Lily Rose,

What I mean is the sense of steering one's life as one wishes and knowing the boundaries of self which are one's own and not "colonized" by another. When I was in the Walk, I wanted to further my education. And so I submitted this desire to the elders for confirmation. They saw no value in further education, and thought a closer connection to Marilyn would be all I needed. They colonized me by denying my agency. The designated relationship with my wife erased my sense of self, and my marriage colonized me. Since I left, I've rolled back the colonizing forces, and my marriage has made great strides in healing. I can direct my life as I see fit, and I can better understand my boundaries.

I hope those examples offer some clarity. If not, I'll try again. :)

Factoverfiction Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can
> confirm that JRS has become more prophet than man
> since the 90s. People would still talk about his
> psychic powers of being able to make everyone in
> the congregation sit down as if a force had seated
> them, other times they'd fall over and wail in the
> spirit.
> People talked about this giddily, like "they
> weren't really supposed to talk about JRS's mystic
> side, or the menehune spirits that guard his
> grave." but it's very much believed that JRS was
> close to "ripping the veil between the spirit
> world and the physical."
> Gary has since spotlighted many mystic spiritual
> gurus like Mahesh Chavdah and even Todd Bentley
> (briefly). They'd be showered with praise, but
> when their purpose of showing the congregation
> that we were "not alone" was up, they'd distance
> themselves from these individuals.
> I've been "slain in the spirit" by Gary, also by
> Mahesh. It's probably got a lot to do with the 4
> hr worship service that precluded it. I sobbed
> uncontrollably, some people went into laughing
> fits. All of us had our faith in Gary's word
> strengthened by the emotional bliss we
> experienced.


I remember I used to like being slain in the spirit but I don't think God had anything to do with it. It's more like the result of a kind of hypnotism one can learn in a "how to" book and not the holy spirit.

I really doubt that JRS was close to ripping the veil between the spirit world and physical world. His ability to tune into and read people was a skill or possibly gift that was not unique to him and by many accounts prone to error. One example is the marriages he arranged under the leading of the holy spirit failed and were a source of sorrow for many who submitted to him.

I read that Todd Bentley claims Jesus told him to stop preaching about Jesus because everyone already knows about Jesus; instead, Bentley claims that Jesus said to preach about the supernatural. Some of these discernment websites are trying to expose these kinds of con artists, but TLWF seems to fly under the radar and I agree with you that this forum and Fact Net are the only records of what is going on in TLWF. So thank you for exposing what you have seen and keep on keeping on.

poliscigrad: Thanks for the clarification. I also googled "agency" and it seem that the fields of sociology and philosophy also in part define it as "free will" which is easily understood by those whose free will was crossed by the LW.

I know I probably said this already, but a big “ah-ha” moment for me was when I heard a teaching by Gary where he said “God gave you a free will. He will never cross your will”. And I started to think about it. “Gosh, God won’t cross my will, but my shepherds and DR sure will and take great delight in doing it, too”. Things started to look a whole lot different after I processed that. : )

Lily Rose and Paleface,

Yes, agency is intrinsically linked with an exercise of "free will." Paleface related one moment where they began to figure out that the Shepherds were doing something God would presumably not do: namely, cross their will. During the summer of 1994, there were many "words" on having one's own walk with God and not conforming to outward practice. I stopped participating publicly in the worship services. When others would begin to sing in the spirit, I just stood there. When others said "amen", I would remain silent. A decisive moment came for me when I was given some small ministry in the church to oversee, and I took the delegation of authority seriously. So, I made an executive decision that this ministry would do something even if G&M were around and might otherwise command its attention. When I was overruled by the local shepherds, I realized I had no real authority, even though I was commissioned in front of the Body. So, I left.

I suspect that no one in the TLWF has any real authority. Gary and Marilyn exercise power, but not true authority. And, as far as I see it, anyone that remains in positions of authority as a pastor, associate pastor, school principal, etc., is complicit in the brute exercise of coercion against the people. I don't care how "good" their "hearts" are: they are guilty of gross malpractice. If there is a final judgment before the seat of Christ, I would not be surprised if the entire TLWF leadership will know intimately what it is like to weep uncontrollably and to grind one's teeth into stubble.

poliscigrad wrote: “I suspect that no one in the TLWF has any real authority. Gary and Marilyn exercise power, but not true authority. And, as far as I see it, anyone that remains in positions of authority as a pastor, associate pastor, school principal, etc., is complicit in the brute exercise of coercion against the people. I don't care how "good" their "hearts" are: they are guilty of gross malpractice. If there is a final judgment before the seat of Christ, I would not be surprised if the entire TLWF leadership will know intimately what it is like to weep uncontrollably and to grind one's teeth into stubble.”

------------------------

“Gross Malpractice” & “Coercion against the people” ------ more direct hits.


MUSIC to my ears!! Thankyou!!

When the only valid interpretation/understanding of scripture is channeled through Marilyn and Gary, was is the point of putting out thousands of dollars for an education from Shiloh University? Save the money, and allow them to continue doing their job of revealing God's thoughts and ways. Let the professionals handle it!

For that matter, throw away your Bibles and only drink from the LW fountain. As they tell the young adults at Shiloh every summer, everything you need is in the current LW literature, and maybe JRS's words as well.

I've heard kids being told to stop reading the Bible. And to stop worshipping the "God in the sky". They are told their relationship with God is now to come thru their "designated relationship".

Yow-zah !

The only time someone would be told to stop reading the bible would be if they find a passage that is causing them to stumble in their walk, (in other words with TLW messages) then it's temporary. Regardless, greater emphasis is put on getting into the "current word," which is literature from JRS, tapes, and videos. Very often, Wednesday services are summations of weekly bible readings that are encouraged. Shiloh U offers Greek and Hebrew courses as well. Members are also encouraged to listen to tapes daily, and study first principles and other lit weekly. There's an overload of information, and the vast majority of it is filtered through TLW material. Though bible courses are studied often, apologetics are discouraged. If you struggle with a concept, the answer is always to point you to the "current word."


If the bible is vague or contradictory, TLW material is far worse. More questions arise, and ultimately, your shepherd may pray with you to find an answer (AKA phone their shepherd). You'll either agree with your shepherd, or be told to read some more books. Shepherds are usually told not to argue anymore.

So while all this may seem like an environment rich in biblical precedent, it is very controlled.

FactoverFiction,

Do the Shiloh University instructors have to be believers or part of the fellowship? (My Dad believed that all university professors were leftist communists.)

Anything in particular that caused you to leave the fellowship? (If I am poking my nose too much here I understand if you don't want to respond.)

@LilyRose
All but a couple are part of the fellowship. The others most likely have higher salaries.

I left because I had the ability to travel a lot, and each time I came back I realized the universal existence of the things the church claimed were unique to their fellowship. I think the deciding point for me was when I eavesdropped on an APCO meeting that was restricted. I heard Gary yelling at the pastors, saying, "Admit it, the reason we don't have evangelism in this church is because you don't want it." I realized then that even though we prophesied and forced our minds to believe that people were going to start pouring into our services and recognize the "mantle we carried" - our "unique gifts of prophesy, worship, and intercession." -- that it was never gonna happen. The church leadership didn't really want that. I don't know if anyone wanted that. I think one part of being in a cult is the sense of security with having a nice little ecosystem where there's a clear sense of position and control. It's also tiny enough to believe they're God's remnant that are changing the world with their dedication to serve their "mama and papa."

Since I've left, I've tried to deconstruct everything TLW laid claim to in my mind. Talking to others that have left has been the most healing. One major part of leaving any cult is feeling like you're a misfit, like there's something wrong with you, and because of the habitual self-doubt of a shepherding relationship, it's been easy to feel like it was my fault I left.

It doesn't help that when I returned a shepherd laid hands on me in a service, saying "We bless you. We love you (WE LOVE YOU. *Cheering, amens*), and we forgive you. You have nothing to be ashamed of anymore, the battle in your life made you stumble, but we break that battle, we break whatever was keeping you from coming back and walking with us."
Luckily, I'd found the forums and support, or those words would've sucked me back like a vacuum.