Nammy, the sg is most definitely a pseudo-buddhist-cult.

Corboy, outstanding posts, as usual. I've come to realize that probably just about everyone is in some way vulnerable and potentially susceptible to cult influences as some point in their lives. My experience was a bit different though. Having grown up in one, it was completely "normal" for me; it took getting out and looking back in from the outside for me to come to that realization (as well as reading this mb).

Redrose, welcome. I can also relate to much of what you are saying. Having grown up in the practice I could also see the schizophrenic meltdown that the organization/cult went through with the priesthood break. IMO, it only exposed an ugliness that was always lurking beneath, like lifting a rock and having the ants madly scurrying around in chaos biting people. Another thing that your post got me thinking about: whenever I've relocated (college), in the beginning, I made the mistake of reconnecting with the local membership (it was always done FOR me, not out of my own desire). Without exception, I've regretted letting them do it every single time. As discussed elsewhere in this long thread, anything they know about you gets passed around and shared, including of course plans to leave and where you are going, etc.. I quickly wised up and only then started to enjoy true peace and happiness by banishing it all out of my life. There is no better or perfect chance to do so than with a relocation opportunity. (PS - On that note, I've, unfortunately, found that whacked out members are basically the same, everywhere.)

I think Hitch, that when you move to a new area you are looking for that "common ground" and community. And for a lot of people the SGI fits that. Practicing for 27 years in one area was nice but it was also like a little "Peyton Place" with all it's own drama. I'll be moving again in the future and I'm not sure if Iwant to jump into the SGI. This is like leaving a bad marriage. It's not easy, we tell abused people to leave the relatinship and we don't understand when they don't do right away. I'm just fed up with the mindset that this is the only true buddhism - it sounds like a bunch evangelical christians! I don't want to regret the last 37 years of SGI buddhism. I learned alot in the beginning, now I'm learning nothing. There's no talk of mindfulness or cause and effect, it's all M/D.

I never ever saw Ikeda as a great leader or writer. So I have to ask myself what was the attraction to this form of buddhism and why did I allow myself to get sucked into this for so long. The crazy street shakabuku!!! I remember early in my practice - 1975-76 - going with some YMD to do shakabuku and this one guy would lean out the car window and cuss and scream at people if they did't want to go to a meeting. This guy was the "YMD" leader and married to big WD leader. I was shocked, but why did I continue. I consider myself to be a fairly grounded person with a good job, I've raised 2 incredible kids who I consider to be fine human beings. I have a great relationship with my family, husband and friends, and I love fashion, sewing and hiking with my buds. So why did I allow myself to be apart of some of the wackiness? I don't have an answer yet, but I'm workin on it. Man, it's hard walking past the neighborhood bar and not going in.

Hitch, so true about “whacked out members are basically the same, everywhere.” Several pages back you posted a Youtube link of a female member giving an experience. When I started watching it, I could’ve sworn I personally knew that person. I quickly realized that it was her presentation, mannerisms and use of certain words that I was so familiar with. BTW, I didn’t make it to the end of that video. It brought back too many memories of sitting through meetings and hoping that 8:30pm would arrive sooner.

Redrose, I was a kid when I started getting dragged along for many a street shakubuku campaign. I still remember some of those earliest ones at the local university area, where all I wanted to go do was hide under a bush. Later on, when I was older and they were doing it in the downtown (i.e. rougher) areas, I remember how uneasy I was at their stupidity of doing it under such dangerous circumstances (random shady characters off the street or borderline homeless people when they were really desperate for those "gohonzon numbers"). Utter insanity now as I look back (and just like you, as were many of our commutes to long distant meetings on dangerous and busy freeways, going down in evening rush hour traffic and returning late, late at night with all the drunks on the road). I can definitely relate to some of the things you've mentioned.

SGBye, yep, you're exactly like me! 8:30 p.m., that magic number to freedom - I know EXACTLY what you are talking about!! And to be honest, I couldn't watch all of that youtube clip the very first time I came across it either; I had to walk away from it for a few days before I watched the whole thing before posting it. Again, I can relate to all those same feelings you're describing. It was the same way with those "Interfaith" clips I posted a while back. The YMD's way of talking, right down to his facial expressions, mannerisms and gesturing. I'm SOOOOOO familiar with all of that stuff and it kind of makes me sick to my stomach to even see it all again. Absolutely nothing has changed, it's all familiar rehash.

It's amazing how we all experience similar emotions, discomfort and even have some of the same memories regarding all of this traumatic stuff.

I forgot to add -

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redrose
I never ever saw Ikeda as a great leader or writer.

One of my first experiences with the obsession with Ikeda's lame writing was back in the early 80's when they were pushing REALLY HARD for the ymd to memorize the poem "To My Young American Friends." I never did, simply because I couldn't stand the thing. I never understood how others could get up at meetings and recite such drivel from memory ("YOU! YOUTH! OOOOHHHH YOUTH!!") with tears flowing down their faces. I remember thinking that it was all way over the top and cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Nope, I was never a fan of any of his works. I think the guy's an insecure pretentious hack and the people fawning over it are not in their right minds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2012 07:47PM by Hitch.

The other day, I was leaning over to get a newspaper. Someone came right up behind me and I got spooked. Definite invasion of space.

The poor lady was doing outreach for a church. I was so spooked that I screamed "NO!"
--and then felt awful when I saw they were a group and a four year old girl was with them.

What does it do to little kids (and older kids?) when they are forced to go along on these outreach missions and hear people saying no to their parents - politely and not so politely?

It has to hurt a little kid to see this happening. And reinforces that its a Big Bad World outside the group.

Nichijew's experience leaving SGI with his wife at a very critical juncture in their lives speaks volumes. They continued to chant, and their prayers were answered in a life-and-death situation. Plus, the huge medical bills were taken care of.

To the SGI Frame, how could this be?? Dr. and Mrs. Rogow LEFT. They chant Namu-Myoho-Rengo-Kyo! This equals hellacious slander! NO benefits for you!

Well, there you go.

I've seen time and time again peoples' sincere prayers answered. They are not SGI Buddhists. Most of them never heard of SGI. They are good people who always try to do the right thing. And a lot of them are---Happy!

SGI uses the Fear Frame to keep the peeps in line. Your benefits will dry up and blow away. You will be sucked up in a nasty vortex where you'll stay for the rest of this life, not to mention future ones.

Nichiren talked about actual proof. Yes, he was driving his beliefs. But people every day find that with their particular prayers. They have their own actual proof.

No wonder so many leaders get nuts. They are towing to the Fear Frame and the approval of their Mentor. Plus they want and need that happiness. It's a truth for us all, and SGI is not doing anything that fire-and-brimstone Fundamentalists don't do. Fear.

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Hitch
I forgot to add -

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redrose
I never ever saw Ikeda as a great leader or writer.

One of my first experiences with the obsession with Ikeda's lame writing was back in the early 80's when they were pushing REALLY HARD for the ymd to memorize the poem "To My Young American Friends." I never did, simply because I couldn't stand the thing. I never understood how others could get up at meetings and recite such drivel from memory ("YOU! YOUTH! OOOOHHHH YOUTH!!") with tears flowing down their faces. I remember thinking that it was all way over the top and cuckoo for cocoa puffs. Nope, I was never a fan of any of his works. I think the guy's an insecure pretentious hack and the people fawning over it are not in their right minds.

I tried to memorize it too at the insistance of David Kasahara. The only one of my friends and fellow YMDs who succeeded was propped up at more than several meetings to recite it, to the rousing cheers and applause of the brainwashed Ikeda groupies. Funny, he is the least happy and successful of all my friends who I knew growing up. He actually thought and stated many times that he was going to be a senator. Why? Because he could memorize and recite a poem of the cultmeister? Craziest thing, he couldn't get above a C- on a college english course but he could memorize 200 lines of Ikeda's drivel word for word. I write this not to deprecate him. He could be loads of fun and is a source of some of my fondest memories. I write this to show the lie of the Soka Gakkai which promises its members that all their desires will be fulfilled if only they embrace the onenness of mentor and disciple. Certainly, no one I know embraced Ikeda more than he, and not one of his great wishes has come to fruition.

buku



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 02:24AM by Nichijew.

Embrace the oneness of mentor and disciple??? My God, what IS that concept? What does that concept mean? Someone help me out here!

I say it and say it, but to me the only reason this concept is being rammed into members' heads with no let-up is to cement Ikeda's Fabulous-ness and Greatness and The Only One Who Matters-ness.

Corboy, you have a way making me see things in a different light. I had never really thought about it much before.

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corboy
The other day, I was leaning over to get a newspaper. Someone came right up behind me and I got spooked. Definite invasion of space.

The poor lady was doing outreach for a church. I was so spooked that I screamed "NO!"
--and then felt awful when I saw they were a group and a four year old girl was with them.

What does it do to little kids (and older kids?) when they are forced to go along on these outreach missions and hear people saying no to their parents - politely and not so politely?

It has to hurt a little kid to see this happening. And reinforces that its a Big Bad World outside the group.

From early on, I thought "why are they doing this?" and didn't understand it at all. As I got older, that changed to, "these people are nuts." It never really made me warm up any more to the group, because I was always kind of embarrassed about it all (being a weird buddha-head).

Not sure how it was with other so-called "fortune babies", but I only ever really practiced to keep the affections of my parent(s), it was what I was told to do, I had no choice but to do so and I just didn't want to cause any problems. As a credulous youth, I bought into it for a brief, but intense time period culminating around early high school age. The older I got, the less credulous I became and it all slowly began tapering off. That period was a time of great turmoil for me. I viewed it as a fight for the right of independent thought and my sanity. Another interesting thing that I noticed was that, even when I was breaking my a** and doing ALL the activities that were expected of me, it was never enough for both the parent and the organization - they always wanted more & more AND MORE. I just reached a point were I said enough was enough. I realized it would be never be enough for them and began to step back. I just couldn't keep up the appeasement.

Here's another funny thing that ex-members will know: even once you've left, you're never really "out" in their warped minds - you are merely a "sleeping member" who shall one day reawaken to your mission, your path, and find your way back (especially if they never give up, chant abundant daimoku for you and keep that connection, basically forever). If you are viewed as a hopeless case, without even a remote possibility of return, then you might be labelled as "taiten." But, I've also seen many a taiten member return, leave, return, leave, etc., so they never really ever give up and always want you back, too.