Thasns Concerned. I guess as with all of us, sooner or later the truth will be found about intentions. It is just so disturbing to hear of abuse in that household. I have so many good memories of Don and Alise and their children when they were young.

I have spent over 10 years searching for any information on this group and finally found this fourm last night. I grew up in St John's Lutheran Church and was part of the Hickman's following when it first started in the late 60s...

I still read.

I look for suspicious phrases like:

1) Let's remember the good times
2) Let's be careful what we say
3) Do you have proof?
4) False allegations are bad

Those of us who really did leave are hyper - sensitive to the subtle brainwashing techniques of ''pretenders''.

I'm just sayin.....

Here's what I believe about psychological abuse.

An abuser who wants to mask their crimes will go out of their way to deceive people. They'll try to convince others that they believe something which they really don't believe. How confusing to young people.

For example a cult member may try to deceive others into thinking that they disapprove of cult activities while in fact...they SUPPORT their own cult. They may speak against cults but they'll do it by saying things like

1 - ALL cults are bad
2 - It's bad when people are ''IN the World but not OF the World''
3 - It's bad when people think they know ''The Truth''
4 - Don't listen to people who say they know ''The Way''
5 - Cults are people who ''judge others''

These are ''subtle'' references to main stream Christians. The above phrases are commonly used Christian jargon Since Christianity is the main religion in our country it's just a ''subtle'' way for a cult supporter to imply that ''everyone thinks they're special and everyone lives separate from the world in their own way''. While they claim to be disapproving of cults they're actually redirecting that disaproval towards the ''outside'' world. .

Did someone say two of the former youth ended up in mental hospitals? Well I believe it. Schizophrenia maybe? Has anyone ever heard of ''the double bind'' method of parenting. I've heard it called ''schizophrenogenic parenting''.?

With all the psychology talk that people do on this thread I would have expected those terms to come up. It's raising a person up in a ''damned if you do and damned if you don't'' environment. Mixed messages are deliberately given. The child feels confused of course but it serves the abuser also. It sets the child up for failure. This can be quite satisfying for a sadistic adult who wants to abuse/punish/discipline.

Just some thoughts......

Mind games and mixed messages are par for the course with this group. 13 years ago and I still remember like it was yesterday. It had been 4 years since I left the group and my father came to me with a final offer. I could rejoin the group now but time was running out. I was told those that left were dead branches that would have to be cut. Also that those that left were in danger from (I think) members of the Abensur family from Israel and were being watched. What kind of danger, I asked, but I never got a straight answer.

It's a good thing I held out for a better offer because years later he came back with a new one - I could come back whenever I wanted. Oh thank goodness!!

Believe it or not I'm still here, I haven't been "cut" and there are no strange Israelis hiding in my bushes with a telephoto lens. I'm proud that I stuck to my guns but truth be told this all messed with my head so bad I may never recover. Hope that's not the case.

Damaged 13,
Your post describes something which politicians refer to as a ''flip flop'''. It occurs over the years. An authority figure will change their pov(point of view) and appear weak. The public shakes their head in confusion and sometimes the politicians loses votes because of it.


Soooo....


Then there is something which people have referred to as SCHIZOPHRENOGENIC PARENTING. It occurs when ''mixed messages'' are given to powerless individuals simultaneously. The powerless individual cannot simply walk away because the ''message sender'' is demanding a response.


All interesting stuff....I think ....

Did someone say two members of this cult have ended up in mental hospitals. I think I may know who three of them (oh did I say three)...yeh three...I think I know who three of them may be.

At least one of the Smestad grandchildren was abused (a fact not an accusation). Three year olds do not make accusations. I am sure there have been many more. This is a very sick, deviant family that when questioned, cuts ties and runs. As did Greg Smestad 15 years ago, as did Alice Smestad 5 months ago. There own blood is not worth them even sticking it out and proving themselves or providing for if there was no abuse as they falsly claim. Do not ever speak to me about the kindness of that family. Don Smestad is as much a fake as I hear Hickman was. He never could answer a question straight. That family destroyed my beautiful little girl, who by the way is no longer a Smestad.

There is no documentation proving it to be false. I have the victim herself. I have her drawings, recordings etc etc. When my daughter's therapist was given a supeona (sp?) to appear as a witness for Greg, and he did not know that my child had just revealed significant accounts of abuse and found this out in court; his lawyer suddenly said that Greg was "offering to give up all rights "to my child and have her adopted by my soon to be husband. You tell me does that sound like an innocent father who has evidence that the abuse didn't occur". The day he gave her up in court, it was me in tears crying for the damage and pain I knew my child would go threw with abandonment on top of abuse. Greg and his father just stood in court the whole time with no emotion. Greg's own attorney would not even ride in the elevator with him. The attorney told me on the way down that "I ruined his day" apparantly he had believed Greg too until he saw TRUTH in me. I am sick of that families BS. My child contacted Alice Smestad asking for restitution, challenging her basically that if they claim innocence why would they not help her now - financially or otherwise; with college etc. Alice said she would talk to Don and we never heard from her again. Give me a break!

Quote
damaged13
Mind games and mixed messages are par for the course with this group. 13 years ago and I still remember like it was yesterday. It had been 4 years since I left the group and my father came to me with a final offer. I could rejoin the group now but time was running out. I was told those that left were dead branches that would have to be cut. Also that those that left were in danger from (I think) members of the Abensur family from Israel and were being watched. What kind of danger, I asked, but I never got a straight answer.

It's a good thing I held out for a better offer because years later he came back with a new one - I could come back whenever I wanted. Oh thank goodness!!

Believe it or not I'm still here, I haven't been "cut" and there are no strange Israelis hiding in my bushes with a telephoto lens. I'm proud that I stuck to my guns but truth be told this all messed with my head so bad I may never recover. Hope that's not the case.

damaged 13- it sounds like you are a "grownup", at least over 21? so my question - WHY DID YOU RETURN?

Here's an example of a ''mixed message''

Joe Shmoe says #1) ''I'm on this Board which is called mind control and abuse so that I can talk about mind control and abuse''
This same Joe Shmoe then says #2) ''oooohhhh talking about abuse is very negative and I'm hurt and wounded by all this talk. I want to heal from my abusive past but can't because someone else is talking about abuse''

Or......................

Joe Shmoe says #1)'' I cut off physical ties to this group because they are technically a cult which is a negative thing.''
While simultaneously saying #2) ''I still have emotional ties to these people because I learned all sorts of positive things during my time with them. Let's not talk negatively about these people''



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/24/2011 12:00AM by Sallie.