poliscigrad:

In my opinion The Walk and John Robert Stevens used coercive persuasion and influence techniques to make people vulnerable, gain undue influencne and exploit them.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Also see [www.culteducation.com]

And also [www.culteducation.com]

Cult leaders knowingly, or in most cases learn by experience, to use these techniques as tools to manipulate people.

It's the leader's fault not his or her victims. In a sense it's like psychological and/or emotional rape.

I explain this in detail in the book "Cults Inside OUt" within the chapter "Cult Brainwashing," including why people stay when prophecies fail. There are 1,200 research footnotes for further study and support.

See [www.amazon.com]

Dear Moderator,

Thank you for those two links. After skimming them, it seems that they need a closer and more careful reading. The Lifton material is especially interesting.

In my own teaching, I emphasize the skills of critical thinking as defined and developed by Richard Paul at his institute of critical thinking and moral critique at Sonoma State University. [www.criticalthinking.org]

It seems that the Lifton and the Paul materials are mutually reinforcing.

Moderator comment:

After doing some research I came across this article about the Marin County-based Foundation for Critical Thinking, which included the information that it has been referred to as a "cultlike" group.

See [www.courthousenews.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2015 09:53PM by rrmoderator.

poliscigrad:

Thanks for the link.

The point of Lifton, Offshe and Cialdini and my work in the book "Cults Inside Out" is to explain how critical thinking can be subverted by destructive cults.

Specifically both Lifton and Offshe explain how thought reform and/or coercive persuasion can be used by a leader or con man to subvert critical thinking, engender submission and ultimately gain undue influence over people.

Cialdini explains in his book "Influence" how the six basic principles of influence work in society for good or bad. They can be used by a destructive cult leader for bad purposes.

See [www.culteducation.com]

In the book "Cults Inside Out" this research and more is put together and footnoted to explain how people can potentially be manipulated by destructive cults despite their education, history of critical thinking, etc.

The best prevention regarding recruitment by destructive cults is a very focused and specific education about how they work and use these techniques. This knowledge along with critical thinking prepares a person to completely understand how destructive cults operate to can potentially shut down critical thinking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2015 10:39PM by rrmoderator.

Moderator,

Thank you for the third link. Again, all these excerpts deserve a closer and more careful reading. I tend to think of critical thinking as a set of skills on a spectrum of mastery -- white belt to black belt, if you will. Untutored, I think all of us are white belts in critical thinking, and some might be yellow belts. However, a combination of solid liberal arts education, training in statistics, and perhaps philosophy, can become part of the package to elevate one's skills closer to black belt. Or, sadly, it might come from a horrendous experience in a cult where we somehow got our better senses, defected, and then began to learn where we erred.

At this stage in my reflections, it seems to me that paradoxically critical thinking requires a particular act of the will, a commitment to a default mistrust of others. I say "paradoxically" because such a willful commitment is an instantiation of an assumption about others which might very well be underdetermined by available evidence. To the extent it is underdetermined, it is not fully rational to adopt mistrust as a guiding assumption. Nonetheless, it is reasonable to do so. I welcome your thoughts on this matter.

poliscigrad:

Let's not get too off topic here. The topic here is The Walk and John Robert Stevens.

My point is to avoid any sort of victim bashing.

For example, that those conned by a cult leader are somehow guilty and/or duplicit in their victimization.

I have deprogrammed five medical doctors. They all had highly developed critical thinking and analytical skills. Nevertheless they were manipulated and hurt by destructive leaders.

Very specific education about destructive cults coupled with the developement of corresponding and specifically focused critical thinking skills is necessary to avoid such a situation.

Some people may leave one cult and join another, unless they effectively sort through their experience. They can potentially become "cult hoppers."

But when cult victims sort it out and understand the process of coercive persuasion that destructive cults use to gain undue influence, cult victims can effectively inoculate themselves from further involvement with such groups.

Moderator,

Points well taken.

Moderator,

If we can assume that TLWF leaders and congregants read this blog, and if any one of us is targeted for a defamation lawsuit, what legal and financial resources are available to us (besides our own savings accounts) to defray court costs?

Moderator response:

See [forum.culteducation.com]

"Please understand that you are personally responsible for all your comments and actions through this message board."

Having noted that provision in the posted rules if you post anonymously you stay anonymous. One disgruntled company called Landmark Education attempted to legally force disclosure of anonymous users at this message board. That attempt completely failed in the courts and the identify of anonymous users at this message board has never been disclosed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2015 09:49PM by rrmoderator.

I recently had a troubling conversation about Shiloh U. It seems they are marketing to YASPers and also online with Google Ads. They only carry a measly DETC accreditation, but are trumping it up to be the equivalent of a community college degree. This is very misleading, and could have detrimental effects in a few years when credits won't transfer and jobs won't recognize their expensive credentials. Furthermore, if this university suffers the same fate as Southgate, that will be a generation robbed of their potential. Closing a church that the congregants would buy is a tragedy, Shiloh U seems criminal.

Interesting observation FoF. I think if an employee of Shiloh U asked this question, you be fired faster than a New York minute.

Factoverfiction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Closing a church that the congregants
> would buy is a tragedy, Shiloh U seems criminal.

I too think it was a tragedy. One poster on fact net said that JRS wanted to tear the building down and rebuild. Even if that had happened you have heard the phrase location, location, location. The Grace Chapel church that was sold was in a lower income district with potential for the kind of evangelism for which you describe TLWF was told to pray and believe. The congregation that paid off the church were not those who had such high incomes that after they had paid their tithe they still had plenty of money left for whatever. I think in part what made Grace Chapel "something" in my mind was the congregation was made up of "real people" who had to sacrifice to pay off their church. I remember that in the 70's the church organist/head of transcribing and who also worked was know to be contributing most of her salary to keep the church out of the red.

If Shiloh U is participating in programs that offer any kind of federal financial aid to the students, I believe that any irregularities regarding accreditation or false claims regarding transfer credits can be reported to U.S. Department of Education. I'm not sure how one does that but there are regional U.S. Dept of Education offices that can answer questions.

poliscigrad: I remember hearing about a graduation speech by some military hero who told the graduates that the most important thing for them to learn was how to recognize crap (his words not mine). Our education system does a poor job in teaching critical thinking. These days for myself regarding spiritual matters I rely on the NT advice to "test the spirits." I prefer the term prove the spirits or just prove it. If someone says, God, Jesus, or Christ told me this then I say prove it. You related that JRS said that if he were carried out of this place on a stretcher, then it all was false....doesn't that prove it?