puddington Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Invisible Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > It wasn't John's fault that I made John out to
> be
> > more to me than he should be.
>
> Invisible, I respectfully have to disagree with
> this one statement. I hold JRS partially
> responsible. He had the means and authority to
> correct us when we started to glorify him. He
> could have shut that behavior down. But he
> didn't. Instead he fueled it with messages about
> the special "kingdom apostle", etc. I think he
> liked the glory. Sorry, but I'm not going to put
> all the blame on us.


Boy, I blame JRS for far more than that. I blame him for teaching me God had restored the NT church with all their extraordinary powers, gifts, miracles, prophecy, healing and divine revelation, but JRS didn't give me any criteria to know if his divine revelation was accurate. When the other ministries proclaimed, "Thus saith the Lord" how would I know if it was a true or it was not true. Nothing was taught about how you would make the distinction. Was my pastor giving me stuff that was not a true representation of God...that I cannot trust? It doesn't matter JRS said. God will turn any error into good. I blame JRS for pulling the wool over my head. So you have all the issues regarding whether JRS's revelations were from God and equal to scripture and if the other ministries revelations could be trusted. There was no safe ground. You couldn't say to JRS or the ministries, I am sorry, but God didn't tell you that. I also blame JRS for teaching me that I could create my own future and fulfill all my dreams by verbalizing it. It doesn't work that way. I'll stop for now. I could probably write pages here with complaints about the teachings of JRS.

Invisible-I struggle with condemning the teachings of JRS that were untrue and to me faith destroying versus judging him for his errors. Here's something I found. The Apostle Paul spent years warning the churches about those who would try to destroy their faith, who would come as false spiritual leaders and teachers to take them away from the truth. They masquerade as those who represent God and do not. For Paul, false spiritual leadership had to be exposed because it causes men to believe the illusion they have found God and are pleasing to HIM. That is why false spiritual leaders are the most cursed in the Scriptures. The greatest single tirade against false spiritual teachers is from Jesus and found in Matt Ch 23:1-12. There's condemnation of the teachers, warnings to avoid them, and it closes with a compassionate word of pity about the people who have been deceived under their influence being judged. It was the final sermon given by Jesus to the multitudes before he died.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as my time in TLWF being the will of God, I
> tend to think now that God can use even our
> mistakes for our good in the end. Often our
> greatest hurts become our ministry to others.


Yes-a ministry of warning.

I agree we may warn - but I think it is important how we go about warning. Let your words be seasoned with grace.

Okay - so some people completely condemn or all but condemn JRS. I believe I have been given the right to judge a "matter" for myself but not the right to personally judge to condemn the man, as if I were God.

Deeds I can judge and the action I can take - is to not do the same myself but to bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance - my own repentance - turning to do what I believe I have found to be good.

But who determines what is good? Is there any one offended in hearing that Jesus said, "That no one is good but God alone." So outside of or apart from God - man can do right according to what is right in a man's own sight. But I think - one can be assured that if a person's right is not the right - there are built in consequences, to be experienced.

Or can we really bear to hear - you being ( evil ) know how to give good gifts to your children. In Matthew 7 - verse 12 Jesus sums up part of his teaching on judging - with - Therefore, however you want people to treat you, so treat them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2017 08:23AM by Invisible.

I’ve often wondered if we elevate another to indirectly elevate ourselves. If they turn out to be a nobody, does that make us a nobody as well? For me, when John or G&M stopped being a position I idolized, it was much easier to see the doctrinal errors. Jesus said to call no man Master – that we are all brothers. That’s not meant to be a put down to those who have set themselves up as leaders - it is simply doing what Jesus said to do. Now I would tend to question how healthy a person is to even want to run other’s lives. It almost seems like a sickness.

Why is it such a sacred cow to even consider that the leadership of TLWF was not who they claimed to be? What I gave my life for almost seems comical now, it was so not true. The least we can do is talk about the elephant in the room. Instead of claiming revelation, how about pointing out the fruit as Jesus suggested. After studying other groups, and literature that John would have had access to, I’ve come to believe that he knew far more than what he let on about controlling other people’s lives.

I know that there is a thought process within TLWF that if you disagree with the leadership, you automatically have ill will towards them. That is so not true. There are people within TLWF that I still care deeply for and would like to see set free – actually, there is no one I would not want to see free. The real anger and name calling is coming from TLWF accusing those who have left of being Satan, a Nephilim, rebellious etc.

My contention has always been that there is a difference between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of TLWF. Where the teachings of TLWF have differed, there has been destruction. I’d like to see the destruction end – not an evil goal. It really is possible to have a relationship with those who see things differently than you do – just ask my wife. I can’t even imagine what it would be like if we prophesied judgement on each other every time we saw things differently. Oh wait, I can imagine it – that’s why I left.

It is so interesting reading these posts.

It evokes a pondering of what sort of thoughts must have been experienced by those who witnessed the arrest and subsequent crucifixion of Jesus. A few years passed and nothing happened. No apocalypse. Then, a couple of decades passed and everyone noticed that everything was still the same. Still being kicked around by the Romans, still paying taxes, people still getting old or sick and dying. People are still waiting for something to happen over two thousand years later.

We continue to speculate on what JRS "really" meant, what G&M were "really" up to, when probably the whole thing was just about keeping their checking accounts topped off using other people's money.

I know I sound cynical, but don't mean to. It's just of great interest to me how people go about the process of embracing a faith. I was in TLW also; hook, line & sinker. The difference in my case is that when I left, I abandoned the idea of a paradise with Jesus waiting for me, and living my life with that end in mind. Rather, I decided to embrace each day as my spiritual reality and let the after-life take care of itself. (I'm not necessarily advocating that route. It just works for me). To that end, it allowed me to appreciate the beauty of the other religions and all their diversity, but also to see an appreciable amount of overlap between the ancient faiths and Christianity. It is really amazing how similar certain ancient Babylonian accounts are to books in the Old Testament.

Anyway, I digress.

rond, How good for you, you lost your faith. Sounds like your bragging again. Your path doesn't impress. The forum is about the concerns we have about the LW, the Walk, TLWF cult. Posting and expressing concerns about the cult can help people process the hurt. That's not speculation. To say so comes across as victim bashing. Many were victimized and continue to be.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve often wondered if we elevate another to
> indirectly elevate ourselves. If they turn out to
> be a nobody, does that make us a nobody as well?

I know expats who still think because they knew John. They touched Christ. They were close to Christ.

> > Why is it such a sacred cow to even consider that
> the leadership of TLWF was not who they claimed to
> be? What I gave my life for almost seems comical
> now, it was so not true. The least we can do is
> talk about the elephant in the room.

After reading all the posts. I was irked by posters who try to shut posters down. From saying what they really feel about John and G&M. IMO John was an angel of light. Evil. G&M the same.

Having taken some courses in counseling. All posters should know this. People recover sooner when they know the trauma and pain in their life wasn't their fault. When they talk about the elephant in the room. There is a lot of evidence. That talking and writing about trauma and pain improves mental health. People feel understood by others. People better understand their emotions.

rond posted May 29, 2017 - 8:29 pm
-------------------------
Hi rond,
in response to what you posted,

I heard what you have expressed in this way- That as a former member of TLW you pondered things that were relative to your own self and faith and concluded that there is nothing new under the sun. And so you found a resting place in your own active spiritual life - by living each day in the now.

Am I hearing what you were basically and mainly saying or did I miss hear what you said ?

Invisible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree we may warn - but I think it is important
> how we go about warning. Let your words be
> seasoned with grace.
>
> Okay - so some people completely condemn or all
> but condemn JRS. I believe I have been given the
> right to judge a "matter" for myself but not the
> right to personally judge to condemn the man, as
> if I were God.
>
> Deeds I can judge and the action I can take - is
> to not do the same myself but to bring forth fruit
> in keeping with repentance - my own repentance -
> turning to do what I believe I have found to be
> good.
>
> But who determines what is good? Is there any one
> offended in hearing that Jesus said, "That no one
> is good but God alone." So outside of or apart
> from God - man can do right according to what is
> right in a man's own sight. But I think - one can
> be assured that if a person's right is not the
> right - there are built in consequences, to be
> experienced.
>
> Or can we really bear to hear - you being ( evil )
> know how to give good gifts to your children. In
> Matthew 7 - verse 12 Jesus sums up part of his
> teaching on judging - with - Therefore, however
> you want people to treat you, so treat them, for
> this is the Law and the Prophets.


If we want people to know our love, should we not criticize or judge the teaching of JRS or G&M? After all no one is good. How do you nicely say TLWF is a cult, JRS and G&M mix truth with error, perverted the Gospel or forsake the truth of God ? How loving is it not to say anything? Poor, poor false teachers. Let's understand them and open our hearts to them and care. I do hope they get saved someday, but beyond that, I care much more about the members and damage to the members following cultish deception than if God shows mercy to JRS or G&M.

Of course none of us are perfect or good. But that doesn't exempt those who teach God's word from handling it rightly. Ever notice how those who want to silence JRS detractors do so in the name of not judging others. Yet they pass their own judgment by implying the detractors unmerciful or judgmental for sounding the alarm about the false teaching.

I found the following:

Matthew 7:1-5

“Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”

But this passage is also one of the most misunderstood, as well. How can it possibly mean that we are never to evaluate the actions of another when the very next verse (verse 6) says:

“Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”

A few verses later, Jesus warned, “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:15-16).

In order to determine the “dogs,” “swine,” or wolves, we are required to make a judgment. Jesus acknowledged this when he said, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24).

So the issue is not whether we make judgments, it’s how we do it. We are not to be hypocritical and self-righteous, focusing on someone else’s “speck” while ignoring our own “log.” We are also never to judge anyone’s heart, for only God knows the heart. But we are expected to evaluate what we see and hear—actions and fruit—to determine if they are consistent with God’s Word and worthy of our following.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 03:42AM by lily rose.