Concerned 1210

I don't know that I can add anything that hasn't been said. I think it depends on your relationship with your family members. The people who were there in 1982 and decided to stay were adults and had the right to make whatever decision they made for themselves and their families. At least one person I know of decided to stay to keep his family together. I don't know what he believes now or how that worked out for him. I agree with exfollower that "logic, questions, arguing, debate etc, is a dead end; and as others have said, they would be defensive and it would be probably be counterproductive." Their is no logic to this kind of blind belief, many of us have been there and believed in that way. There was certainly nothing my family could of said to me at the time that would have changed what I believed.

As disillusioned 1 says, "Keep reaching out. The more people someone has that are not involved that continue to be a positive influence on their life, the better for them." Being there for someone, when they start to have doubts and being able to listen without judging, or trying to convince them or push them may be helpful. No matter what you cannot control the outcome. So if you can let go of the idea that you are going to cause them to see or understand something they have missed and just be there as a friend and grow your relationship, you will both get something from that. So I would say being available and maintaining friendship with your family member and their children is important.

It sounds like you've been trying to find the right words or behavior that would change them for 30 years. I can only imagine how hard it is to watch loved ones in that situation.

Disillusioned 1

You bring up some very important issues, which are: how do we define abuse? When is strict religious teaching abusive to children and others? When does a parent's right to parent cross over a line and become abuse? How do we as a society define and prevent mental and emotional abuse?

Many religious or cultural groups prevent their children from going to public school and arrange marriages. Many religious groups do not allow their members to live freely. I am not defending this, simply stating facts. You are right to say it is insidious. I believe it is dangerous for any group to declare that they know the only and right way. This only opens doors to a "us vs. them" mentality. I know this is dangerous to the people involved and much more so to the children brought up inside.

Legally, I am not sure what choices there are. Unless gross and open abuses are occurring I don't think the authorities are likely to get involved. I may be overreacting, but I also fear an armed defense against such action.

So what are the choices? You would know better than I. Is it possible for those of us with no relatives or friends still involved, to reach out to those inside this group? What could we do to help? Are there people inside who want out and are too afraid to find a way?

Thank you for all the replies. I only have a minute so I won't be able to address them tonight.

However, one thing that stood out to me: You will never get an argument out of me about someone's freedom to chose a religion. However that being said, when I hear accusations that one of the Smestad grandchildren was abused, I say how can we on the outside have any feeling of security that our "lower ranking" family members are safe?

Just a thought.....

What was that about one of the Smestad grandchildren being abused?

Not sure what it is that you are vehemently disagreeing with me abiut. Can you please clarify that. Thanks
Also the examples you give about the psychological effects of "community life" can be applied to any radical religious or cultural group that has made a decision to live among society but not within it. My concern is for the children and young people living within that community and want to expose themselves to another life style. What happens when they try. Are they physically prevented from leaving, are they threatened emotionally or verbally with feelings of shame and failure. I am not trying to "dumb down", to use your term, anything that happens here. I am well aware of the damge that can occur as the result of mental and emotional abuse so please do not insult or patronize me. Laslty where did you get that number, 50K, of people reading these posts because of damage that has been done to them.
I will be among the first to try and help, save or rescue anyone who wants to leave but is prevented either physically or emotionally.

The allegations that one of the Smestad grandchildren was abused, are and continue to be false allegations. There is LEGAL documentation that the allegations were false.

Thank you for clarifying that. False allegations are wrong to spread around and should be stopped.

Marvin, the abuse of Smestad's grandchild I was referring to was detailed in the posts by Greg Smestad's ex wife. I believed her when she wrote this, and the post by Fightingliars is the first time I have heard this refuted. What information is this based on? Perhaps I just feel skeptical because its your first post.

Concerned,

Sorry about your skeptisim but this is not my first post. I have been on this site for many months now. My only concern was for the children. I was very close with Don and Alise and their children and I was shocked to hear even an allegation of abuse.

Sorry Marvin, the skepticism is aimed at Fightingliars, not you. I too worry for the kids. Never heard the allegations were proven false, and it being his first post I remain unsure as to what the truth is.