changedagain wrote: “From my 21 year experience, this 'walk with God' is founded on strict obedience to church authority. So these very same sincere, loving people--should they be instructed to do so--could immediately adapt a cold & distant attitude toward you. I've witnessed it countless times, and experienced it myself. The Living Word doctrine of "Christ in the Flesh"--which in practice means that the words of the leaders are emphasized over an individual's interpretation of scripture, permeates the culture.”

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Thank you again for such a clarifying post. You know, if I had only known beforehand what the “Walk” was really about, then I never would have kept attending.

Your words, “this 'walk with God' is founded on strict obedience to church authority” makes my skin crawl. It’s like something out of the dark ages, something many protestors, me thinks, have died fighting against.

Remember Nichol's book....before the Walk JRS experienced two congregations leaving him and walking away so Nichol's opined that JRS started his next church with self proclaimed authority and submission/control protocols that would ultimately trap people.

Thanks lily rose, good point to “never” forget. JRS’ trap snared a lot of teenagers. Teenagers who were looking for an anchor during the Vietnam War Era. None the less for wear, after all these years, I like the following statement made by Hindu Rishis in the Upanishads, “Neti, Neti” which translates as, “Not this, Not this.”

It’s a “Not this” to TLWF. It’s a “Not this” to strict obedience to church authority.

FCSLC wrote:

Quote

Thanks lily rose, good point to “never” forget. JRS’ trap snared a lot of teenagers. Teenagers who were looking for an anchor during the Vietnam War Era.

Would be interesting to find out how Stevens did outreach to the teenagers
during those years.

The psychedelic 'hippie' era is often romanticized today.

Many were convinced there was going to be a violent revolution -
and trained for it. Bombs went off. Patty Hearst was kidnapped.

Those were terrible years. Many young persons were desperate
for some orientation.

Some watched friends OD and die. Others went crazy.

Ideals were ground into the dirt.

Those were those years when domineering leaders, from Manson, to Rajneesh,
to David Berg (Children of God) were reaping a harvest.

I can PM a list of books to anyone interested in learning more about
the raw reality of those times.

Unapologetic Apologetic, are you still attending services at the Living Word? I have a question. Have you seen Gary or Marilyn lately? I hear they have not been to a service in many months.

One post that bothered me, and has stuck with me, on this forum a number of years ago from Lou Ann. She said Marilyn had told those at Shiloh who haven't changed would have to leave Shiloh. Lou Ann questioned what did that mean. Good question. I think it meant those who haven't been sanctified enough according to M's standards would have to leave.

JRS was looking for sanctified disciples too but JRS said he had faith for all men; whereas, it appears Marilyn did not. This still bothers me. I remember a post not too long ago from Paleface in which he said, "God knows we tried to change."

I don't think I have changed much. I am hardly close to sanctified and I am near the age where folks start to become weary. I believe but maybe I don't fit the definition of having changed according to Marilyn or even Jesus. Maybe I don't even fit Jesus's definition of a disciple but maybe Jesus is making intercession for me regarding this. I spent my life trying to distance myself from the negative effects the Walk had on me and I believe to some degree the thief robbed me. I am still stuck regarding some things.

After sorting out a few things, this is what I think now. Some folks have Teflon in the their DNA and the negative effects of the Walk probably slid off there backside and they were able to move on. On the other hand, the DNA of some folks is to internalize what happens to them and they haven't been as successful in shaking of the dust of the LW. The LW seems to have robbed and caused suffering for many and I hope Jesus continues to intercede for those damaged by the LW.

Lily wrote:
<Some folks have Teflon in the their DNA and the negative effects of the Walk probably slid off there backside and they were able to move on. On the other hand, the DNA of some folks is to internalize what happens to them and they haven't been as successful in shaking of the dust of the LW. The LW seems to have robbed and caused suffering for many and I hope Jesus continues to intercede for those damaged by the LW.>


I received this email six years ago from a former TLWF insider, and it's the first time I've shared it. It contains various observations & insights that are difficult to stomach:

• I haven't sorted out all my feelings on JRS. Loved the Word and his love for the people. He had a lot of problems with defensiveness, some probably the result of his conditionings and the battle he faced; some may have been from his own weaknesses and problems with extramarital affairs, the ill-fated silver mine, and the inability to get unentangled from all the intrigue that went along with them. For all of his public repenting, he never was able to repent of some of the big ticket items, maybe for fear of being destroyed.

• Right now the Living Word is one heck of a toxic, controlling culture.

• On 90% of the tapes from 1983 to 1998 Gary is pissed off. I think it led to numerous cases of striking the rock.
•G & M often, by their own account, spent their mornings in rage sessions, which then became the basis of their Word later in the day. In hindsight, maybe it's fair to assume that they just had anger management issues. I'm sure it was frustrating taking over the religious mess that was "the Walk", but gee whiz...

• The authority structure has been and will always be based on who provides the greatest lip service or financial benefit to the Lamp of Israel. Those who promote her are shepherd material. It's created cut-throat competition among the men to see who can claw their way into favor. Men who are assholes on a personal level can still have whole churches or continents turned over to them, not to mention any names.

• In the late 90s Marilyn was pissed off after it became apparent that John had had an affair with another church secretary instead of her in the early 70s. They turned that into a series of words on how John's real problem wasn't lust or drinking but disobedience -- in that he didn't give himself to Marilyn. Most of the "Word" was the result of situations like that.

• When they got wind of Rick's adultery, they turned that into a series of words on "what will it take to shake you out of your revelation?" Gary "prophetically" warned, "I'm telling you things will come up in the months ahead that could shake your whole confidence." Then they turned the entire Feast of Tabernacles into a forum to praise Rick & Maria for their openness while berating the religious sheep for being too self-righteous. Hey, everybody has two natures -- or is it three?

• Hell hath no fury like a Marilyn scorned. Every outburst though just lays the foundation for another revelation of what God is really like: insanely jealous, unemotional, angry if she sees you look at another woman when your focus is supposed to be on her, I mean Him. An easily offended despot who will banish you from her presence for violating her spirit. If you are not really digging any of these qualities of your Deity, your problem was that you just found God unacceptable.

I heard a current LW person say that we "blow outs" (that post on this forum) were never real disciples when we were with the LW. This person said that we were phoneys. And we were never really a part of it.

That must be how the current members see us and are able to marginalize what is being said here. See, we don't matter. We were never true believers. : )

My response to that is I can't recall one LW disciple/believer who took up

his cross daily, gave away all possessions to follow CHrist, laid down their

life for their brother, invited the hungry and starving to their feasts, etc.

Discipleship is 100 % commitment to the teachings of Jesus. We all fall short

including the LW.

Another common thing they will say is: "You never had a revelation of John" or "You never had a revelation of Marilyn"

I tried like crazy to get a "rev". Hours spent "waiting on the Lord" to no avail. I just never got it. At some point I decided there was only a revelation of God. The rest was just a carrot on a stick.