Cloudwatcher:
"It makes me sick to think that LWF would do that so they can get every last cent. Let them all go; release them to have some kind of life in this world before their final exit. They have given enough; let them live their lives for crying out loud.

Hargrave you have the power to end this madness for them. Do the right thing,please. Not that you care about the right thing. But maybe you can just do it anyway; you have benefited handsomely from their sacrifice. Just do it."

The fact that this discussion of ours has had over 200,000 views suggests to me that at least some of the views are from people still suffering in TLWF. I wish I could believe that there is something within Hargrave that would eventually to the right thing and actually act from a place of empathy--but I am jaded by his long history of operating in a cut-throat manner to protect his own, pathetic interests. So I am not hopeful. I think people will have to make an exit and fend for themselves, without any support from leadership, just as it's always been. They have us, the people here that actually give a damn about their situation...given that most of us have been afflicted by it...to help guide them.

kBOY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BACKROOM DEALS: More Curious Doings Behind
> Closed Doors
>
> As CHANGEDAGAIN posted back in August 21,
> 2014 regarding Hargrave Family Ministries, this
> was established before JRS even exited the scene,
> bringing into question either his state of mind
> due to illness, directives he might have given, or
> something simply done behind his back. I will
> attach documenting evidence of this fact, which
> attests to developments which could have been
> planned well in advance, as in dissolving certain
> marriages in order to establish the new regime
> following his departure.
>
> [drive.google.com]
> WVCMWs2c3M/view?usp=sharing

What did Hargrave Family Ministries consist of in '82? Was it just Gary? Was it created in anticipation of John dying and him hooking up with Marilyn?
What was (is) it's purpose?
BTW, if I die in a mysterious accident (such as while gardening), please consider the possibility that...
I don't want to go there. Disregard the prior sentence.

As duly noted, it's hard for a leopard to change it's spots. There has never been any indication on the part of the leadership to admit fault, provide restitution, or change their m/o. Nobody should be holding their breath regarding any mass exodus short of some 'wikileaks-like' revelation that blows the lid off of all the shenanigans that have taken place for decades.

We signed up as the result of an individual decision, and made an exit decision accordingly. This is what each must face based on the values they hold dear.

As with all things on this level, CAVEAT EMPTOR.

I have my opinion of how Hargrave knew that it would be a "family" thing. I can't post this on a public forum, but I will tell anyone that wants to know in PM.

I will say that I am pretty sure that Gary and Marilyn anticipated the death of John Robert Stevens, in fact, I think they anticipated it like a kid would anticipate Christmas.



changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kBOY Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BACKROOM DEALS: More Curious Doings Behind
> > Closed Doors
> >
> > As CHANGEDAGAIN posted back in August
> 21,
> > 2014 regarding Hargrave Family Ministries, this
> > was established before JRS even exited the
> scene,
> > bringing into question either his state of mind
> > due to illness, directives he might have given,
> or
> > something simply done behind his back. I will
> > attach documenting evidence of this fact, which
> > attests to developments which could have been
> > planned well in advance, as in dissolving
> certain
> > marriages in order to establish the new regime
> > following his departure.
> >
> >
> [drive.google.com]
>
> > WVCMWs2c3M/view?usp=sharing
>
> What did Hargrave Family Ministries consist of in
> '82? Was it just Gary? Was it created in
> anticipation of John dying and him hooking up with
> Marilyn?
> What was (is) it's purpose?
> BTW, if I die in a mysterious accident (such as
> while gardening), please consider the possibility
> that...
> I don't want to go there. Disregard the prior
> sentence.

There may not be any justice in this world for the leaders of Living Word Fellowship, Hargrave may well drain every cent of those that are still in it, and as far as this life, get away with it. But he is going to face a judgement that he may not anticipate, and Marilyn too. That is something they are not going to talk their way out of.

Cloudwatcher,

I applaud you for speaking out about the potential for elder financial abuse. It should be a huge red flag and seniors need to be educated that they need to have emergency funds set aside for health issues as Medicare is not all it's cracked up to be. Many think Medicare will cover nursing home costs; it does not. Some unscrupulous churches these days go even beyond tithes and help set up financial products for their seniors such as annuities and trusts in hopes of fleecing seniors assets after they pass. Keep speaking out and expressing yourself. You are among those who feel the same way as you do.

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cloudwatcher,
>
> I applaud you for speaking out about the potential
> for elder financial abuse. It should be a huge red
> flag and seniors need to be educated that they
> need to have emergency funds set aside for health
> issues as Medicare is not all it's cracked up to
> be. Many think Medicare will cover nursing home
> costs; it does not. Some unscrupulous churches
> these days go even beyond tithes and help set up
> financial products for their seniors such as
> annuities and trusts in hopes of fleecing seniors
> assets after they pass. Keep speaking out and
> expressing yourself. You are among those who feel
> the same way as you do.

I say hit this hard and make it ongoing. Elder abuse. I don't know what they are offering or directing exactly, but I do know that it is nefarious any way you cut the cake. It is none of their damn business to interfere.

If someone has been smart enough to prepare for retirement, they certainly don't need direction from those who will be the beneficiaries; ala jobs, etc.

This is really sick and I think there may be organizations who track this stuff. Put the eye of the public on this, It needs public scrutiny. Newspapers, blogs, magazines, television, podcasts. I have no doubt it will be of interest to someone who can at least expose it. Maybe even Doctor Phil.

Hargrave should be ashamed of himself with his $$$$ and his royal life. He is greedy and is a narcissist and does not care in the least for anyone or their pain. He would rather keep the delusion going as if something actually were going or is happenening. I hope he steps on himself. He is too arrogant to think he ever will. So, just waitin' for it.

MONEY, SEX, AND POWER. ABSOLUTE POWER TO BOOT. WHERE THERE IS SMOKE THERE IS FIRE. HOW DEEP AND DESPERATELY WICKED ONE CAN BE UNBEKNOWNST TO THE RANK AND FILE.

I don't think alot of the conspiracy theories surrounding John's death. I base this on the following translation of Jer17:9: The heart is complex (from the idea of deceptively unknowable) and fragile (the concept of being extremely vulnerable to life-threatening conditions), who can know it?" For the ways of man flow from this complex and fragile heart as Jesus taught.

No one can know what was in the heart of John or G&M back then and John couldn't know what was in the hearts of his successors. Given the complexity and fragility of the heart, who can know what will flow out of it in times of crisis. Back then, I think G&M loved John and 100% believed in John's vision and they loved those who loved John. But upon John's death I suspect many in the LW lacked a kind of emotional intelligence to deal with the loss by applying God's message of love. I have repeatedly lacked emotional intelligence and the things that have come out of my heart in crisis were unknowable and shocking to me. So this is what I think I know....that Christians become out of touch with God's message of love all the time...I mean all the time. We are told to guard our hearts, but we don't. I think this happens to some ministries we hear about on the news. They start out gung ho for Jesus and eventually many lose touch with God's message of love. JRS once had a captive audience and a movement of followers that was growing by leaps and bounds but the focus of the movement became creating an army of hardcore god wannabes; it was not the Gospel of love and for that reason I think possibly God shut it down and the LW never continued to grow leaps and bounds.

So sorry, here's a correction to an omission from my previous post: But upon John's death I suspect that many in the LW lacked a kind of emotional intelligence to deal with the loss and feelings of anger and rage by applying God's message of love.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2016 04:39PM by lily rose.

I had an unexpected memory the other day, probably triggered by recent posts.

I am also one who believes that JRS was a person who genuinely believed what he was advocating, that he was not just disseminating a bunch of hokum for the sake of gaining tithes, based on a brief conversation I had with him after a service at the valley church. It was one of those rare occasions that he was walking alone, not followed by the usual entourage.

I told him I had a great fascination with the occult. (Occult just means "hidden" by the way). I was saying that I had been reading quite a bit about various this's and that's in the hidden realm, and it seemed to me that if we were going to assign all this power to "the enemy" (spiritual warfare and all), that we ought to know as much about our enemy as we could, and that I also found everything I was learning of great interest. I figured he would probably schedule me for a probe session to cast out demons or ban me from services or some such thing.

Instead, to my surprise, he looked at me with a very serious expression and told me he shared my deep interest and had been engaged in reading the same things for years. He encouraged me to keep reading, but said he didn't think it would be a very good idea to share my insights with anyone because it would most likely just be something that would rile people up, and he didn't want to cause any of the sheep to stumble.

Who knows, maybe he was indeed just selling snake oil all those years, but his comments didn't seem in line with someone who was a fraud. I think he was a true believer in what he was delivering from the pulpit.

Downside; it is not a healthy mindset to wander through this life waiting for a catastrophic, biblical type event to change the world as we know it. It deprives one of living a daily reality and enjoying the present. After all, this moment is all we get. Better not to spend a lifetime only waiting, when that waiting deprives us of life's joys.