JRS used to say that people would half-heartedly excuse themselves by saying things like, "I have a temper like a shotgun -- sometimes it just goes off!" He followed it up with, "Yes, but how many dead and bleeding sheep did you leave in your wake?"

Many people have been on the receiving end of Gary & Marilyn's explosions through the years. Some people became nearly suicidal when they were blasted with that anger -- after all, if you've blurred the line between the Lord and Gary & Marilyn to the point where they're identical in your mind, when they assault you what's to prevent you from believing that God Himself has cut you off?

Their messages seem much more generic now, but is the same intimidation still at work in their daily operations?

Lily Rose, I wasn't quoting you, that's my opinion that perhaps the leadership and the message of the Walk has been an abomination all the time, not just since the regime change. I base that opinion on much more than what you have said.

Perfect, Saw Enough.
Gary promoting oneness among 'all the churches of the earth' is the most delusional notion of all. I think George Constanza's parents would do a better job.


Saw enough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One thing has not changed through the years -- the
> belief that the LWF is always on "the front
> lines." First they were different because they
> were not the old order. Then they had the Apostle.
> When others started to claim they had apostles,
> they claimed that they were still different
> because they had the Apostle to the Kingdom."
> They had the Apostle who saw 7 years into the
> Kingdom. Then they had Marilyn who was Christ in
> the flesh. Now they are boasting that they have
> sent of Gary's tapes and literature to Pope
> Francis and they are on the front line of
> promoting oneness among all the churches in the
> earth. They called month-long sessions of
> intercession for America prior to Presidential
> elections. Then the Sunday following the
> election, Gary asked them how many of them were
> disappointed in the results. Almost everyone,
> Marilyn included, raised her hand. Gary's
> consoling word was that they were never called to
> just influence America -- they are supposed to be
> the prophetic community that rules the nations.
> And now they have their own Shiloh University,
> which will be different from every other
> university in the world.
>
> Perhaps instead of pumping each other up for
> decades they could have started with a simple
> pledge, like doctors take: "First, do no harm."

They've managed to convince people their angere is actually rooted in God's anger...that's why their outbursts have been so harmful/psychological debilitating.
BTW, if you're into this violence to make things right...you should have volunteered for military service when you were of right age. There was plenty of action to be had in Vietnam, and going forward to the present time, there's ISIS you can take on. Quit beating up the little people!

Saw enough Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JRS used to say that people would half-heartedly
> excuse themselves by saying things like, "I have a
> temper like a shotgun -- sometimes it just goes
> off!" He followed it up with, "Yes, but how many
> dead and bleeding sheep did you leave in your
> wake?"
>
> Many people have been on the receiving end of Gary
> & Marilyn's explosions through the years. Some
> people became nearly suicidal when they were
> blasted with that anger -- after all, if you've
> blurred the line between the Lord and Gary &
> Marilyn to the point where they're identical in
> your mind, when they assault you what's to prevent
> you from believing that God Himself has cut you
> off?
>
> Their messages seem much more generic now, but is
> the same intimidation still at work in their daily
> operations?

Saw enough Wrote In Part:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Perhaps instead of pumping each other up for
> decades they could have started with a simple
> pledge, like doctors take: "First, do no harm."


_______________________________________________________________________________

I think what I have seen in churches I have attended that have church hierarchies that control such as LW and the Catholic Church is they will always protect their hierarchy first rather than concern themselves about harming the congregation. Churches with controlling hierarchies lose touch with the message of Christ in order to protect their hierarchies.

When people ask questions about did so and so drink, have affairs, were their scandals, I think they ask these questions because they want to be informed and there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes we need to focus on the debauchery of the prodigal son. If the Catholic Church had informed their congregation about those priests who were sometimes using alcohol to get young boys drunk so they could abuse them, rather than hide these scandals, think how many other young boys could have been spared the abuse. If I had been informed about some of the scandalous behavior in the LW before I began attending the church, maybe I would have made a more informed decision about attending.

Saw enough mentioned suicide. The cult interventionist David Clark has written that when he attended the Walk in the early 70's, a young woman he personally knew committed suicide following a "word" from the controlling church leaders that she could not marry her boyfriend. And there were other controlling issues such as a "word" to separate her from her biological family. I wish I had been informed about these examples of how the church leaders controlled the personal lives of its members that ultimately harmed them.

The congregations were raised on a diet of being told what to think. Paul claimed to have the mind of Christ on many issues. Likewise, it was important for people in the Walk to strive to have John's thinking -- sometimes it may have been benign, as in looking at people with the same faith that he was perceived to have. Other times it was "Let me tell you how to think about ..." people who left, people who were under discipline, the elections, husband-wife relationships, raising your children, your finances, shutting down churches, Kingdom businesses, going to seminary, not going to seminary, unequal yokes, pretty much any aspect of a person's life came under the purview of "Let us tell you how to think about this." If you assumed that there was no difference between the leader and the mind of Christ, then you could feel that you were doing exactly what God would have you to do.

There were periods under John when there were weekly marriage checkouts, since an influx of young people had flooded the churches. Then there were other periods where very few marriages took place. Recently there seems to have been an unspoken directive to let as many of the young kids get married as possible lest they go outside the church to try finding a mate. Most of the young people would not think to leave anyway because 90% of their friends are the kids they've grown up with -- better to stay on good terms and be surrounded by your friends than step away to an uncertain world.

Either way, the shepherds still exercise a lot of control over the most personal decisions people can make -- where to live, who to spend your life with, minor things like that. The fact that many of the leaders have personal lives devoid of a healthy personal example does not matter as much as the submission of the sheep to their designated authorities.

They may argue that to be a Christian you must submit every area of your life to Christ and that as Christ's representatives you are yielding to Jesus Christ when you obey their directives -- but that requires a lot of hubris, perhaps tainted with ambition, or other mixed motivations. By cutting people off from their personal relationship with the Lord and mocking their seeking of God as looking to "God in the sky" or "God in your brain" -- they installed themselves as the representatives of Christ-in-the-flesh to whom people had to submit.

To then displease that Christ, or to have her get pissed off at you, or lash out at you, where were you supposed to turn? To God? That's only your brain, trying to dodge the cross. To other members of the congregation? They were trained to shut down and pretend you were invisible if you were under discipline. It's no wonder that people felt like they were being slowly strangled or denied spiritual air in which to breathe.

These types of control are unhealthy, especially when exercised by people whose own personal lives may be in disarray.

I spent a couple of years and 10K+ on professional counseling after leaving TLWF. A few take-aways that may be helpful to others are: 1. TLWF really is a spiritually abusive cult from a professional’s viewpoint (the reason it is on this website) and the emotional trauma I experienced was perfectly normal – I wasn’t going crazy even though I was clinically depressed. 2. The extreme control does not produce maturity but rather immaturity. You need to make decisions for yourself and grow by what you learn from the consequences of those decisions. As you mature, you gradually grow out of another’s control – it’s a normal human growth process. If you fail to mature, you tend to stay under another’s control – something I think the leadership is aware of and utilizes. 3. Our inner still small voice, that most of us trust, can be trained to believe a lie – it’s not always God speaking. For example, the voice that says to a Muslim, “Be a suicide bomber and you get to go to the front of the line in heaven.” He so believes the voice to be true, that he will die following it. Although the counseling I received was helpful, an even more important lesson I learned was that we all need a plumb line to see if our inner voice lines up with Jesus’ teaching. I appreciate his words so much more now than when I was in TLWF. It’s important to read his words for yourself and not just get them second hand.

There are so many wonderful people still in TLWF and the default opinion within the group is that if you disagree with any of the teaching or “words from God”, you are personally attacking the people and obviously in rebellion. I would say the opposite is true. If someone is speeding down a highway and there is a bridge out ahead and you fail to warn them, I would suggest you really don’t care about them. The plumb line is the teachings of Jesus, not John’s word – careful study will reveal that they are not the same. At some point you have to decide if you will take note of Jesus’ warning, “Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, and will deceive many.” He also said, ”At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ! Or, “There he is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect – if that were possible. See I have told you ahead of time.” Jesus was talking about the last times and I think we would be wise to look around and see who is calling themselves the Christ – and especially those that are looking to be obeyed as God. To be quite frank, how well did the obedience in exchange for resurrection life work for John and those that followed him, or is it working for G&M? You can’t give away something you don’t have.

When I first started posting here, not this time, but the first time, back in about 2012, I was looking for an answer. I was wanting to know if the Walk changed when John Stevens got involved with Marilyn, and if he simply got deceived, if perhaps Gary and Marilyn simply didn't get message the "apostle" brought or what. I believe I know the answer now. John Robert Stevens trained Gary and Marilyn. They are the product of his spiritual fathering.

There is one person most responsible for this evil cult, that is the man that created it.

John Robert Stevens.

Larry, Saw and Dog - you guys are so spot on !

Well, I've read every last post on this forum, and perhaps it is counter-intuitive, but I've decided to rejoin TLWF, trusting that Mom & Dad do indeed speak a word from God ...and know what is best for my life. I'm aware that once involved again, I will need to go through a short (hopefully no more than five years) labor-intensive disciplinary program in social isolation...but I trust once I get through it, assuming I am still alive, I will bask in the unconditional acceptance of the Father's family as never before!
(O.K.--this is the best I can do in the sarcasm department today--so please have grace, everyone!!)