dbc,

I haven't had any luck in finding a free copy of the Richard Riss Thesis that you recommended.

Do you have any tips or leads?



Marilyn,

Yes, Molly's posts were a breath of fresh air, expressing her delight in finding this forum, "I finally found you."

I'd try writing him directly. He was very generous with me and sent me a copy (but this was years ago). I think I sent enough to cover photocopying and postage. He's at rriss@drew.edu

Or purchase directly at

[booksandjournals.brillonline.com]

FCSLC Wrote:

I for one, am not looking to find another Apostle
or authority running around on this earth. I
think the Holy Spirit and the Word found in the
Bible as well as this forum and internet studies
are doing a much better job when it comes to a
“Personal spirituality”. It’s working for
me, in a kind of “Do it yourself way”.


And Jan wrote (page 122) in part (paraphrase) that after the Walk she, as were others, were put off by organized religion.

While researching dbc's reference to Richard Riss and his thesis, I found an interesting article, "The Purpose of Revival," by Riss that references Christian writers who believe that God is judging organized religion and that today the Body of Christ is a group of people worldwide who truly trust in Jesus Christ. If you are interested in reading the article you can find it at [grmi.org] or grmi.org/Richard_Riss/purpose.html


saw enough,

I watched the Academy Awards and while I haven't seen any of the movies that received awards, I recognized the movie titles because of your brilliant post that was so true. You should post more.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2015 10:00AM by lily rose.

Thank you lily rose for your last post. I plan to investigate "The Purpose of Revival" by Richard Riss at [grmi.org] or grmi.org/Richard_Riss/purpose.html.

I was thinking today about your post on February 22, 2015 at 05:35AM which said in part: “While in Hawaii my sister's pastor started a bible study that was visited by some LW folks who asked the bible study group, "By whose authority have you started your bible study?”

-----------------------

We have a lot of that around here in Salt Lake City: “Power of the priesthood,” “By whose authority,” “We’re the only true restored church” “Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible is the only inspired version” -------- all designed to subvert the independent “Do it yourself” individual. The war is all about keeping the individual separated from God. Keeping the individual crippled, not empowered, more or less always a dependent, needing to pay someone else to provide the truth.

My son works in the plumbing business. He says, “If you want it screwed up, hire a professional.” I think this also applies to religion for the most part.

Anyway, after reading the posts on this forum my response to the “Authority mongers,” at least in my mind is, “Keep on touting your authority because you’re on the way to becoming a false Christ, an anti-Christ, that which the angels of God are going to burn."

Jesus said, “The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” It’s interesting to me how many leaders have sought to take the place of God, stealing what was meant for Him from sincere hearts – whether it be position, power or money. They offer what they cannot give to believers in exchange for personal benefits in this life. “Send me money and God will make you rich” is a common theme among the prosperity gospel advocates. In TLWF it was “Surrender your life and finances to me and I will give you resurrection life and you will rule the world”. Outside the bubble of deception of TLWF, the prosperity guys have a far greater chance of success. Both are disgusting and nothing more than deception.

The thieves make people believe that Jesus’ words to “Call no man teacher, father, or leader – you have one and it is the Christ” are some sort of violation of “Divine Order” of course of which they are the head. The real order involves a personal relationship with God so there can be a transformation by exposure and a new creation. You will want to serve rather than be served. The thief can give nothing – only take what belongs to God, if you let him. Prophesies of death and destruction for failure to obey don’t happen. Death and destruction are actually far more likely to happen when you do obey. There’s no world rule or financial blessing – much less resurrection life. Just the dead and dying left in the wake of unfulfilled promises that were never God in the first place. And the wolves in sheep’s clothing walk away with what they have fleeced.

The common thread among false shepherds is that they use the “lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” as a carrot to lure people into their fold. If all we are after is to know and love Him, we are not distracted by what man says God can give us if we will give ourselves to the man. It’s a temptation that goes clear back to the Garden. Jesus’ words bring such life to everyday living because you start to see Him everywhere. Instead of agonizing warfare because you opened some door He said not to open, you find that greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world. He is the life that He promised – and that’s something a thief cannot give.

And Larry, James 4:7 says resist the enemy when he comes to steal, kill or destroy and he will flee. But because we had more LW doctrine (than Bible) about submission to man and having the mind of John or Marilyn (not Christ) , that false LW doctrine disabled our ability to resist the thief (mind control) allowing the thief to freely come and go and for some the consequences were death, loss of joy, loss of a relationship with the Lord (collateral damage). However, God says he will turn what was meant for evil into good if we have faith, if we seek Him and renew our minds with the Word of God.

Correction to misquote in first sentence of above post: James 4:7 says submit to God, resist the enemy and he will flee.

I remember one time overhearing JRS saying, “We’re getting our Old Testament back.” I remember feeling a little strange when I heard that.

Now that I know more, how can we get the Old Testament back when God Himself tore the veil in the temple in two, opening up God to the public? Who in their right mind wants to go back to an outdated and outmoded form of restrictive uselessness? There can be no “Divine Order” if the Presence of God is available to all. Buying into such an oppressive agenda is about as stupid as thinking a person needs to grovel for sunlight. Even the Holy Spirit was dissatisfied with “Divine Order” (Heb 9:8).

Maybe I misunderstood the context of the statement, but even so, “Divine Order” is rooted in the Old Testament, something Jesus came to set the “captives” free from.

Larry bobo wrote: “The thieves make people believe that Jesus’ words to “Call no man teacher, father, or leader – you have one and it is the Christ” are some sort of violation of “Divine Order” of course of which they are the head. The real order involves a personal relationship with God.”

Very well said Larry. I second the statement. So does a veil torn in two.

Lily rose said, “However, God says he will turn what was meant for evil into good if we have faith, if we seek Him and renew our minds with the Word of God.”

I believe the key for real healing lies in the teachings of Jesus. One thing we learned to do in TLWF was practice submission to a depth most Christians are not aware of. If we apply the same submission to the commands of Jesus, there is tremendous fruit. I think there was a measure of truth that resonated with us, it was just being applied in the wrong place so it ended up being destructive instead of life-giving. The goal was supposed to be a relationship with Him, not a substitute for Him. Factions and divisions are not evidence of the fruit of the Spirit – His Spirit strengthens the relationships between us wherever a new creation is found in any group of believers.

The enemy comes as an angel of light, not the way we would expect. If you examine the fruit as Jesus taught, it’s easy to see how poisoned the stream was in TLWF. The resulting deep animosity towards God and any type of church community are not fruits of the Spirit. We also cannot forget "The hand cannot say to the foot, I have no need of you." A kingdom divided against itself will not stand. We so need all the parts of the Body to come into the oneness that Jesus prayed for. Each person is so vital.

The red flag that many feel about becoming involved in another church structure I think is warranted, but perhaps misunderstood. If you want church to take the place of God as was familiar to us in TLWF, it is a violation of the relationship with God. On the other hand, if you are not connected to the Father’s family, it is also a violation and the overall Body will not function properly. The Body needs all its parts to be effective. Also, don’t under-estimate the value of being able to identify the wolves in sheep’s clothing, because they are certainly not limited to TLWF. Don't throw away those 30 years, they have tremendous value. The structure becomes way less significant when our eyes are on Him. We were all meant to be joints that supply, not spiritual welfare cases that live off another’s walk. That starts in our personal closets and by putting Jesus’ commands into practice.