FCSLC Wrote:
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> To this day, the Kitchin’s will have nothing to
> do with either the ones who stayed or the ones who
> dropped out of the Walk.
>
> Of course the church was sold, the proceeds
> benefiting who knows who.

The reaction of the Kitchin's is not uncommon...the capacity to trust anyone is so damaged by their experience.

Genesis 1:26-31. Creator God’s original idea/plan/commission to each individual entailing equality, freedom, exploration, blessing, growth and independence.

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I should have asked my designated (minion) shepherd why he felt this great commission to each individual by Creator God was abrogated. I doubt he could have answered intelligently, being schooled only in the cultic “New Testament pattern for submission to divinely appointed authority in the home and in the church” per the manuals and ‘This Weeks’.

(Note: I was just as stupid too. That’s why whenever someone on this forum brings forth something profound, I add it to my “freedom verses list.”)

Did anyone see the episode of “The Hunt with John Walsh” this past week on Victor Barnard and the River Road Fellowship? Victor referred to himself as “Christ in the Flesh” and his followers worked long hours at a camp out in a farming community, isolated from other groups. It seemed strangely familiar - except for his interest in young girls. In fairness, I was never aware of that type of thing taking place in TLWF- at least with young girls. (I once tried to request a concubine at the front desk at Shiloh, but apparently everything printed in the local newspapers was not true.) I was amazed how brainwashed the parents had become to allow such a thing to happen to their daughters and not think something was amiss. As far as TLWF is concerned, there certainly was plenty of Christ in the flesh to go around at Shiloh and if clearing rose bushes indicated proper obedience, I’m sure TLWF would have overcome death by now. I know Marilyn has said that the rebellion of John’s sons killed him – apparently someone got poked one too many times while working in the hot Iowa sun and got a bad spirit. “O what a tangled web we weave….”

FCSLC do you think the following might be a freedom verse.

I wrote down this quote from Rev. Robt Liichow on cults:

"If I can get you to believe that I have been called to hear from God on the behalf of the Church and individuals such as your "needy" self then I can (and often will) absolutely control your life."

Polisigrad observed that among Evangelicals, a JRS prediction that tenants of the Walk would become mainstream seems evident. Well, along with that in the mainstream I think there is an increase in rip offs (like the River Road Fellowship), more folks with voices in their heads saying they are Christ in the flesh, and the Christianity being passed to children and young people doesn't even resemble the Gospel.

FactorFiction: Do you think the young people in TLWF have the take the promised land and possess it mentality? It takes a lot of passion to forsake going to a good college to become an obedient foot soldier, especially when later in life one tries to find employment.

Wow--uncannily familiar. Isolate, and then break them down with endless menial labor/services/meetings etc.--so they will be malleable and at your disposal.
Hey TLWF parents--if you love your kids, spare them this. Don't deliver them over to an environment that is radically exploitative. As a parent, providing protection is one of your main responsibilities.


larry bobo Wrote:
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> Did anyone see the episode of “The Hunt with
> John Walsh” this past week on Victor Barnard and
> the River Road Fellowship? Victor referred to
> himself as “Christ in the Flesh” and his
> followers worked long hours at a camp out in a
> farming community, isolated from other groups.

I think it would be of value for those who have been involved with TLWF to know that John was not mainstream Christianity nor are his ideas now being incorporated into mainstream Christianity. Mainstream Christianity is the teachings of Jesus, not the teachings of the thieves and robbers that would use Jesus as a means to fleece God’s sheep – whether for money or power. Much of the Pentecostal / Latter Rain / Living Word doctrine runs completely opposite to what Jesus taught. (e.g. the greatest in the Kingdom will be the servant of all – not be served by all.) Thieves take the genuine love that the sheep have for God and manipulate the sheep into expressing that love to the leader - in place of God. That’s why they are called a thief – they take what belongs to someone else. The true shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hireling runs when he sees the wolf because he is only in it for a paycheck, not because of genuine love for God’s people. Leaders in TLWF should read these posts - not just to look for ways to sanitize or whitewash themselves in public opinion, but to see how destructive their self-serving methods have been to God’s people - recognizing that someday they will have to give an account.

I remember watching little tidbits of TV evangelists while still in TLWF and thinking everything I’ve heard about “Babylon” is true. I would suggest legitimate mainstream Christianity is equally concerned about leaders who prey on the unsuspecting in hopes of making a buck. I love the quote lily rose posted, “If I can get you to believe that I have been called to hear from God on behalf of the Church and individuals such as your ‘needy’ self then I can (and often will) absolutely control your life.” The Kingdom is hard work and requires focusing on it above all else – it's not a side hobby. Nobody can obey God for you. Most people already know how to take care of their physical bodies – diet, exercise, sleep etc. It’s just that it is work and requires effort. We want a pill that will give us a shortcut to health, just like we want a “leader” to impart God to us without accepting personal responsibility. No new teaching or mediator is needed if we put into practice what Jesus taught. A good place to start is call no man leader, teacher, father - you have one and it's the Christ. I know as a man, the last thing you want to do is read the directions.

Excellent point about John not being mainstream. I recall hearing how his congregations would completely turn over in the early days of Grace Chapel. He couldn't hold a congregation together. They would flee. I think there was a good reason for that. It wasn't until the late 60's that things took hold. As a group of "Jesus freak" hippies discovered John. I'm betting this group wasn't that grounded in the Scriptures and didn't bother to check on things too closely. That would have been too "establishment".

Great clarification above on what is mainstream Christianity vs mainstream TV Evangelists. I remember reading in the LW literature (when I joined the Walk) that I was part of a non denominational new testament church. Seemed anti establishment enough (I was raised Catholic) and the restoration of new testament church practices sounded like a breath of fresh air. At the time, it all appeared harmless and I had no idea that the roots of the LW were founded in Pentecostalism and the Latter Rain movement. In fact I didn't realize that until the last few years.

The different uses of the term evangelical, evangelist, or TV evangelical lead to all sorts of confusion. I found this on the Urban Dictionary and kind of like it:

Evangelical: The Andromeda strain of Christianity. Evangelicals are often mistaken for Protestants; however, the two groups are quite different. Protestantism is based on the idea that people can read and understand the Bible for themselves, without the need of a mediator. In Evangelicalism your minister is the final authority of what the Bible means and it is very important to get this religion directly from him.

Great Posts!!!

lily rose-------I’ve added the quote to my “freedom verses list.” Very useful when delivering oneself from anal “Authority/Submission” freaks.

paleface wrote: “Excellent point about John not being mainstream. I recall hearing how his congregations would completely turn over in the early days of Grace Chapel. He couldn't hold a congregation together. They would flee. I think there was a good reason for that. It wasn't until the late 60's that things took hold. As a group of "Jesus freak" hippies discovered John. I'm betting this group wasn't that grounded in the Scriptures and didn't bother to check on things too closely. That would have been too "establishment".

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What an insightful post. Thankyou paleface. I remember wondering about John Miller, Bowman and others. They were so “sold” on the doctrine. Yet to think Jesus would approve of the way people were being treated made no sense. Paleface’s above explanation is extremely viable.

We had an incredibly uninformed hierarchy brainwashed into enforcing lopsided, aberrant teachings. How did this happen? It wouldn’t have save for the conjunction of crazy times. For those of us who thought God was endorsing the “Walk” because of numbers, no. It can all be explained rationally, no Divine Intervention required.

There is irony: In the end, the anti-establishment hippie Jesus freaks endorsed a hellish establishment far worse than the one they were originally rejecting.