changedagain wrote: A possible answer to the insecurity problem many struggle with while in TLWF: "You’ll worry less about What 'Mom and Dad'
think of you When you realize how seldom they do."

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Such a true statement, especially when considering how their natural humanity/self-preservation/business success is their main focus and concern. The little cogs in the business wheel are always neglected/expendable in such typical, human, low level operations.

The True Heavenly Creator can think about each and every aspect of the creation all at once; a very comforting thought to think/dream/philosophy about.

Changed again good advice!

On the eve of the arrest of Jesus, I think about the 12 disciples arguing about who would be the greatest. They had been with Jesus for years and they still didn't get it.....that the kingdom of God is not about striving for popularity, status, or prestige. That's not God's way. And Jesus had to educate them about what it meant to serve and not seek popularity or prestige.

And in the Walk we didn't get it. The Walk cult didn't have popularity contests where by people gained prestige like in high school based on jocks and homecoming queens. You wanted to be somebody in the Walk, in the mid 70's the Walk popularity contests became about who was the loudest cheerleader for JRS, who interceded loudest for judgment of the nephs, who had the prophetic anointing, who road in the van, who was close to JRS, who was in the inner circle. However, if you weren't loud or if you were insecure about if you fit in to this competition, sometime around the early 80's I think LW angst became the new normal.


Well, maybe Edward Norton's character got it (love this quote from the movie Birdman), "Popularity is the slutty little cousin of prestige." Jesus couldn't have said it any better.

Plz note typo in above post: change road in van to rode in van.

Changedagain mentioned celebrating June 4th as the time Satan was brought down by John’s death - as taught by G&M. I wonder why so significant an event is missing from the “What We Believe” section of TLWF website. It seems rather obvious the rest of Christianity should also know about this monumental teaching - if it is actually true. I remember trying to sort through why there was still all this spiritual warfare - even with Satan out of the picture. Of course the pat answer was that all his underlings were still running around razing havoc.

I’ve since come to realize that much of the “spiritual warfare” we experienced was the consequence of dabbling in the spirit realm using occult techniques that were white-washed for the School of the Prophets. We opened doors that were never meant to be opened and paid the price. Obedience to Jesus’ commands is light years ahead of effectively dealing with the Enemy as opposed to pretending you can develop your spiritual faculties to be some sort of son of god super hero that causes the demons to tremble. In the first century church, they burned their occult books instead of making a library of them - as John did.

I think the scriptures are very clear that it is Jesus – not John’s death – that brings down Satan. Here are a couple: 8 When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 about sin, because people do not believe in me;10 about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. John 16:8-11 (NIV) 31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. John 12:31 (NIV)

In every cult it seems men try to sneak in between God and man and redirect submission, worship, finances etc. meant for God to themselves. Jesus calls them thieves and robbers. One of the few times you really see Jesus upset is with the moneychangers at the synagogue doing exactly this. The scriptures teach that there is one mediator between God and man and that is Christ Jesus. When the “word” of John breaking into resurrection life and taking all who were obedient to him with him didn’t happen, and he died, I think saying he had brought down Satan was just a devious way of maintaining control that could not be verified – somehow giving his death a positive spin. Hopefully nobody would think for themselves or examine the scriptures – and for the most part, that happened.

Absolutely, Larry I agree that John bringing down Satan should be included in the "What We Believe" section of TLWF website and also included with those well known Marvel Comics characters Captain America, Iron Man and X-Men etc.

I happened to hear that "John took Satan down" teaching in person. I remember thinking how absolutely ridiculous it sounded to me. It was a real wake up call and a big, bitter pill I could never fully swallow. Talk about hubris !!!

I wrote a letter to Apco questioning not only John’s death bringing down Satan but also the failed prophesies of the 1980’s that we did all the survival preparation for, the kingdom dawning in 1979 from John’s vision into the future as well as the interpretations of the Great Pyramid, Jesus’ provision on the cross needing a Door Opener Apostle before it could actually work, “words from God” directing minute details of people lives yet the seeming lack of direction on the major issues facing the Body, the mine in Nevada and camp in Brazil that cost many their life savings – etc. etc.. The response I received was that I was not allowed to speak in services for more than a year. I still question every one of those areas to this day – I just learned to keep my mouth shut while I was still in TLWF.

In the Old Testament, prophets were given one miss and then they rocked them to sleep. It was a big deal to say this is a word from God, expecting explicit obedience, if it really was not true. I was on both sides of receiving and giving “words from God”. In hindsight, having a good feeling about something does not make it a word from God. There are many groups besides TLWF dabbling in prophetic (pathetic) words without any accountability for mistakes. They want all the control over others and none of the responsibility for mistakes. TLWF will fess up to mistakes a few years down the road, but if you tried to say a “false shepherd” was false at the time, you were shown the door. After all, if you just submit, God will cause it all to work out for your good. The sad thing is the hundreds of lives that were trashed and discarded thinking that lie was actually true. Spiritual abuse is deadly, and it can leave wounds that last a lifetime without God's healing.

I think it is worth pointing out that for thousands of years the big God in the sky has been and is well aware of the spiritual abuse and lies.

From the Prophet Jeremiah 14:14:

Then the Lord said to me, "The prophets are prophesying falsehood in my name. I have neither sent them nor commanded them nor spoken to them; they are prophesying to you a false vision, divination, futility, and the deception of their own minds."

And when Jesus was on the earth he cautioned those who engage in spiritual abuse and lies (MT 18:6) that it is better for a man to lose his life in a horrible way by drowning in the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than to destroy the souls of the little ones who are naïve and lowly.

Jesus also warned about false prophets and the NT tells believers to test the spirits of men and use the scriptures as a standard to compare if what is being spoken to you by self proclaimed prophets and apostles is of the Lord or the deception of the self proclaimed prophets own mind.

Disillusionment and unbelief are some of the consequences of spiritual abuse. Today, one of my lessons learned from having been in a cult is how to recognize the red flags of spiritual abuse such as the silencing of those in the congregation who test the spirits and the prophesies and the silencing of those dare to compare the words spoken by self proclaimed prophets and apostles with the scriptures. If questioning your pastor's or elder's preaching, prophesies, or visions is disallowed, in my humble opinion most likely it is a deception of the pastor's/elder's own mind.

I really like the above posts. There was a time when I was in awe of God. There seemed to be no end to all the liberation, freedom and blessing. BUT the dominating lying false prophets (Jeremiah 14:14 quoted above) certainly destroyed the heavenly spiritual flow for many of us in the “Walk” -------knowingly or unknowingly is the question.

A false prophet doesn’t know that he/she is false. Their sincerity remains heartfelt even though it is full of falsehoods and wrong assumptions. Some have been taught falsehoods from the time they were babies, never escaping their tiny interpretational island or willing to incorporate all the teachings of Jesus, especially
Matthew 23:8-12 (Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.......).

Crazy world, isn’t it ? --------Whole segments of people walking under “Clouds of Deception” generation after generation.

larry bobo Wrote:
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> The response I received was that I was not allowed to speak in
> services for more than a year. I still question
> every one of those areas to this day – I just
> learned to keep my mouth shut while I was still in
> TLWF.

I had a somewhat similar experience, Larry...demoted from a shepherd to a set-aside elder, ordered to turn pages for the organist or pianist during church services for a year, and consistently do 'volunteer' labor maintaining a shepherd's home. The message was driven home: don't ever question authority, or be prepared to face the consequences.

p.s. As an aside, in case anyone is wondering, I never EVER use wire hangers!!