The pope is just the "flavor of the month". We could make a list of all the "prophetic" fails tlwc aka the walk aka ctlw aka "this thing" has experienced.
Here are just a few:
The silver mine.Gathering wheat and honey for survival. (Yep, I went along to get along with that one).The little people, Joels Army,and the third generation. Also wasn't R,S,& R supposed to take over show business? The law office was going to rule the legal world. What ever happened to Golden Threads? Fineline Graphics? Impact? All of these were important in their day, but there was/is something in the hearts and thinking of the members of the living word fellowship, that exaggerates their standing in the world.

Given enough time the things that are not from the Father eventually fade away.

Yes, there has always been a hubris at the Living Word. They think of themselves as the "Green Berets" of the Christian World. The ones on the front line. The ones making it all happen. The ones blazing the new trail in the spirit. They just hope someday, someone will take notice.

After all, it was John Stevens that took Satan down when he died, right?

paleface Wrote:
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> Yes, there has always been a hubris at the Living
> Word. They think of themselves as the "Green
> Berets" of the Christian World. The ones on the
> front line. The ones making it all happen. The
> ones blazing the new trail in the spirit. They
> just hope someday, someone will take notice.
>
> After all, it was John Stevens that took Satan
> down when he died, right?

And that may be the biggest fail of them all. "We want our father back!" How'd that work out for tlwf? Bringing JRS back from the dead, either physically or spiritually, is what drove so many to leave or be kicked out of the walk. What do the aforementioned examples have to do with Chirst being formed in us. Nothing!

I also struggled with many of the unfulfilled “prophecies“of TLWF, as well as the cover-ups when they did not happen. “John would not have died except for the rebellion of his sons.” In other words, “It was your fault, not mine – I’m infallible”. And who were they rebellious against? “Christ in the Flesh - Me”. The arrogance of that thinking is mind boggling. The true God’s words always come to pass. I would suggest it was never a word from God in the first place – no need to blame anyone. (Deut. 18:20-22) “If they carry me out feet first, this was not a word from God” is what John had to say about it. Apparently, every word he spoke was true except that one. Those that want to take the place of God constantly have to make up excuses to maintain control over other people’s lives and keep up the illusion of supernatural direction.

Perhaps they might listen to their new friend, Pope Francis: “In Christmas, God reveals Himself not as one who stands above and who dominates the universe, but as He who lowers Himself. It means that to be like Him, we do not have to place ourselves above the others, but come down, come down and serve them, become small among the small, and poor among the poor. It’s a bad thing when one sees a Christian that does not want to come down, a Christian that uses everything to show off. Not nice, eh? That is not Christian, that is paganism.” Pope Francis is creating quite the stir by just putting into action the words of Jesus we’ve had from the beginning. I suspect that there are those in the Catholic hierarchy that hate him, just as those do in every “church” structure when their position is questioned.

When many of the Walk predictions did not come to pass, I wrote a letter to Apco about it. Although I did not hear back from Apco personally, the local shepherds were directed to remove me from all involvement in leadership and not allow me to speak in services. I was basically placed in quarantine until I learned not to question authority. I questioned such things as John being taken seven years into the future and seeing the dawning of the kingdom in 1979. The date came and went and nothing changed. I guess I thought the kingdom would be more than John speaking into a tape recorder in the middle of the night – even if it seemed to be insightful at the time. There were many things John predicted in the 70’s that just did not happen, e.g. economic collapse, the need for survival supplies etc. I was not only asking for myself, but for others who were asking me. I could not in good conscious say that these “words” were true.

I noticed a pattern that if you questioned something while it was taking place, you were considered rebellious and often removed from the fellowship. After the fact, the leadership would concede mistakes had been made in the past, but those problems had now been corrected and you were now expected to blindly submit to directives as a word from God. "If you are submissive, God will work it out - even if the shepherd is wrong". What actually happened is that hundreds of lives were trashed and now most want nothing to do with God at all. They believed God had wounded them and yet nothing could be further from the truth. The cycle would repeat itself with a new set of “perfect shepherds” who later would become the new false shepherds when things went south once again. Those that were directing the actions of the false shepherds never faced the light of day and their only accountability was to get rid of those who “did not have their spirit”. Those false shepherds were nothing more than an insulation layer to cover up the real problem. The truth is they were all men with frailties and should have never been taking the place of God in the first place. Perhaps these posts can save someone 30 years of heartache and a twisted view of God. He is so much better than we could ever even imagine!

In our society, there are certain types of people that seem to naturally become bullies. Were they always bullies, or did certain situations cause them to become bullies? Can an environment bring out and nuture the bully nature. In the Living Word, Gary and Marilyn certainly display bully type natures. And they collect similar people around them to be their hatchet men (and women). I've known certain people who were kind and gentle when they were just sheep in the church but became mean while serving G&M. Were they always closet bullies, or did "learning Marilyn's thinking" turn them into bullies? We'll never know for sure. Does the shepherding position in the LW attract those that enjoy being a bully to sheep? I think so. This certainly can't be the heart of God.

larry bobo wrote: “John would not have died except for the rebellion of his sons.” In other words, “It was your fault, not mine – I’m infallible”.

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I have lived in Salt Lake City all my life. Over the years I’ve attended a dozen or so LDS (Mormon) viewings/funerals. Not one time has anybody been angered or even expressed concern about resurrection life. Moreover, the audience/congregation has never been accused of being responsible for the death of the individual due to rebellion or a lack of submission or some other imperfection.

What I have heard over and over again is, “God has called them to a better place” or “They have moved on to a better place.”

If what they say is true then maybe, just maybe-------JRS didn’t/doesn’t want to come back.

It is interesting that those who have reportedly resurrected don’t seem to hang around too long before getting out of Dodge again of their own free will.

Both larry bobo and paleface have nailed it-------the freaking bullies need “whipping boys/girls” to vent their frustrations upon when the Universe Itself shows no regard for their lofty/petty plans.

Poor bullies------it’s so sad.

larry bobo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> When many of the Walk predictions did not come to
> pass, I wrote a letter to Apco about it. Although
> I did not hear back from Apco personally, the
> local shepherds were directed to remove me from
> all involvement in leadership and not allow me to
> speak in services. I was basically placed in
> quarantine until I learned not to question
> authority.

I experienced something similar, coincidentally after jokingly questioning my pastor's ability to steer the lives of the sheep while intoxicated, and once suggesting Rick might be benefiting from some favoritism. In my case, I was demoted from a shepherd (after serving seven years) to a set-aside elder. Furthermore, I was directed to turn pages for the pianist or organist during church services (six a week at the time), a role that lasted over a year. In addition, I was put in charge of all the maintenance of the church facility, which meant that much of my 'free time'--after services, running my own small business to support my family & helping raise a couple kids--was spent laboring on the facility and organizing/directing work groups. And if this wasn't enough, I was expected to work on other church facilities, along with the N. Hollywood home of the Hargraves and next-door rental--which I did. This was over a five year period.
My level of penance/commitment did eventually enable me to rise back to shepherd status, but by that time my enthusiasm for TLWF and everything it represented had severely waned. I knew my days were numbered. In spring of '97 I called it quits. About a year after I left I heard the church was sold. What happened to the proceeds of the sale? I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if it went into an account controlled by the Hargraves...in spite of the fact that they visited the church sparingly (3-4 days) during the years I was there.

larry bobo wrote: “I was basically placed in quarantine until I learned not to question authority."

paleface wrote: “Does the shepherding position in the LW attract those that enjoy being a bully to sheep? I think so. This certainly can't be the heart of God.”

changedagain wrote: “In my case, I was demoted from a shepherd.” & “Not allow me to speak in services.”

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I COR 2:9 --- “Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man, all that God has prepared for those who love Him.”

Quarantines, Demotions, Gag Orders: The above scripture is truly fulfilled--------Who even suspected for a moment that these things had been prepared for us!

When it comes to surprises, the TLWF version of the Kingdom of God is right at the top. In fact, the movie “Shawshank Redemption” comes to mind. Being a member of TLWF is no different than being imprisoned in Shawshank, and the Kingdom of God can be likened to anything outside those prison walls.

So good to be rid of the [[ ball and chain/distorted view of God ]].

Quote : Changedagain

What happened to the proceeds of the sale? I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if it went into an account controlled by the Hargraves...

ChangedAgain, In answer to your question, I was told by,

A member of the S.G Church who was active at the time the S.G. church was sold, told me that they approached the overseeing shepherd of the S.G. church and asked him when was a new church property going to be purchased for the people to be able to meet together. They had been under the impression that S.G. was being sold because it was no longer safe to meet there and that the proceeds from the sale would be used to buy another property in a safe area. The member was told in no uncertain terms that it was Marilyn's money and that the money from the sale of the property was put into the Marilyn trust fund.

Quote Invisible: “The member was told in no uncertain terms that it was Marilyn's money and that the money from the sale of the property was put into the Marilyn trust fund.”

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I suspect the “good chunk of change” from the sale of the Salt Lake City Church went into the same account.

I slaved away in a blue-collar job to pay my tithes, thinking it was for God. The money trail can certainly lead a person to a bitter feeling--------best not to go there in my case. I think I’ll go and have a good shot of Canadian Mist Whiskey and think about freedom instead.