Maybe this will scare 'em off:

Display a big sign with RICK ROSS MESSAGE BOARD SOKKA GOKKAI CULT
on your front door.

If it works well, you'll find a puddle of piss and liquid do do on your doorstep.

That's where the senior person lost spincer control, then steered the junior outreach worker away.. ha ha.

Indeed, while at the ymd FNCC confrence I sat through one of Steve Sapersteins "choose faith over family speaches". My head was spinning, did he just...oh ya he did say "so we were in the hospital room and this guy was getting really close(lung cancer), he could hardly breath but all he wanted to do was chant" then after this guy being alienated from his family for a year due to "the practice", his family walks in during the dimoku. His daughters were so moved the one even began to chant right there in the hospital room till her fauthers last breath. So there you have it, if you stick to your guns the SGI will not only steal years of your life(or even the final year(s) but extract peciouse faith all the way down to your last breath.
Maybe someone finds this relevant

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Zhinichi llamamoto
Indeed, while at the ymd FNCC confrence I sat through one of Steve Sapersteins "choose faith over family speaches". My head was spinning, did he just...oh ya he did say "so we were in the hospital room and this guy was getting really close(lung cancer), he could hardly breath but all he wanted to do was chant" then after this guy being alienated from his family for a year due to "the practice", his family walks in during the dimoku. His daughters were so moved the one even began to chant right there in the hospital room till her fauthers last breath. So there you have it, if you stick to your guns the SGI will not only steal years of your life(or even the final year(s) but extract peciouse faith all the way down to your last breath.
Maybe someone finds this relevant

So, he actually got a huge benefit, he got one of his daughters to start chanting the magic words.

Yup, sums up their thinking perfectly.

Btw, I'm not surprised, because I know for a FACT that some of their "facilitators" are as crazy as a monkey on a tricycle. I wouldn't let them "facilitate" even for my dog.

The Rick Ross Former SGI-Member Baseball Team takes the field.

1st up to bat is "SGBye", "fortune baby." Swings, nice hit and runs to 1st base.

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SGBye
I just came across an experience in the 10/23/09 issue of the World Tribune that is so ridiculous that I have to post about it. It's by a woman in California talking about how she and her daughter, named Destiny, overcame their problems through chanting and reading Ikeda's guidance. Towards the end of the article it reads:

"I wish that I could hug President Ikeda and thank him for the difficulties he endured so that people like me can transform their lives and find happiness amid darkness. Destiny, now 4, chants with me every morning and evening, and asks to attend meetings every day. She has me start out the morning by reading out loud her favorite piece of President Ikeda's guidance. She asked me to frame it and put it on the wall next to our altar, which I did. He writes: 'Prayer is the courage to persevere. It is the struggle to overcome our own weakness and lack of confidence in ourselves. It is the act of impressing in the very depths of our being the conviction that we can change the situation without fail. Prayer is the way to destroy all fear. It is the way to banish sorrow, the way to light a torch of hope. It is the revolution that rewrites the scenario of our destiny.'"

Did you catch that her daughter is 4 years old? Four! Asking me to believe that your four-year-old wants to go to an SGI meeting every day is one thing, but asking me to believe that she even remotely understands that bit of guidance is insulting to my intelligence.

Next up to bat, is "Rothaus-1", strong swing, hit, makes it to 1st base (SGBye goes to 2nd).

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Rothaus
This story is actually quite sad – me thinks. I wonder what our “fortune babies” have to say about that. Was it not you Evergreen, you had to donate money as a child for the Shohondo?
Reading this I actually question the mothers capabilities as a parent. If the child would say I want to got the beach every day, to the playground, to the park, to cover herself every day with mud from head to toe and fall off trees – the I would say “yeap, four year olds”. But this is utterly insane – and then even publish it !!! ????
The more I learn here the more I believe some parts of SGI seem to go completely bunkers these days.

Up now, "Evergreen", also a "fortune baby." Good strong swing, good hit and runs to 1st base. Bases now loaded.

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evergreen
I have a four year old and she can't read words that are more complicated than things like "cat" or "dog". Maybe Destiny's child is a genious? I tried to impress my parents (and get some attention which was sorely lacking due to nightly meetings) by learning gongyo at age 7. Regarding the guidance, in the end, I can't say that I have been personally transformed or moved by Ikeda's guidance. Sounds a lot like "once I accepted Jesus as my personal saviour" to me.

"Rothaus-2" steps up to the plate, HITS it out of the ballpark (!!) HOME RUN and brings 'em all in.

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Rothaus
Well okay, even in my active days in SGI, if would have heard that story on a meeting I would have thought to myself "poor child her mum is a bit a fruitcake". But then even going out an publishing it? Are they all out of touch with the real world now? Has it become that bad?
If "Ikeda Sensei" would say lets all jump over the cliff ... there would be a drastic shortage of members. Mad thats waht it is. Sorry, but thinking of it I really feel for the poor child.

Rothaus, it hasn't "become" that bad, it has always been that bad.

**********

I only hope that "Destiny" can someday take control and change her own life's path, and truly live up to her namesake.

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evergreen
I think I've written before on this forum about fortune babies, about being told we were special. I think this was manipulastive. Some people actually thought we were special. Almost like we had a gift or had super powers. However, it alienated members who were not born into the practice. It gave some fortune babies the idea that they were special and they then became truly arrogant. I still have friends that are fortune babies. Some pratice and some don't. I chanted and did gongyo myself in order to make my parents happy. Once all of us grew up it got ugly. We now had our own independent thinking that our parents couldn't control. And we were bitter that our childhoods had been robbed from us, for the sake of what. Nothing in our minds warranted the negligence from our parents.

As for me? I didn't feel I was fortunate period. What a misnomer!

You are describing my life in the practice. Speaking as a so-called "fortune baby", I always felt the exact opposite, too. It was an extreme misfortune to be born into the practice. I've come to find, however, that while our experiences might be uniquely buddhist-cult in nature, there are many others out there who went thru very similar versions under different religious banners (e.g., Catholic, Mormon, Judaism, etc.). Some of the things that they've shared with me, makes me realize that only I went thru mental-child-abuse-lite in comparison (thank goodness).

That said, I also feel that a part of my youth was "robbed" from me, as well. I have more bitterness towards some of the ol' "leaders" that I recall. I'd love to run across some of them by accident now as a full thinking adult and engage in some of my own heart-to-heart "dialogue." Perhaps someday I will have that chance.

Being marked out as special is a horrible thing.

You're cut off from most of humanity.

If you have doubts, have any human feelings of loneliness, sadness, you're alienated from your own true self because being a 'fortune baby' should mean never having such feelings at all.

If you cant confide in all the non fortune babies, whom can you confide in? Other fortune people, many of whom might shut you up for daring to rouse issues that they cant stand to face, either.

I wasnt born into a cult. But I crossed paths with a messed up spiritual director who told me I had a special connection with the divine.

All that did was leave me feeling scared and confused -- and all the more dependent on the guy who told me that ego inflating nonsense.

Being told you're special is manipulative. Its the very thing that's almost impossible to discuss with others, which contributes to the isolation.

But one can break free. It does mean walking away from the ego seduction of specialness.

However, once you've gotten free from this, you will have an insider's perspective on the dangers of celebrity culture.

Hitch, I definitely see a lot of similarities in our experiences. "Stark raving nuts gakkai kamikaze soldier"? I knew many of those! It seems that you had a rebellious streak in you and I was the same. I would go along with the SGI shenanigans, but I'd be rolling my eyes at the same time and thinking, "Are these people for real?" But children are taught to listen to their elders and authority figures - in our case, gakkai leaders - and so I did what I was told. If I could go back and re-do everything with my current knowledge, I'd send some YMD leaders off a cliff. I can’t believe I spent the first 30+ years of my life in a cult, but then again, I'm glad I realized it and got out as soon as I did, which can’t be said of some people. Which brings me back to my parents again:

Several pages back Shavoy mentioned the proverbial carrot of prosperity and happiness that is dangled in front of the members. I remember Ikeda giving guidance about how if you practice correctly and work hard for Kosen Rufu, you will reap tremendous benefit and enjoy your golden years. My parents have been members since the ‘60’s. They were respected leaders in their area who attended meeting after meeting, did home visitations, gave a lot of time and money to the organization, etc. They are now in their 70’s and my mother has numerous physical ailments which inhibits her speech and ability to walk. My father can’t enjoy his golden years because he’s completely worn out from being her caretaker. So where is their payoff? Where are their “glorious golden years”? Yet, they continue to practice this “Buddhism” (even though they‘re not really engaged with the organization so much). My theory for their continuation is that they’re just in it too deep - that to just stop now would be like throwing away the last 40+ years of their lives. Also, they’re at an age when change doesn’t come easy, if at all. I’ve watched them sit down to do Gongyo as though they were robots on auto-pilot. It’s sad really.

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corboy
However, once you've gotten free from this, you will have an insider's perspective on the dangers of celebrity culture.

Definitely agreed.

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SGBye
If I could go back and re-do everything with my current knowledge, I'd send some YMD leaders off a cliff. I can’t believe I spent the first 30+ years of my life in a cult, but then again, I'm glad I realized it and got out as soon as I did, which can’t be said of some people.

That makes two of us.

It's a harsh reality to admit one has been fooled, but at least we didn't remain fooled. In that regard, we are more "fortunate" than many others who may never come to even realize what is being done to them.

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SGBye
Several pages back Shavoy mentioned the proverbial carrot of prosperity and happiness that is dangled in front of the members. I remember Ikeda giving guidance about how if you practice correctly and work hard for Kosen Rufu, you will reap tremendous benefit and enjoy your golden years. My parents have been members since the ‘60’s. They were respected leaders in their area who attended meeting after meeting, did home visitations, gave a lot of time and money to the organization, etc. They are now in their 70’s and my mother has numerous physical ailments which inhibits her speech and ability to walk. My father can’t enjoy his golden years because he’s completely worn out from being her caretaker. So where is their payoff? Where are their “glorious golden years”? Yet, they continue to practice this “Buddhism” (even though they‘re not really engaged with the organization so much). My theory for their continuation is that they’re just in it too deep - that to just stop now would be like throwing away the last 40+ years of their lives. Also, they’re at an age when change doesn’t come easy, if at all. I’ve watched them sit down to do Gongyo as though they were robots on auto-pilot. It’s sad really.

Gongyo and especially the long hours of daimoku that were always encouraged, were extremely oppressive rituals to me. A heavy, stressful burden. I have never felt freer than when I stopped - like a liberation and a new lease on life. A part of me is still kind of repulsed whenever I see people chanting; I know that they superficially believe the opposite, but it is actually life avoiding behavior (magical, wishful thinking).

To me, it's all based on fear and superstition. That's definitely the thing keeping my one remaining parent (also a member since the 60's) in. It's a basic part of being human and is a means to assuage discomfort. Conquering fear is the beginning of wisdom, but some are incapable of taking that critical step and the longer they are held hostage to it, the more unlikely and/or difficult it is to able to walk away from it.

(The perennial disclaimer: JMO.)

hi Hitch. I would just like to point out to you that the SGI's practice [Ikedaism or prosperity through the magic of Daimoku and the mentor] is only superficially similar to the actual practice of Nichiren Lotus Sutra Buddhism. Have you read the Lotus Sutra? Most SGI members have not even read the entire Lotus Sutra but they have read all twenty or so volumes of the Human Revolution, New Human Revolution, and New New Human Revolution.

Nichijew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 02:11AM by Nichijew.

Hi Nichijew, yes I have. I never could stand the "human revolution" and found it simplistically transparent, amateurish and just plain stupid. The lotus sutra, to me, is an important literary, historical, moral and ethical document, but a manufactured document from early human history, nonetheless. If its meaning and significance go beyond that for some people, then more power to them, but it doesn't go beyond that for me.