Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 19, 2019 05:49PM
There are
those times
when TRUTH must
carpet bomb
illusions
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 19, 2019 06:24PM
H.O.L.D.F.A.S.T
As representing only one voice in a company of those who are heralding a new day, I wanted to encourage us to take heart in the fact that TLW has been struck a death-blow from which it will not recover.
It may either try to prolong the inevitable for as long as possible, or perhaps fall like the walls of Jericho on one fateful day.
In the meantime, we celebrate coming back together, both with tears and laughter. This celebration is ours, because we earned it, we own it, and we will not allow it to be taken from us again.
H.O.L.D.F.A.S.T
As representing only one voice in a company of those who are heralding a new day, I wanted to encourage us to take heart in the fact that TLW has been struck a death-blow from which it will not recover.
It may either try to prolong the inevitable for as long as possible, or perhaps fall like the walls of Jericho on one fateful day.
In the meantime, we celebrate coming back together, both with tears and laughter. This celebration is ours, because we earned it, we own it, and we will not allow it to be taken from us again.
H.O.L.D.F.A.S.T
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Onion
()
Date: January 20, 2019 02:53AM
I believe this is accurate - at least it is accurate in my faulty memory.
JRS usually (most of the time) gave messages (i.e. spoke the "WORD") out of what he was experiencing or hearing about in his own life. I always remember him talking in one service about standing by his driveway looking at the roses that were beautiful and some were the size of cabbage. He said it was a beautiful day and then he said, "But it was a beautiful day in Sodom & Gomorrah the day the fire fell." Those words imprinted on my brain and every time I enjoy a beautiful day I think of those words. I am going to do some brain/conditioning/spirit surgery and see if I can change that conditioning and just enjoy the gift we get most days when we can enjoy a beautiful day.
KBoy - In the context of what JRS was doing in his life and the words he spoke growing out of his own experience, we should examine what was going on when he spoke certain things. I have it on good authority that when he got the revelation 7 years into the future (which I think is when he saw the Kingdom in 1979) he was at his cabin in Holy Jim with a woman, not his wife, and not Marilyn.
I really would like to get a copy of tape catalogs through 1983. Does anyone still have them or have they all been used for kindling? There are two romps thru the catalog history I would like to take - one to examine what was going on in JRS' personal life at the time various words came and another to point out the words that I believe were used as mind control to keep us obedient and "IN" the walk. Words that made us believe we could not and better not think for ourselves were aplenty. Words that scared the shit out of us about questioning anything that was asked of us were also hard-hitting and frequent.
If I look at a lot of the history with the understanding that JRS had a severe drinking problem for as long as I knew him and that he engaged in affairs since the beginning of the church, it makes his frame of reference for a lot of the words very telling. In my experience with alcoholics in my family (including my Aunt, Bob McClane's mom) when they binge drink they are nightmares and when they get a glimpse/day/few hours of sobriety, one of their key attributes is guilt. It's possible a lot of JRS words came out of that. He shared his condemnation and need for repentance with us freely by putting it on us.
Ah, the ponderings derived from a few cups of splendid coffee and the view of a beautiful day by the ocean.
P.S. Thank you everyone who said nice things about me and thanked me. Believe me, sharing everything I know is the least I can do to make up for almost 40 years of obeisance to false leaders.
JRS usually (most of the time) gave messages (i.e. spoke the "WORD") out of what he was experiencing or hearing about in his own life. I always remember him talking in one service about standing by his driveway looking at the roses that were beautiful and some were the size of cabbage. He said it was a beautiful day and then he said, "But it was a beautiful day in Sodom & Gomorrah the day the fire fell." Those words imprinted on my brain and every time I enjoy a beautiful day I think of those words. I am going to do some brain/conditioning/spirit surgery and see if I can change that conditioning and just enjoy the gift we get most days when we can enjoy a beautiful day.
KBoy - In the context of what JRS was doing in his life and the words he spoke growing out of his own experience, we should examine what was going on when he spoke certain things. I have it on good authority that when he got the revelation 7 years into the future (which I think is when he saw the Kingdom in 1979) he was at his cabin in Holy Jim with a woman, not his wife, and not Marilyn.
I really would like to get a copy of tape catalogs through 1983. Does anyone still have them or have they all been used for kindling? There are two romps thru the catalog history I would like to take - one to examine what was going on in JRS' personal life at the time various words came and another to point out the words that I believe were used as mind control to keep us obedient and "IN" the walk. Words that made us believe we could not and better not think for ourselves were aplenty. Words that scared the shit out of us about questioning anything that was asked of us were also hard-hitting and frequent.
If I look at a lot of the history with the understanding that JRS had a severe drinking problem for as long as I knew him and that he engaged in affairs since the beginning of the church, it makes his frame of reference for a lot of the words very telling. In my experience with alcoholics in my family (including my Aunt, Bob McClane's mom) when they binge drink they are nightmares and when they get a glimpse/day/few hours of sobriety, one of their key attributes is guilt. It's possible a lot of JRS words came out of that. He shared his condemnation and need for repentance with us freely by putting it on us.
Ah, the ponderings derived from a few cups of splendid coffee and the view of a beautiful day by the ocean.
P.S. Thank you everyone who said nice things about me and thanked me. Believe me, sharing everything I know is the least I can do to make up for almost 40 years of obeisance to false leaders.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Onion
()
Date: January 20, 2019 04:12AM
I still have a lot of family members who live near Shiloh. I received the following report from one of them from the Wednesday night meeting.
Shiloh Report 1-16-19
There was an extra dumpster at Shiloh over the weekend while the TLW people were there removing files and either packing or destroying them. The dumpster is gone tonight. On Monday it was still there but after dark all that could be seen were black trash bags.
Factual highlights from tonight's Shiloh congregant meeting: (facilitated by Chris Reeves and Ron Caquelin)
1. A review of the Budget Committee’s report;
• Based income projections on 50% of prior years
o no rental income of apartments
o no income from camps/conferences
• Based expenses on 50% of prior years
o Attempting to reduce utilities by moving and consolidating offices and not heating/cooling areas not in use,
o Reduced salaries
• Annual net loss projected at $140,000 (under the new scenario presented).
• Impound accounts to draw on for other uses if absolutely necessary
• Could possibly sell 2 rental houses owned by Shiloh
• Could possibly rent out 60 acres of pasture (not significant amount of income)
2. An update on the property sale discussion from last week;
• Addressed previous concerns regarding the vision that the property was donated for: Noah spent 120 years building the ark which was used for just over a year. It was important for Noah to do what God lead him to do but he didn't live in the ark for the rest of his life. He moved into a 'new day'.
• If the Shiloh property sells; would we want to use the proceeds to buy a new facility? Survey available at the front desk. Also will be emailed out.
3. An update on the possibility of having PastorServe and/or other such outside resources to guide us through our process.
• Craig Haworth, Ron Caquelin and Chris Reeves met with PastorServe reps.
• Proposal would have 3 team members visit Shiloh and interview 10-15% of the membership representing leaders, long time members, short time members, different age groups etc. Have an opening the first week of February.
• Would present a proposal of recommendations within 1-2 weeks. Which would bring perspective, context etc.
• cost $9,000 + travel expenses (total approximately $11,000)
• Addressed previous concerns regarding Palmer Lake shutting its doors on recommendation from PastorServe; The Palmer Lake meetings were like 'fire crackers' every time they met which is why they received that recommendation.
• Addressed previous concerns regarding if PastorServe would try to change the belief system; they do not try to change Baptist to Pentecostal or Lutheran to Methodist etc so no they will not try to change the belief system.
4. A report on the changes to the Memorandum of Understanding, (MOU), with APCO that was previously discussed;
• All of the comments, questions and concerns that were raised from the first draft of the MOU were directed to the attorney (Shiloh does have its own representation but he was sure to emphasize that it is not adversarial when asked)
• The directors (Steve Rich, Ron Caquelin and Micah Seal) met with the attorney to review the updated draft.
• The updated draft will be at the front desk for congregants to view tomorrow. There is a one week deadline for feedback.
• Not all APCO directors have resigned as it is a process to untangle all the aspects in order to close the entity and so someone has to stay and do the work.
5. An explanation of Shiloh’s interest in Marilyn Farms’ property and update on the sale of certain parcels.
• Shiloh began as a LW Trust entity. It's not just a product of what we see here. It was started and maintained with donations from the fellowship everywhere.
• Iowa law changed (unsure of timeline) so that non-profits could no longer own farms and have an unfair advantage regarding property taxes. However non-profits could own shares in for profit farms. Therefore 600 of the 800 acres in the LW Trust were separated out to form a for-profit farm named Marilyn Farms. Shiloh has 49% shares in Marilyn Farms and 2 other entities have the remaining 51%. (Chris hemmed and hawed when asked who the other 2 entities were and one point he called them 2 other churches and at another point even said he didn't know but people kept asking in different ways) Finally he said that TLW and HFM were the other 2 entities but that HFM was looking to donate their shares to another non-profit.
• Marilyn Farms is run by the shareholders and the board of directors carry out the duties.
• Marilyn Farms took on approximately $80,000 in debt starting up the cafe and some other new ventures. When TLWF imploded their customer base diminished by about 50%
• MFC is working on reorganizing itself to eliminate debt, therefore the decision (had been discussing for couple years) was made to sell a parcel of farmland North of the river. The proceeds would pay off the debt and provide operating cash for the next few years.
• MFC will be renting out the remaining acres to local organic farmers for the next few years.
Shiloh Report 1-16-19
There was an extra dumpster at Shiloh over the weekend while the TLW people were there removing files and either packing or destroying them. The dumpster is gone tonight. On Monday it was still there but after dark all that could be seen were black trash bags.
Factual highlights from tonight's Shiloh congregant meeting: (facilitated by Chris Reeves and Ron Caquelin)
1. A review of the Budget Committee’s report;
• Based income projections on 50% of prior years
o no rental income of apartments
o no income from camps/conferences
• Based expenses on 50% of prior years
o Attempting to reduce utilities by moving and consolidating offices and not heating/cooling areas not in use,
o Reduced salaries
• Annual net loss projected at $140,000 (under the new scenario presented).
• Impound accounts to draw on for other uses if absolutely necessary
• Could possibly sell 2 rental houses owned by Shiloh
• Could possibly rent out 60 acres of pasture (not significant amount of income)
2. An update on the property sale discussion from last week;
• Addressed previous concerns regarding the vision that the property was donated for: Noah spent 120 years building the ark which was used for just over a year. It was important for Noah to do what God lead him to do but he didn't live in the ark for the rest of his life. He moved into a 'new day'.
• If the Shiloh property sells; would we want to use the proceeds to buy a new facility? Survey available at the front desk. Also will be emailed out.
3. An update on the possibility of having PastorServe and/or other such outside resources to guide us through our process.
• Craig Haworth, Ron Caquelin and Chris Reeves met with PastorServe reps.
• Proposal would have 3 team members visit Shiloh and interview 10-15% of the membership representing leaders, long time members, short time members, different age groups etc. Have an opening the first week of February.
• Would present a proposal of recommendations within 1-2 weeks. Which would bring perspective, context etc.
• cost $9,000 + travel expenses (total approximately $11,000)
• Addressed previous concerns regarding Palmer Lake shutting its doors on recommendation from PastorServe; The Palmer Lake meetings were like 'fire crackers' every time they met which is why they received that recommendation.
• Addressed previous concerns regarding if PastorServe would try to change the belief system; they do not try to change Baptist to Pentecostal or Lutheran to Methodist etc so no they will not try to change the belief system.
4. A report on the changes to the Memorandum of Understanding, (MOU), with APCO that was previously discussed;
• All of the comments, questions and concerns that were raised from the first draft of the MOU were directed to the attorney (Shiloh does have its own representation but he was sure to emphasize that it is not adversarial when asked)
• The directors (Steve Rich, Ron Caquelin and Micah Seal) met with the attorney to review the updated draft.
• The updated draft will be at the front desk for congregants to view tomorrow. There is a one week deadline for feedback.
• Not all APCO directors have resigned as it is a process to untangle all the aspects in order to close the entity and so someone has to stay and do the work.
5. An explanation of Shiloh’s interest in Marilyn Farms’ property and update on the sale of certain parcels.
• Shiloh began as a LW Trust entity. It's not just a product of what we see here. It was started and maintained with donations from the fellowship everywhere.
• Iowa law changed (unsure of timeline) so that non-profits could no longer own farms and have an unfair advantage regarding property taxes. However non-profits could own shares in for profit farms. Therefore 600 of the 800 acres in the LW Trust were separated out to form a for-profit farm named Marilyn Farms. Shiloh has 49% shares in Marilyn Farms and 2 other entities have the remaining 51%. (Chris hemmed and hawed when asked who the other 2 entities were and one point he called them 2 other churches and at another point even said he didn't know but people kept asking in different ways) Finally he said that TLW and HFM were the other 2 entities but that HFM was looking to donate their shares to another non-profit.
• Marilyn Farms is run by the shareholders and the board of directors carry out the duties.
• Marilyn Farms took on approximately $80,000 in debt starting up the cafe and some other new ventures. When TLWF imploded their customer base diminished by about 50%
• MFC is working on reorganizing itself to eliminate debt, therefore the decision (had been discussing for couple years) was made to sell a parcel of farmland North of the river. The proceeds would pay off the debt and provide operating cash for the next few years.
• MFC will be renting out the remaining acres to local organic farmers for the next few years.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 20, 2019 06:24AM
ONION:
Thank you for helping to make my points.
The Holy Jim Canyon charade is a perfect example of 'do as I say and not as I do'. There was a serious cognitive disconnect on the part of JRS who didn't seem to bat an eye at walking in the opposite direction of 'the word' he spoke when it suited his fancy. Most of the sheep would never even consider pulling these types of stunts.
Your tape-catalog jaunt sounds extremely fascinating considering your proximity to JRS' backside during those times, and just one more level of deconstructing a mindset that was far from being 'inspired by God'. The alcoholism alone is enough to cast many doubts on the 'origins of inspiration'.
We who have striven together to see this darkness exposed can take heart in the fact that there is LIGHT at the end of this tunnel.
Our thanks again to ONION, for providing the torch that has exposed so much of what was formerly hidden from our sight.
Thank you for helping to make my points.
The Holy Jim Canyon charade is a perfect example of 'do as I say and not as I do'. There was a serious cognitive disconnect on the part of JRS who didn't seem to bat an eye at walking in the opposite direction of 'the word' he spoke when it suited his fancy. Most of the sheep would never even consider pulling these types of stunts.
Your tape-catalog jaunt sounds extremely fascinating considering your proximity to JRS' backside during those times, and just one more level of deconstructing a mindset that was far from being 'inspired by God'. The alcoholism alone is enough to cast many doubts on the 'origins of inspiration'.
We who have striven together to see this darkness exposed can take heart in the fact that there is LIGHT at the end of this tunnel.
Our thanks again to ONION, for providing the torch that has exposed so much of what was formerly hidden from our sight.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Onion
()
Date: January 20, 2019 07:38AM
I went to the TLW.org online store and looked at some of the stuff you can get for free. I was hoping some of the old tape catalogs would be available but I didn't see them. I was able to download a copy of the full This Week list and a few pdf's of chapters from some of JRS' books. There is a taped message by Marilyn in late 1982 about the ministry to the word ministry and I couldn't make myself listen although I intend to.
At various times I was tasked with teaching people how to do work the way Marilyn would want it and even "how to think like Marilyn." I believed we were "doing a thing." And I believed, "Isn't this fun?" And I am so sorry to anyone who I tried to impart this to. Again in peeling layers, I uncovered the memories of the times I lived in abject fear of doing something wrong. I remember when JRS was ill and I was doing the admin work in the back office at Blix and she would call and rant at me for imperfections. It is very hard to remember - not because I can't remember but because it was awful and painful. I guess I am peeling more layers.
Thank God for the light at the end of the tunnel and for the crowd that is moving towards that light with me.
At various times I was tasked with teaching people how to do work the way Marilyn would want it and even "how to think like Marilyn." I believed we were "doing a thing." And I believed, "Isn't this fun?" And I am so sorry to anyone who I tried to impart this to. Again in peeling layers, I uncovered the memories of the times I lived in abject fear of doing something wrong. I remember when JRS was ill and I was doing the admin work in the back office at Blix and she would call and rant at me for imperfections. It is very hard to remember - not because I can't remember but because it was awful and painful. I guess I am peeling more layers.
Thank God for the light at the end of the tunnel and for the crowd that is moving towards that light with me.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
Chachakitty
()
Date: January 20, 2019 09:12AM
I’m so sick of being related to people that support “the walk” That I actually share my DNA with brainwashed abusers... it’s rough
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: January 20, 2019 11:15AM
Onion Wrote:
> Thank God for the light at the end of the tunnel
> and for the crowd that is moving towards that
> light with me.
Yes
> Thank God for the light at the end of the tunnel
> and for the crowd that is moving towards that
> light with me.
Yes
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
changedagain
()
Date: January 20, 2019 11:17AM
Chachakitty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m so sick of being related to people that
> support “the walk” That I actually share my DNA
> with brainwashed abusers... it’s rough
Welcome Chachakitty.
You'll find people here that can help you with that.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m so sick of being related to people that
> support “the walk” That I actually share my DNA
> with brainwashed abusers... it’s rough
Welcome Chachakitty.
You'll find people here that can help you with that.
Re: The Living Word Fellowship, The Walk, John Robert Stevens
Posted by:
kBOY
()
Date: January 20, 2019 03:29PM
CHACHAKITTY:
Welcome to the FAMILY. I'm pretty sure your DNA concerns are shared by many both on and off this forum. As CHANGEDagain mentioned, you will find help and encouragement here from those who suffered the heat of the day like yourself.
Welcome to the FAMILY. I'm pretty sure your DNA concerns are shared by many both on and off this forum. As CHANGEDagain mentioned, you will find help and encouragement here from those who suffered the heat of the day like yourself.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.