all is. How many people actually seek out a web site
such as this one when in the in middle of looking for answers for themselves?
Actually, a LOT bothers me about running across that blog concerning that young mans reaction to his experience re: Bhakti Yoga.
First...
I didn't intend to make it sound "more important" because it's happening in the USA rather than another country...sorry about that! It's important no matter what part of the globe it is!
Second...
Mostly the fact that it IS an ashram & houses young people...all ex-devotees on here know what it can be like to be surrounded by this dogma 24/7... you're so isolated from the outside world...it's scary to even think about now. And, this is going on, and being promoted / referred to, by many official Yoga websites online. Just Google the name of that meditation center and look at the results!
I am afraid for these young minds.
Third...
This young man walked away impressed. Why? Because he meet, he thought, a very intelligent spiritual leader there...able to answer most of his questions. And...gee, was acting all spiritual...almost channeling his responses. Holy shit!
Gotcha! The food was great, kirtan was fun, and a _holyman_ was able to discuss things intelligently. That's all it took for this seeker to be impressed. Said spiritual guy had a list of I've participated in this and that, and had a good line of babble. This young man never even bothered to find out anything about "Jevon" other than what he saw that day. I'm hoping upon hope that he has not participated any further.
EXPOSURE & education... seems to be our only recourse.
How frustrating it all is. How many people actually seek out a web site
such as this one when in the in middle of looking for answers for themselves?
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
shanti
()
Date: May 24, 2007 12:21PM
Jivan Krishna das
Born John Scott Moore in Texas 1945-1946 (don't remember year! )
Eldest of nine children. Morris & Derrell Moore parents.
Became acquainted & heavily recruited by Chris in 1971 on Kauai, HI.
Left his pregnant mate, & became initiated sometime in 1972 - 1973....this mate has other children from previous marriage...1 daughter, one son.
Jivan marries another devotee via Chris' request around 1976.
He father's 2 children by this devotee.
Helped open many businesses for Chris in Hawaii...Down to Earth, Healthy's Fast Foods & other health food stores, small restaurants, car repair shops etc on Kauai, Maui & Oahu. Time frames a bit fuzzy on some...wasn't "there" for all those...was there for Healthy's Fast Foods in 1984...helped do research and some recipe development. So these time frames overlap a lot here.
Brought two of his brothers into chanting:Balaram das & Drishya Krishna das. Balaram was an armed guard for Chris (at least) during the years the Warehouse operated. Drishya was involved in the music recording studio that Chris had going at the same time fame.
Lived in Austin, TX in mid-late 1970's.
Re-united with his former mate from Kauai, & their child, in Austin 1979. Mates daughter comes to live with them...she is 15, pregnant & not married.
Daughter marries Drishya. Drishya and daughter move to Honolulu to do 'service'.
Jivan continues kirtans in Austin, Chris visits Austin. Eventually, ex-mate travels to Honolulu to become an initiated disciple.
Leaves mate & his children in Austin, goes to China for a "mission" for Chris. Returns to Austin briefly.
Jivan is diagnosed as being bi-polar...his behavior patterns are SO erratic, mate insist he sees doctor. Doctor prescribes medication, which he takes for a short time...GIANT improvement...HELLO! Chris hears about this...tells Jivan, no more medications...the doctors don't know what they're talking about. In fact, Chris loves him being manic. Jivan does tons of projects for him while in a manic phase. Jivan can be literally up for days working on something, no problem.
Jivan winds up leaving mate & children in Austin to move back to Honolulu to do "service" for Chris.
Jivan has an affair with mates daughter (from earlier marriage) after returning to Honolulu. She is also a initiated devotee by this time..."married" to Drishya... his own brother don't forget!
Chris calls Austin...mate needs to come to Honolulu to break up said affair.
Mate whom is Chris' disciple, of course goes to Honolulu...obey Spiritual Master is bottom line.
Much trauma occurs, daughter is totally distraught, mate is flipped out, and Jivan is nonchalant about the whole thing...except Chris has given him "orders"...affair MUST end ! Daughter is "in love" with Jivan...and this is the start of the unraveling of mother / daughter relationship for the rest of their lives!
Mate endures months of trying to talk sense into daughter, gets chastised by Chris, and in the end tells Jivan to fuck off, and leaves chanting, & Chris behind, riding off into the sunset back to the mainland.
Jivan's escapdes with women do not end there by any means.
How do I know all that I have written to be true?
I was there.
I was the "Mate".
Any questions?
The above is a small part of my personal account of the person described as:
"the resident ordained spiritual master, Jevon. He is a white-haired man in sixties, with whom I share a love of philosophy, psychology, physics, etc. In addition to having recieved direct spiritual training and the blessing to teach from his spiritual master (tracing a lineage back thousands of years), Jevon is a scholar of Christianity."
"He talked to me as if he was part channeling, with his eyes closed and part consciously engaged. It was sort of as if he had a mission to relate what had been imparted to him, but could employ his creativity and reasoning in how he communicated it to me."
I don't blame this young man for his perceptions of Jivan...
I'm just trying trying to point out the duplicity of these people who are 'leaders' in Chris' organization, with the reality of who I know them to be. He is the best example I have, because I was personally involved.
Too bad we can't go by:
if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably IS a duck!
Either Jivan's become a saint...NOT! ...or his line of BS has gotten even better. Very scary stuff.
And I'm not betraying anyone by saying all this...
nor failing to 'protect' anyone. If you were around then, you know this story any way.
If you weren't around...this is a good example of the craziness that went on, & most likely still goes on.
Born John Scott Moore in Texas 1945-1946 (don't remember year! )
Eldest of nine children. Morris & Derrell Moore parents.
Became acquainted & heavily recruited by Chris in 1971 on Kauai, HI.
Left his pregnant mate, & became initiated sometime in 1972 - 1973....this mate has other children from previous marriage...1 daughter, one son.
Jivan marries another devotee via Chris' request around 1976.
He father's 2 children by this devotee.
Helped open many businesses for Chris in Hawaii...Down to Earth, Healthy's Fast Foods & other health food stores, small restaurants, car repair shops etc on Kauai, Maui & Oahu. Time frames a bit fuzzy on some...wasn't "there" for all those...was there for Healthy's Fast Foods in 1984...helped do research and some recipe development. So these time frames overlap a lot here.
Brought two of his brothers into chanting:Balaram das & Drishya Krishna das. Balaram was an armed guard for Chris (at least) during the years the Warehouse operated. Drishya was involved in the music recording studio that Chris had going at the same time fame.
Lived in Austin, TX in mid-late 1970's.
Re-united with his former mate from Kauai, & their child, in Austin 1979. Mates daughter comes to live with them...she is 15, pregnant & not married.
Daughter marries Drishya. Drishya and daughter move to Honolulu to do 'service'.
Jivan continues kirtans in Austin, Chris visits Austin. Eventually, ex-mate travels to Honolulu to become an initiated disciple.
Leaves mate & his children in Austin, goes to China for a "mission" for Chris. Returns to Austin briefly.
Jivan is diagnosed as being bi-polar...his behavior patterns are SO erratic, mate insist he sees doctor. Doctor prescribes medication, which he takes for a short time...GIANT improvement...HELLO! Chris hears about this...tells Jivan, no more medications...the doctors don't know what they're talking about. In fact, Chris loves him being manic. Jivan does tons of projects for him while in a manic phase. Jivan can be literally up for days working on something, no problem.
Jivan winds up leaving mate & children in Austin to move back to Honolulu to do "service" for Chris.
Jivan has an affair with mates daughter (from earlier marriage) after returning to Honolulu. She is also a initiated devotee by this time..."married" to Drishya... his own brother don't forget!
Chris calls Austin...mate needs to come to Honolulu to break up said affair.
Mate whom is Chris' disciple, of course goes to Honolulu...obey Spiritual Master is bottom line.
Much trauma occurs, daughter is totally distraught, mate is flipped out, and Jivan is nonchalant about the whole thing...except Chris has given him "orders"...affair MUST end ! Daughter is "in love" with Jivan...and this is the start of the unraveling of mother / daughter relationship for the rest of their lives!
Mate endures months of trying to talk sense into daughter, gets chastised by Chris, and in the end tells Jivan to fuck off, and leaves chanting, & Chris behind, riding off into the sunset back to the mainland.
Jivan's escapdes with women do not end there by any means.
How do I know all that I have written to be true?
I was there.
I was the "Mate".
Any questions?
The above is a small part of my personal account of the person described as:
"the resident ordained spiritual master, Jevon. He is a white-haired man in sixties, with whom I share a love of philosophy, psychology, physics, etc. In addition to having recieved direct spiritual training and the blessing to teach from his spiritual master (tracing a lineage back thousands of years), Jevon is a scholar of Christianity."
"He talked to me as if he was part channeling, with his eyes closed and part consciously engaged. It was sort of as if he had a mission to relate what had been imparted to him, but could employ his creativity and reasoning in how he communicated it to me."
I don't blame this young man for his perceptions of Jivan...
I'm just trying trying to point out the duplicity of these people who are 'leaders' in Chris' organization, with the reality of who I know them to be. He is the best example I have, because I was personally involved.
Too bad we can't go by:
if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably IS a duck!
Either Jivan's become a saint...NOT! ...or his line of BS has gotten even better. Very scary stuff.
And I'm not betraying anyone by saying all this...
nor failing to 'protect' anyone. If you were around then, you know this story any way.
If you weren't around...this is a good example of the craziness that went on, & most likely still goes on.
Krishna group in Hawaii
Posted by:
MeanReds
()
Date: May 24, 2007 12:42PM
Hi Shanti,
Brandon Peele appears to be a walking advertisement for eastern religion (even cults) and self-help gurus. It seems to be a money making venture as he has the 'Namaste Economics' business, where he uses philosophy and personal growth lectures to increase profits for corporations.
The above quote seems coincidental since if he had attempted research prior to the attending this retreat and writing "Bhakti Yoga" he would have been sorely disappointed. Notice to he never mentions Siddhaswarupananda's name or Science of Identity. This seems to be a calculated omission as do all SIF sites that actually offer some contact details for meditation or yoga to browsers.
The third paragraph is interesting in it's description with it's Christian library.
He does seem to suggest if not for Jivan/Jevon he would have walked away thinking the people to be ignorant but due to Jivan alone being a Christian scholar and knowledgeable of other philosophers he seemed to be unconvinced it's the Disneyland of yoga.
The article is not refering to an experience of Lotus Gardens but of "Four Springs" Retreat:
www.foursprings.com
Bhakti Yoga Retreat
January 19-21, 2007
The Meditation Center, (916) 967-1911
There was another retreat this month and a coming one in august. In the interim mostly Christian groups hold retreats. Perhaps Lotus Gardens hires a section of the property for followers and disciple to live there permanently?
Hmm.. This is interesting good find!
Anyone looking for more information on this Bhakti Yoga retreat... It is [u:a04b83c02a][b:a04b83c02a]RUN BY A CULT![/b:a04b83c02a][/u:a04b83c02a] People will find info on Science of Identity Shanti ;) Now it's available.
Brandon Peele appears to be a walking advertisement for eastern religion (even cults) and self-help gurus. It seems to be a money making venture as he has the 'Namaste Economics' business, where he uses philosophy and personal growth lectures to increase profits for corporations.
Quote
Again, this was an instance where my intuition told me to go and experience, without the need to research and rationalize the jaunt. And boy did it ever pay off!
The above quote seems coincidental since if he had attempted research prior to the attending this retreat and writing "Bhakti Yoga" he would have been sorely disappointed. Notice to he never mentions Siddhaswarupananda's name or Science of Identity. This seems to be a calculated omission as do all SIF sites that actually offer some contact details for meditation or yoga to browsers.
Quote
The setting was amazing - nestled in the hills near Calistoga, the Four Springs retreat center offered a peaceful venue for us to commune and take a spiritual journey. On the 150 acres, the main facilities included a spring-fed pool, lodge and Christian library. This place is fairly ancient as far as California spiritual centers go, celebrating its 50th anniversary this year (it was founded by four housewives in the 50's for spiritual retreats - virtually an unheard of endeavor in the day). In addition to the Kirtan and Japa, we enjoyed a couple discussions on the philosophy of the Baghavad Gita, some Hatha Yoga and some Qigong (pr. Chee Gung).
The third paragraph is interesting in it's description with it's Christian library.
He does seem to suggest if not for Jivan/Jevon he would have walked away thinking the people to be ignorant but due to Jivan alone being a Christian scholar and knowledgeable of other philosophers he seemed to be unconvinced it's the Disneyland of yoga.
The article is not refering to an experience of Lotus Gardens but of "Four Springs" Retreat:
www.foursprings.com
Bhakti Yoga Retreat
January 19-21, 2007
The Meditation Center, (916) 967-1911
There was another retreat this month and a coming one in august. In the interim mostly Christian groups hold retreats. Perhaps Lotus Gardens hires a section of the property for followers and disciple to live there permanently?
Hmm.. This is interesting good find!
Anyone looking for more information on this Bhakti Yoga retreat... It is [u:a04b83c02a][b:a04b83c02a]RUN BY A CULT![/b:a04b83c02a][/u:a04b83c02a] People will find info on Science of Identity Shanti ;) Now it's available.
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