So many examples of waiting on the Lord for endless hours and ending up without a revelation of something I was supposed to have a revelation about. One notable example, in the late 70's, was the identity of the nephilim. God refused to talk to me about it--perhaps because of my spiritual immaturity ("I have so many things to tell you, but you cannot bear them now"). It took a special service, called by Gary, to discover the nephilim was actually John's estranged wife (Martha).

changedagain,
Thanks for sharing the email your friend sent to you. The anger issues are a side of JRS and G&M that are seldom discussed. While in TLWF, I took the wannabe boot camp treatment in stride, being told it was the work of the cross and that I was actually being loved. However, Jesus said, “But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ’Raca’, is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.” I’ve experienced one-on-one blasts of anger from Gary, Rick, Rich, and numerous times from Pete in Palmer Lake, all while serving in good graces – not because I’d done something wrong - just because it was the way they related behind the scenes and out of the spotlight. I think it was considered a mark of maturity if you could handle the blast and the language when in truth it was an indication that everyone involved was unhealthy. I certainly have no respect for any of them now – they certainly did not have the interest of others in mind unless they could use them for personal purposes. Actually, I feel a little sad for them – it must be a horrible way to live.

There’s a saying that probably expresses the feeling many now have of TLWF leadership: “Mean people don’t bother me a bit. Mean people who disguise themselves as nice people bother me a whole lot.” The wolves in sheep’s clothing have been around a long time. In hindsight, TLWF was so dysfunctional and toxic with rampant alcohol abuse just to cope. The resulting spiritual abuse only wounded the people, not produced maturity. You accepted it because you had been deceived into thinking it was God. Being around healthy men and women is sure a contrast to TLWF. Most would probably chuckle (or groan) if you told them you had replaced God’s name with Marilyn’s name in worship songs - it would be so far out in left field they could not even imagine somebody could get that far off track. Rick’s affair/marriage track record (Is it 4 now?) would be as equally sad – no matter what kind of lipstick you put on it. He certainly would not be in leadership in a healthy church – no matter who his mom claimed to be.

There is no power in TLWF except what you relinquish to them. All the “prophetic” (pathetic would be a better word) words of judgement produced nothing, yet people like myself and others were fearful to leave while under the illusion the leadership possessed some mystical power. It's laughable now. John died and Martha lived - even after all that screaming and yelling. What you send out, comes back – that’s why you don’t call down fire on your enemies. “Like a fluttering sparrow or a darting swallow, an undeserved curse does not come to rest.” (Pro. 26:2) That principle would be helpful for Marilyn’s physical condition right now, instead of blaming others who choose not to worship her. A little altered consciousness and we assumed we were moving in the spirit realm affecting changes in the earth for God. Actually, we were dabbling in stuff God warned us not to get involved in. We were never able to put two and two together to notice that while we were “ruling” world financial markets, we were unable to balance our personal checkbooks – and our resources and allegiance were being siphoned off from God to the leadership, as in any cult.

changedagain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So many examples of waiting on the Lord for
> endless hours and ending up without a revelation
> of something I was supposed to have a revelation
> about. One notable example, in the late 70's, was
> the identity of the nephilim. God refused to talk
> to me about it--perhaps because of my spiritual
> immaturity ("I have so many things to tell you,
> but you cannot bear them now"). It took a special
> service, called by Gary, to discover the nephilim
> was actually John's estranged wife (Martha).


I too remember asking God to reveal the nephilim to me. Some nights later,it was revealed to me in a dream that the nephilim was Burt Reynolds the movie star. I think God was telling me get over yourself; I've revealed all you need to know in the Bible.

I find it shameless the LW tells the congregation to get a revelation of someone who self proclaims to be god. It is so cultish and such a crock. If only TLWF leaders would just be honest and admit to the congregation that we are preaching a different Christ (us).

I still remember the words JRS spoke to M during their wedding, "You are beautiful and you are beautiful on the inside too." Knowing how the congregation hung on to every word that came out of the mouth of JRS, I suspect JRS was trying to validate M as something more than a trophy wife. Her subsequent behavior, as noted in the email sent to changedagain, certainly contradicts JRS's perception about her.

Wow! And to think all these years, I felt that I was the only one who felt this way. Thank you LB, CA and Lilly.

Larry bobo wrote: “There is no power in TLWF except what you relinquish to them. All the “prophetic” (pathetic would be a better word) words of judgement produced nothing, yet people like myself and others were fearful to leave while under the illusion the leadership possessed some mystical power. It's laughable now.”

-----------------

That FEAR ran extremely deep, beyond what any psychologist, counselor or professional person would ever understand. I was unable to throw off the “mystical power” on my own even through scripture reading. It’s baffling. The truth presented as factual evidence on this forum, and lots of it in almost an overwhelming way from so many different angles, is sinking TLWF ship so to speak. My God, it’s like watching a monster go down into the depths from a barrage of torpedoes, bombs and explosions.

I’ve been asked if I would explain why I view TLWF as a cult. It starts with the isolation from other parts of the Body. “We are the only true church and everyone else is Babylon” does not reflect the oneness that Jesus prayed for. The members of the Body are found wherever there is a new creation in Christ, and that can be in or out of man-made systems or denominations. The “We’ll get along just fine as soon as you realize I am God” is a picture of Satan, not Jesus. That’s a dictatorship, not a relationship and healthy Christians don’t relate that way. The feigned concern that TLWF will morph into something God did not intend if it connects with others parts of the Body is silly. The hand only has value as it is connected to the rest of the body – not isolated from it. A hand will die if it is cut off, not preserve its individuality. The real reason for isolation is to control the members. They will lose them if they find out about the true freedom that is in Christ.

The next thing that happens is the formation of new teaching that distorts God’s commands. With TLWF you could start with “You shall have no other gods before Me.” A mockery is made of “God in the sky” and “Christ in the flesh” begins to take His place. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.” How many of us heard “Jesus f…ing” Christ from the pulpit and never even batted an eye our conscious was so seared. “Honor your father and mother.” We cut off family ties and G&M became mom and dad – one of the most dishonoring things we could possibly do to our natural parents. I didn’t realize how evil it was until the local “shepherd” in Palmer Lake approached my kids about becoming their father since I was incapable of the role after leaving the church. Fortunately, their response was to also leave because it was so weird to them.

Many have commented on the adultery/divorce that has run rampant in the leadership of TLWF to the very top of the organization. One thing I think needs to be addressed is not the weakness of men but the changing of scripture to tolerate the weakness of men. If one spouse gets out of Marilyn’s good graces, that is not a scriptural basis for divorce. The “unequal yoke” teaching has been taken completely out of Biblical context and is no excuse. It has been a problem since John and Martha and Gary and Donna – both left their wives for Marilyn under the guise of seeking first the kingdom – it’s just that it’s a personal kingdom and not the kingdom of God. Of course there is healing and restoration with repentance, but you don’t change the commands and say there is no need for repentance now – or worse yet, claim it’s the pathway to God. You’ve got your gods mixed up. The true God will strengthen marriage relationships, not destroy them.

Another command that comes to mind is “You shall not bear false witness.” There is a conscious deliberate attempt by the leadership to mislead the public about TLWF. I would personally have far more respect for them if they would simply say their goal was to get people connected and submitted to Marilyn and be honest about it. If people want to do that, they are certainly free to do it – just don’t lie about your real intentions. Instead, they pretend they are a part of Christianity that they are not and try to lure unsuspecting people into their web of deceit. “You must have a revelation before we can share these ‘deeper truths’” is not an excuse to bait and switch. It should be a red flag that sermons have to be sanitized before being released to the public, if they ever are. It’s a lot more involved than simply editing out people’s names as is often stated. Most of the rest of Christianity has their sermons available online for anyone to view because they have nothing to hide. The last thing I heard from TLWF online was so lifeless and lost in fantasyland it really was not going to do anybody any good anyway – except the leadership, who was pretending to have deep truths that nobody else has. In fairness, maybe that will all change after this next “new level”.

For those wanting healing from the wounds of TLWF, I would simply go back to the words of Jesus and put them into practice. It’s not what you study, but what you act on that brings healing. God’s word works 100% of the time – something the teachings of TLWF do not. How is that “Obey Marilyn and resurrection life is yours” working for you – I suspect about as well as it worked for John. As Jesus said at the end of his Sermon on the Mount in The Message version: “Don’t look for shorts to God. The market is flooded with surefire, easygoing formulas for a successful life that can be practiced in your spare time. Don’t fall for that stuff, even though crowds of people do. The way to life – to God – is vigorous and requires total attention. Be wary of false preachers who smile a lot, dripping with practiced sincerity. Chances are they are out to rip you off some way or other. Don’t be impressed with charisma; look for character. Who preachers are is the main thing, not what they say. A genuine leader will never exploit your emotions or your pocketbook. These diseased trees with their bad apples are going to be chopped down and burned.”

FCSLC said, "That FEAR ran extremely deep, beyond what any psychologist, counselor or professional person would ever understand. I was unable to throw off the “mystical power” on my own even through scripture reading. It’s baffling. The truth presented as factual evidence on this forum, and lots of it in almost an overwhelming way from so many different angles, is sinking TLWF ship so to speak. My God, it’s like watching a monster go down into the depths from a barrage of torpedoes, bombs and explosions."

I would suspect the monster you are watching go down into the depths is more on the inside of us than actually TLWF - although that certainly may follow. It's an awesome thing to watch God set His people free when nothing else has been able to do it. It really gives us something to worship Him about. His love casts out all fear and then we find ourselves experiencing the true freedom of the sons of God - something TLWF only fantasized about while living under such oppression because they chose to alter Jesus'commands to serve themselves.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCSLC said, "That FEAR ran extremely deep, beyond
> what any psychologist, counselor or professional
> person would ever understand. I was unable to
> throw off the “mystical power” on my own even
> through scripture reading. It’s baffling.


FCSLC are you thinking that maybe there had been a little sorcery going on, leaving you with something like a big nuisance or worse that you can't shake off?

In the Gospels, you come away noticing that Jesus spent so much time delivering people from unclean spirits. In the story of the Canaanite Woman (Matt 18:22) we learn that the daughter needs deliverance. One commentator I read observed that the Canaanites were known for idolatry and demon worship of Baal which probably accounted for the daughter picking up an unclean spirit.

I don't know if there was sorcery going on in the LW but JRS by admission did dabble in some occult things and I too have wondered if maybe we were participants in some of that dabbling as it relates to death prayers and other weirdness. I don't know exactly what the consequences of any dabbling would be but I agree with Larry that God can set us free.

Because you mentioned scripture reading as maybe not working for you, I found the following resource helpful and maybe it will clear the air for you: www.gty.org/resourses/sermons/42-57/jesus-authority-over-demons or goggle:Jesus' Authority over Demons Grace to You.

In suggesting the article, I am in no way saying that those of us who experienced the LW weirdness have demons; rather, the article points out the power of the scriptures in a way I previously didn't realize. Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks Larry BoBO for taking the time to share you insights on cults. I can't understand why TLWF didn't make you a pastor (I know, you're too nice); I feel like I went to church today.

Thank you lily rose. I read the sermon by John F. MacArthur about demons. I liked it. His observations are very informative and insightful without a lot of speculative nonsense. I learned a better perspective from his studies also. It’s always refreshing when someone preaches as a mere mortal just trying to understand clearly instead of declaring, “God showed me this or this is an infallible word from God.”

Getting back to the monster residing more within than without (I agree with larry bobo about this) I can describe the problem. When reading the scriptures, which I love, the truth is there. I know that Jesus comes to us by the Holy Spirit. It’s wonderful. The peace, comfort, and just letting go on our part ----- for Him to take over the battle and do all the worrying about life is keeping me from going totally gray.

In the midst of the above reality, I am plagued by imaginary scenes from the past of Bowman Littleton, John Miller, JRS, Ron Court and Tom Edvalson along with his wife all doing battle against the freedom we have in Jesus as described in the Bible. All the preaching about submission: Submit, submit, submit. You have no rights. You’re in rebellion to God Almighty if you don’t give your spirit over to the Divine Order which God has restored in the Church of the Living Word. Thousands of hours of preaching, tapes, This Weeks, manuals and the like over and over and over. (Out of respect for Bowman, who I really liked, I like to think that he got out of the Walk on his own accord)

I don’t think its demons. It’s a battle to reverse brainwashing. It’s a battle to read the Word without interference from past bonds and those forced, errant interpretations. I would like to initiate a redistribution of energy patterns in my own brain according to an entirely new paradigm. A paradigm with a different Jesus. A Jesus who is not dictatorial. It’s the humans who want divine order, God seems to like secret peace in the middle of chaos (at least for the present time). It pisses me off when so called ministers of God are so arrogant that they intrude upon a person’s personal relationship with God, or more to the point, so arrogant that they intrude upon God’s personal relationship with each one of us. Show some respect for God; worry about your own relationship.

I loved many of the people in the Walk, but I think I would have been better off not knowing about the Walk. I know, it’s debatable. Reading the scriptures without “The twisting lies of strict obedience to church authority” always haunting my spirit may be something I will never experience again. The more this cult falls apart, the more garbage that besmirches its character ----- the better. It all helps to erase and diminish what they preach/preached.

It’s better than it used to be. I didn’t pick up a Bible for nearly thirty years after leaving the church, but now I read it occasionally to post on this forum. I can draw a certain amount of victory from observing how former members of the Walk do their battle/discussions on this forum. That makes me somewhat of a leach, an anonymous leach.

P.S. I always feel ridiculous after posting a post because without a professional editor my posts always seem so disjointed. Sorry.