Hi everyone!
Been following all the messages in this forum and numerous others. I have not written on this sight for awhile and just want to say thank you ahead of time for listening.

The stories I read continue to shock me and right when I think we have hit the bottom of the shit pile, more gets revealed. I guess I am still processng a lot of it and peeling off another layer of my ignorance and naivety. I certainly had my share of abuses while part of TLWF, but so many of the stories I have read just take it to a level I never expected or even considered. It really is painful and I find myself emotionally all over the map. I am very thankful to be out of this cult and yet it still seems to haunt me in ways that is hard to describe.

I think what is hardest for me, to be very honest is this:
1) I joined TLWF in 1974 and I really did have some very real experiences with the Lord and found a very personal relationship with Him. Part of what I learned has carried me through many rough times in my life and there are some basic values and principles that I learned from JRS and TLWF that I believe are still part of me in a good way. I always felt like there was a big gap between the word spoken and how it was interpreted and then applied. Having said this, I find myself re-evaluating everything I have ever learned in TLWF, again.

2)I truly loved and cared about the people in TLWF, including the leaders. I was 18 when I joined TLWF and it really did become my family. I was part of this cult for over 25 years. Leaving was very hard but necessary. But even now, although I am disgusted and angry with it all, I find myself perplexed. I still feel a love for the ones I was close too even though they have done some inexcusable things. I also feel very angry and disappointed and taken advantage of, and want to slap the shit out of them, and more. I feel so violated and used, yet still love those whom I gave my life to for so long. It’s like a broken dysfunctional family. So twisted, so unhealthy, and co-dependent. Sigh. Thankfully, I don’t dwell on this every day. I have a good life, am happy, but must admit that these stories have really stirred up a lot of what I thought I had worked through...and for the most part I have, just another layer surfacing. This time though the exposure is full blown. I hope it continues and the dismantling is permanent. And the lawsuits actually go somewhere. Alright, rambling on...

Ok, well, now that I got that off my chest, LOL, does anyone know what sort of threat was made to the Grants Pass cult/church recently? Who, what, where, when?

Also, any more information on what the latest is on other churches affiliated with TLWF? Follow the money? What about the sexual abusers, anything going on legally yet?

How is everyone’s temperature lately in this forum!? Aside from the joking, lol.

HAPPYsad:


A warm-hearted welcome.

The only information I have been privy to is that legal action has been underway since early November. Considering the enormity of abuses both personal and financial, I'm sure there are a lot of leads to chase down before anything comes to fruition. It is always prudent to hold one's cards close until ready to be played.

I would say in general, amidst all the grief, tears and laughter, there is an emerging optimism and realization that TLW as an organization is done for. It may appear to have some life left for a time, but the head has essentially been cut off, even though life may still appear in the body.

So much is transpiring on so many fronts regarding asset sell-offs and individual churches figuring out what direction to take, it is still early in the game before we have an accurate picture of a new landscape.

Stay close and keep adding your voice to the conversation. As our voice grows stronger, their's only grows weaker. We are now shouting what they thought their whispers could contain.

From Hawaiian shirts to orange jumpsuits please!!

Ohman? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From Hawaiian shirts to orange jumpsuits please!!

great slogan :)

Talking about alcoholics...

A few years after I'd left the walk, in the mid-80's or so I think, I looked up Winston Nunes, the famous layer on of hands from JRS's Latter Rain days in the event in Seattle that supposedly began JRS's unique revelations (later we found out he'd plagiarized most of it from a variety of sources, especially Latter Rain). Rev Nunes was still alive and preaching. and I as I remember he had jet black hair while in his 80's (what's up with evangelical preacher's and their hair color). I joined the congregation for a season, but being so PTSD over the Walk, I never got up the nerve to ask Nunes if he remembered JRS.

Anyway, I distinctly remember one sermon Nunes was talking about substance abuse (don't remember why). He talked about aggressive and charismatic evangelical preachers he had known over the years, "preaching 8 - 10 times in a week, sometimes 4 - 5 times on a Sunday", he commented that no human being could keep up that kind of pace without chemical support, either cocaine or alcohol. The whole thing stuck with me because I couldn't help thinking he was talking about JRS... I'd heard rumors but never knew for sure... imagine that..

40yearsin2016:


Interesting anecdote. This confirms ONIONs account of both JRS and G&M being 'inebriated' as a lifestyle.

JRS maintained the 10 services a week but I don't think G&M ever tried to keep up that type of schedule. They changed everything which was probably a relief for all of the people but I doubt that had anything to do with their changes. Ever.

Maybe G&M replaced the service schedule with the heavy sex schedule they talked about in all those meetings with the singles and the young people. They needed alcohol to keep up with that schedule...

Sorry. Onion is getting snarky. I'll close down for the day.

Onion Wrote:

> Maybe G&M replaced the service schedule with the
> heavy sex schedule they talked about in all those
> meetings with the singles and the young people.
> They needed alcohol to keep up with that
> schedule...

Something to ponder. Thanks Onion! :)

Pondering the imponderable.

When I was a lawyer, people would ask me how to avoid being sued. With terror in their eyes one would say, "Can they sue me?" "I don't want a lawsuit!"

People are going to sue you for anything and everything. You cannot stop that from happening. There is no such thing as preventing a lawsuit. But you can be as prepared as possible for someone who is coming after you, so they find nothing in you. The best way (IMHO) to be bulletproof is to be honest and open.

I have heard many people be afraid to post their stories or to share information concerning abuses and abusers because they don't want to be sued. Again, be open and honest. Even if someone were to come after me for slander, if I speak the truth then I can stand tall and shout what I know, have seen, or been told from the rooftops.

If what you say is true, truth is a complete defense to claims of slander or defamation (again IMHO - not legal advice).

If what you say pertains to a public person like an author, speaker, minister in the public eye, then not only does the lawsuit have to prove you lied (which means they have to open themselves up to meticulous/microscopic examination) but they would have to prove that your intent in speaking what you said was to cause harm. That your comments were malicious. What if you were just trying to expose the truth and see people protected from further or additional harm? And what if you spoke the truth as you knew it personally or had been told? In my opinion, speaking the truth with a motive to expose more truth for the purpose of protecting people you care about, is not slander/libel/defamation. The burden of proof in a civil lawsuit is on the Plaintiff. He or she would have to prove what you said was untrue. That's a HUGE hurdle for most of the people I have heard spoken of in this forum or the other groups who are discussing truth and healing.

What if you were told something in confidence? I have heard many references to the clergy-penitent privilege which of course is probably well known to everyone who has ever watched a crime show about the Catholic church. But that privilege protects the speaker who confessed in privacy about something he or she had done wrong. Talking about a third person is not protected under this privilege. Confidentiality is only required of someone with a duty of confidentiality - like a Priest or Doctor or Lawyer. IMHO.

Again, this is what I ponder. I am not a lawyer and I was never a lawyer in any State but California so my doctorate degree is based upon an education in California law and general legal principles. I cannot give legal advice. But I ponder these issues every day. And I worry about people being silenced by fear. The only person protected by silence and fear is the perpetrator. IMHO.

Thank you for pondering with us, Onion.

I was threatened with a suit in another state. I had published photos of shoddy workmanship online and the "craftsman" protested. Fortunately, I was working for a lawyer at the time and asked him what I would need to do to fight this. He laughed, and said I'd pretty much already won because the photos were pretty definitive. He told me kind of the same thing. Absolute truth wins every time.

My only problem with that was I couldn't afford to retain him to help me defend that truth.

I think the fear can be equally the misconception that truth doesn't matter in these cases, and the fear of having to actually deal with a lawsuit even if it's a sure win.

Then there is the pressure to "go public." I can't. Not right now. Might be a year before I can. I wish I could. Dearly. It is very hard to stay quiet when I want to dig in and scream from the rooftops. If I do that though, I risk my own family and won't be of any help to anyone else while I fight it.

I LOVE that the TRUTH is on our side for once. And I HOPE a floodtide of people will get together, file lawsuits, talk to the press, show up at the meetings to demand transparency, share information in the groups, whatever it takes to BRING IT DOWN!

I'll do my part too, but for now, at least, it has to be a very quiet part.