rond- you tell us you are in a good place without Jesus and there is really nothing for you to sort out. You have a wife and you seem unscathed by having been in the Walk. Many of us checked out other spiritual paths too. It's a personal choice. We get it. I respect your choice. However, you come across as a bit clueless about the how people were profoundly hurt and damaged by the Walk and TLWF and it can affect our lives for many years. It comes across as self righteous to say people are speculating here about their experiences and expression of their feelings. May I suggest you educate yourself about coercive persuasion and influencing techniques that are readily available for reading on the Rick Ross forum.

I know I said I wouldn't post on here anymore, but I like what Invisible has to say. Just because he/she doesn't have the same opinion, isn't that one of the things you hate about TLWF. You voice your opinion and they shut you down?

Just so you know, the last time my wife and I went to CLW which was after GC was sold, one of the ministries, who my wife adores and had me pray for him on many occasions because he was have a hard time. How she knew this I will call perception, something I lack, but some of you have posted about him and most people love him. I still don't hate him, but it really hurt. He and his wife came in late so they set down on the same isle and he said, "look what the dogs dragged in". His wife tapped him and told him to be nice. He's been around for a very long time, but still looks young for his age. I don't know why he said it.

The RRModerator has said, "Blaming the victim is not what the message board is about. It's wrong and not helpful. Don't attempt to imply blame or shame victims on the message board. " I agree coming from some training as a counselor. Invisible recently said he/she doesn't blame John and he/she bares responsibility for elevating him. To which Puddington weighed in that he/she doesn't accept that opinion that he/she is to blame. Southgate has said he or his wife don't blame anyone. So neither Invisible or Southgate seem themselves as victims. Their posts tilt in that direction. That's their opinion. But is their option acceptable on this message board. NO. Not every opinion is acceptable and the RR Moderator can shut it down. As the RRModerator has said, "It's wrong and not helpful. Don't attempt to imply blame or shame victims on the message board." BTW, saying something offensive and they saying that's not what you intended doesn't cut it.

I said it in my post yesterday, people recover from trauma and pain faster when the realize it wasn't their fault. I agree with the RR Moderator that it's wrong and not helpful to imply otherwise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2017 08:16AM by NickleandDimed.

NickelandDimed said, "rond, How good for you, you lost your faith".

To the contrary, my faith is richer, deeper, and more profound than it ever was in TLW. I never became an atheist. I just abandoned the idea that there is only one single path to spirituality. I never had the intent to minimize anyone's suffering. I'm very sorry if I came across that way. Last thing I want to do is minimize another's pain. NiclelandDimed's response to my post is clear evidence that conveying emotion in text is a difficult undertaking. I'll work on it.

Invisible said, "And so you found a resting place in your own active spiritual life - by living each day in the now." I think that proposal more closely hits the mark. The beauty of faith is the deeply personal nature of it and each individual must find their own way.

Another posted that perhaps I left the Walk unscathed. That would have been awesome, but definitely not true. It took me several years to reject the notion that I was in part, personally responsible for JRS's death because my faith was not strong enough. That's a lot of unnecessary baggage for a human being to carry. Then, after twenty + years of alcoholism, I finally sought help and began the slow, painful road back to sanity. I think that it was chiefly my interaction with many different faiths during that process that led me to the understanding that there is no "one true path".

I guess I came to the place where I have deep respect for those both in and out of TLW, though I do hope that those in TLW eventually see the cult for what it is and stop funneling money to someone who doesn't deserve it.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve often wondered if we elevate another to
> indirectly elevate ourselves. If they turn out to
> be a nobody, does that make us a nobody as well?
> For me, when John or G&M stopped being a position
> I idolized, it was much easier to see the
> doctrinal errors. Jesus said to call no man
> Master – that we are all brothers. That’s
> not meant to be a put down to those who have set
> themselves up as leaders - it is simply doing what
> Jesus said to do. Now I would tend to question
> how healthy a person is to even want to run
> other’s lives. It almost seems like a
> sickness.
>
> Why is it such a sacred cow to even consider that
> the leadership of TLWF was not who they claimed to
> be? What I gave my life for almost seems comical
> now, it was so not true. The least we can do is
> talk about the elephant in the room. Instead of
> claiming revelation, how about pointing out the
> fruit as Jesus suggested. After studying other
> groups, and literature that John would have had
> access to, I’ve come to believe that he knew far
> more than what he let on about controlling other
> people’s lives.
>

Thinking about Larry Bobo's post. I went to a gathering of expats. Who still idolized John (not G&M). Who claim closeness to John. Their glory days. They reminded me of people you know who were popular in high school glory days. They can spend the rest of their lives reliving it. The more I read the information on this forum about mind control. The more I see it in those expats.

I don't know for sure if some on the forum. Who try to shame posters into not condemning John. Were brainwashed. But the shoe seems to fit. IMO not only was John an angel of light. A liar. Jesus would have called him a viper. John and G&M. A brood of vipers.

Dude, think what you want but I'm not blaming anyone including you. If my situation was different, say they split up me and my wife, I would be one pissed off person to say the least. Plus, I wasn't always like this. I was blaming plenty of people for a lot of things, but finally had to let it go because I'm not totally without blame myself. When they sold Anaheim, I didn't give a shit about those people or at the very least indifferent. My attitude was well they should just go some place else. Again, I know some people are hurt really bad, do you really think I'm blaming them?

I would like to thank Larry and Mike for speaking out for over a decade and exposing the LW cult and its leadership (JRS, Marilyn, and Gary) without holding back and without apology. There are no sacred cows. It's probably because of your example that I am also able to speak out.

It might be of interest to some to see how false teachers, false prophets, and false brethren are portrayed in Scripture. The God of the Bible made certain these specific references were written down for all generations, that none doubt the seriousness with which He views those who pervert His character, ways, or Word.

Wolves--Matthew 7:15 Tares--Matthew 13:25
Brood of Vipers--Matthew 23:33 Servants of Satan--2 Corinthians
Unreasoning animals--2 Peter 2:12 A Thief--John 10:1
Wild waves of the sea--Jude 13 A Hireling (only in it for the pay)--
(John 10:12)
Revilers---Jude 8 Brutal Shepherds--(Ezekiel 34:1-22)
Spots in the Love Feasts--Jude 12 Licentious--Jude 4
Twice Dead--Jude 12

Old Testament

References to false teachers, false brethren, and false prophets especially are legion within the pages of the Old Testament. We will concentrate on only a few, dealing with specific individuals named and dealt with by the LORD.

Leviticus 10:1-2--Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, put strange fire in censors (made up their own worship of God according to their own desire), and were publicly consumed by fire from the LORD. Substitute worship was the same sin for which Cain was rebuked in Genesis 4. When God specifies the way of true worship, He means for us to cleave to that pattern. Any addition, subtraction, or man-made contrivance on our part is an abomination.

Numbers Chapter 16--Dathan, Abiram, and Korah were publicly rebuked by Moses (verse 26) and swallowed by the earth in judgement of God (verses 31-32)

1 Kings 22:11, 24-25--False prophet, Zedekiah, was rebuked and judged by Micaiah

Jeremiah 28:15-17--The false prophet Hananiah dies after rebuke by the LORD through Jeremiah

Jeremiah 29:31-32--false prophet, Shemiah, dies after LORD’s rebuke through Jeremiah

Much of the book of Jeremiah is spent rebuking the false prophets that have seduced Israel from following the LORD, and have led the people into idol worship (a false or man-made image of a god) Jeremiah 2:8, 5:30-31

Ezekiel 8:8-11--false elders of Israel exposed by God, including Jaazaniah, the son of Shaphan

Ezekiel 11:1-13--False brethren exposed and one of them, Pelatiah, dies

In addition to these, much of Ezekiel’s time is spent prophesying against:

False brethren (Chapter 11:4)
False prophets (Chapter 13:16-17)
False shepherds (Chapter 34)

Much of the book of Isaiah is devoted to the rebuke of the LORD against the false prophets who are leading Israel astray from the true God to idols. Isaiah 9:15, 28:7

There are many more instances, but the pattern is plain--God exposes men publicly who defy Him, preach, teach, or prophesy out of their own hearts, and try to lead His people astray.

New Testament

Matthew 23--Jesus publicly rebukes the Pharisees for their hypocrisy and man-made worship of God, and the twisting of the Scriptures

1 Timothy 1:19-20--Hymaneus and Alexander delivered to Satan because of blasphemy by Paul the apostle

2 Timothy 4:14-- Paul warns Timothy to beware of Alexander the Coppersmith, who greatly opposed the gospel

Galatians 2:11-13--Though certainly not false brethren, Peter was rebuked by Paul, for, along with Barnabas, Peter was guilty of public hypocrisy--Paul publicly corrected him

3 John 9-10--Diotrophes opposing John and controlling Church members--John said, “I will remember him”.

Revelation 2:20--Jezebel--false prophetess in Thyatira congregation--everyone knew who she was, as she was active in the Church

2 Corinthians 10:8-11, Chapter 11:1-4, 12-15, 20-23--false apostles exposed as bringing another “Jesus” into the congregation

Revelation 2:14--Pergamos--some hold to the teachings of Baalam, and, verse 15, some who hold to the teachings of the Nicolatians, which Jesus said He hates

Romans 16:17--Church there told to take note of those causing divisions contrary to the doctrine of Christ and avoid them

Galatians 1:8--false brethren bringing circumcision into the Galatian church--presenting another “Jesus”--Paul said, “Let him be accursed!”

Titus 1:9-16--Timothy told to rebuke false teachers--they must be stopped because they are doing great damage to the body of Christ there

1 Timothy 1:3-4--Timothy told to command those teaching wrong doctrine to stop it

lily rose,

Those are all very good verses, no doubt about it, but I hear a lot of speculation on this website and rumors. I could post a lot of things that I've heard over the years, and who knows lots of it could be true. I wish more people that had 1st hand knowledge of this stuff would post on here. It's not going to happen as long as people keep pounding someone just because they don't bash John.

lily rose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to thank Larry and Mike for speaking
> out for over a decade and exposing the LW cult and
> its leadership (JRS, Marilyn, and Gary) without
> holding back and without apology. There are no
> sacred cows. It's probably because of your example
> that I am also able to speak out.
>
> It might be of interest to some to see how false
> teachers, false prophets, and false brethren are
> portrayed in Scripture. The God of the Bible made
> certain these specific references were written
> down for all generations, that none doubt the
> seriousness with which He views those who pervert
> His character, ways, or Word.
>
> Wolves--Matthew 7:15
> Tares--Matthew 13:25
> Brood of Vipers--Matthew 23:33
> Servants of Satan--2
> Corinthians
> Unreasoning animals--2 Peter 2:12
> A Thief--John 10:1
> Wild waves of the sea--Jude 13
> A Hireling (only in it for
> the pay)--
>
> (John
> 10:12)
> Revilers---Jude 8
> Brutal
> Shepherds--(Ezekiel 34:1-22)
> Spots in the Love Feasts--Jude 12
> Licentious--Jude 4
> Twice Dead--Jude 12
>
> Old Testament
>
> References to false teachers, false brethren, and
> false prophets especially are legion within the
> pages of the Old Testament. We will concentrate on
> only a few, dealing with specific individuals
> named and dealt with by the LORD.
>
> Leviticus 10:1-2--Nadab and Abihu, the sons of
> Aaron, put strange fire in censors (made up their
> own worship of God according to their own desire),
> and were publicly consumed by fire from the LORD.
> Substitute worship was the same sin for which Cain
> was rebuked in Genesis 4. When God specifies the
> way of true worship, He means for us to cleave to
> that pattern. Any addition, subtraction, or
> man-made contrivance on our part is an
> abomination.
>
> Numbers Chapter 16--Dathan, Abiram, and Korah were
> publicly rebuked by Moses (verse 26) and swallowed
> by the earth in judgement of God (verses 31-32)
>
> 1 Kings 22:11, 24-25--False prophet, Zedekiah, was
> rebuked and judged by Micaiah
>
> Jeremiah 28:15-17--The false prophet Hananiah dies
> after rebuke by the LORD through Jeremiah
>
> Jeremiah 29:31-32--false prophet, Shemiah, dies
> after LORD’s rebuke through Jeremiah
>
> Much of the book of Jeremiah is spent rebuking the
> false prophets that have seduced Israel from
> following the LORD, and have led the people into
> idol worship (a false or man-made image of a god)
> Jeremiah 2:8, 5:30-31
>
> Ezekiel 8:8-11--false elders of Israel exposed by
> God, including Jaazaniah, the son of Shaphan
>
> Ezekiel 11:1-13--False brethren exposed and one of
> them, Pelatiah, dies
>
> In addition to these, much of Ezekiel’s time is
> spent prophesying against:
>
> False brethren (Chapter 11:4)
> False prophets (Chapter 13:16-17)
> False shepherds (Chapter 34)
>
> Much of the book of Isaiah is devoted to the
> rebuke of the LORD against the false prophets who
> are leading Israel astray from the true God to
> idols. Isaiah 9:15, 28:7
>
> There are many more instances, but the pattern is
> plain--God exposes men publicly who defy Him,
> preach, teach, or prophesy out of their own
> hearts, and try to lead His people astray.
>
> New Testament
>
> Matthew 23--Jesus publicly rebukes the Pharisees
> for their hypocrisy and man-made worship of God,
> and the twisting of the Scriptures
>
> 1 Timothy 1:19-20--Hymaneus and Alexander
> delivered to Satan because of blasphemy by Paul
> the apostle
>
> 2 Timothy 4:14-- Paul warns Timothy to beware of
> Alexander the Coppersmith, who greatly opposed the
> gospel
>
> Galatians 2:11-13--Though certainly not false
> brethren, Peter was rebuked by Paul, for, along
> with Barnabas, Peter was guilty of public
> hypocrisy--Paul publicly corrected him
>
> 3 John 9-10--Diotrophes opposing John and
> controlling Church members--John said, “I will
> remember him”.
>
> Revelation 2:20--Jezebel--false prophetess in
> Thyatira congregation--everyone knew who she was,
> as she was active in the Church
>
> 2 Corinthians 10:8-11, Chapter 11:1-4, 12-15,
> 20-23--false apostles exposed as bringing another
> “Jesus” into the congregation
>
> Revelation 2:14--Pergamos--some hold to the
> teachings of Baalam, and, verse 15, some who hold
> to the teachings of the Nicolatians, which Jesus
> said He hates
>
> Romans 16:17--Church there told to take note of
> those causing divisions contrary to the doctrine
> of Christ and avoid them
>
> Galatians 1:8--false brethren bringing
> circumcision into the Galatian church--presenting
> another “Jesus”--Paul said, “Let him be
> accursed!”
>
> Titus 1:9-16--Timothy told to rebuke false
> teachers--they must be stopped because they are
> doing great damage to the body of Christ there
>
> 1 Timothy 1:3-4--Timothy told to command those
> teaching wrong doctrine to stop it


My dad called John a blind fool (Matthew). My dad could really see through John's bs and lies. Most of it wasn't true. Larry Bobo talked about his parents talking to him. Sending him information. My dad did the same. I had to have been brainwashed not to listen to my dad.

rond Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NickelandDimed said, "rond, How good for you, you
> lost your faith".
>
> To the contrary, my faith is richer, deeper, and
> more profound than it ever was in TLW. I never
> became an atheist. I just abandoned the idea that
> there is only one single path to spirituality. I
> never had the intent to minimize anyone's
> suffering. I'm very sorry if I came across that
> way. Last thing I want to do is minimize another's
> pain. NiclelandDimed's response to my post is
> clear evidence that conveying emotion in text is a
> difficult undertaking. I'll work on it.
>
> Invisible said, "And so you found a resting place
> in your own active spiritual life - by living each
> day in the now." I think that proposal more
> closely hits the mark. The beauty of faith is the
> deeply personal nature of it and each individual
> must find their own way.
>
> Another posted that perhaps I left the Walk
> unscathed. That would have been awesome, but
> definitely not true. It took me several years to
> reject the notion that I was in part, personally
> responsible for JRS's death because my faith was
> not strong enough. That's a lot of unnecessary
> baggage for a human being to carry. Then, after
> twenty + years of alcoholism, I finally sought
> help and began the slow, painful road back to
> sanity. I think that it was chiefly my interaction
> with many different faiths during that process
> that led me to the understanding that there is no
> "one true path".
>
> I guess I came to the place where I have deep
> respect for those both in and out of TLW, though I
> do hope that those in TLW eventually see the cult
> for what it is and stop funneling money to someone
> who doesn't deserve it.

ROND: If you are who I think you are, then I knew you and your very sweet little wife way back in the 70s. Congratulations on being best friends and still being married. Who among us knew how our lives would unfold and where we would end up all these years later. The word "unfold" in the context of this setting actually takes me back. I was there for the "unfolding," I was there for the Jubilee Trail, I was at the Anaheim church on the first row over by the organ standing two people down from Martha while the entire congregation was on its feet screaming "death to the channel;" I was at John and Marilyn's wedding. But, clearly I digress.

I very much agree with your statement: "I think that it was chiefly my interaction with many different faiths during that process that led me to the understanding that there is no "one true path"." What Invisible said also resonated with me: "And so you found a resting place in your own active spiritual life - by living each day in the now."

This forum is about more than just TLW and all its insanity. It's also about how people find healing and the lengths they go to seek it. Some who post here (I for one) have little interest in rehashing the antics of Gary (didn't he disappear?) and Marilyn (she's dead, by the way), being preached at or judged, or reading the endless speculation. When I read ROND's first post, my impression was that he was "testing the water" to see if it could be trusted. There are probably others who read what is posted here and are trying to find the courage to post something of their own. God's grace has been evident throughout my life and there seem to be daily opportunities for me to be gracious to others even though it isn't always easy and I don't do it perfectly. Peace to all!