The sooner each of us return to Jesus’ commands as a plumb line, the easier it will be to sort out what in TLWF is of God and what is not. In the Great Commission, Jesus sent out his disciples to make more disciples by teaching them to obey everything that he had commanded them. So many churches have added extra stuff that they want to pass off as the teachings of Jesus. In my Baptist upbringing it was “Don’t smoke, drink, dance, go to movies, or play cards” – none of which is included in Jesus commands. In TLWF, it was John’s word and that he was the door opener to what Jesus was unable to provide by His death on the cross alone. You can’t give resurrection life to someone else if they submit to you if you do not have it personally to give. In case you haven't noticed, John did not possess resurrection life - he died.

Too bad we don't hang on to the words of Jesus with the same tenacity that we held on to John's words that were supposed to have come from Jesus and given us a special place in the Kingdom - high above everybody else. The true high place in the Kingdom is being the servant of all - a bit of a bummer to the old nature, but life to the new nature. Every “Christian”cult claims the work of Jesus is incomplete without the teaching of their particular leader. These added teachings always lead to a big mess and don’t bring us into the personal love relationship with Him that He intended. Instead, we end up in bondage to a God substitute and spiritually wounded. To those who have become disillusioned with what they thought was Jesus, I would suggest giving one tenth the obedience to the real Jesus you gave to a thief who was only using and discarding you, and see what happens. One step in His direction and you will be amazed at His love and faithfulness. This walk really is too good to be true - just like we signed up for at the beginning.

Something to think about:

Romans 5 - Never the less, Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had ( not ) sinned.

Many of us have grown old and other's we know and love are following close behind those who are nearing, the end of their lives.

Are we not dying one by one and as we bury one another - do we not hold fast to believing that our loved one is yet alive even though they have died? Through out the history of man , All but most of all men even today , lay their dead to rest, believing they are alive.

Why do you believe those you love, yet live? Who told you that life is forever? Why did men through out all the generation from the beginning of when death came into the world pass on to one another though out all the generations - the hope of life?

Where did this hope of life come from - that all men are comforted in, when those they love, die?

John died and we still believed - to live forever with out having to die, because a man spoke to us, out of the Scriptures that Christ had conquered and had over come every thing for us, for ( all men) who believed God , and on His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

Men of Science are themselves trying to conquer death and disease through research and knowledge. And men have been looking for the fountain of youth since history began to be written. Who told them they could live forever? What drives them to overcome death? Why do they continue to press forward to search for and to find a way to live forever?

So then, why do we be little, mock or think to shame ( faith ) - in matters such as this?

"Martha then said to Jesus, Lord if you had been here my brother would not have died. Even now I know that what ever you ask God, God will give it to you. Jesus said to her, Your brother will rise again. Martha said to Him, I know he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day. Jesus said to her, I Am the resurrection and the life, he who believe in Me, will live even if he dies and every one who believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" John 11: 21-26

Next, the Father heard Jesus speaking out loud to Him and The Father answered Jesus , raising Lazarus from the dead but after Jesus ascended in to heaven and the Father seated Him at His right hand - there are many accounts written of how those who had died, were also raised from the dead and presented alive, back to those, who loved them.

We do not yet understand what we need to understand.

Who understands the meaning of what Jesus asked ? When the Son of man comes, will He find faith?

Invisible:

The rules of this message board prohibit preaching.

This thread is about The Walk/Living Word Fellowship and its leader John Robert Stevens.

If you have a biblical reference that pertains directly to the subject explain that in your post, otherwise please refrain from quoting scripture.

This message board is not about beliefs, but rather the behavior of certain groups and leaders that have hurt people.

Stay on topic.

I was recruited into the “Walk” in 1970 by a girl I met at a party. The first church meeting I attended was one that took place when John Stevens was visiting SLC. I was totally impressed. Up until maybe 1980 the Walk was great; friends, fellowship, bible learning, intensity and much fun in general.

As time went by new shepherds were put in charge in SLC and things started getting weird. Long time members started dropping out. By the time John died, there seemed to be an undercurrent that didn’t witness for many of us. “The Line is Drawn” message was stressed over and over at nearly every meeting. Get a revelation of your shepherd; over and over again.

Speculation:

Things shifted from a personal walk that stressed, “The Kingdom of God is Within You” to a situation where the shepherd himself on a human level was the kingdom. The shepherd (his own personality) was deity for you.

How crazy is that??? It was obvious to many that some shepherds were walking in a cerebral shortsightedness rather than a transcendental intelligence. (It’s hard to submit to mediocrity)

Much devastation took place; SLC membership dropped by two thirds. Any independent spiritual life was hunted down and labeled as rebellion because it was on the other side of “The Line that was Drawn”.

Shepherd’s personality versus the sheep’s personality was the battlefield. I stayed too long and got crushed------simply outnumbered. My world was crushed. My personality was injured.

This message board has helped. The posts bring to light much garbage. Enough garbage to make you feel good about being gone!! (liberation)

I’m not happy about the way it went down, but it’s beyond anyone’s control.

I reject the theology of “deifying human shepherds.”

I accept the mystical/transcendental idea of “The Kingdom of God is Within You.”

Quote
FCSLC
Much devastation took place; SLC membership dropped by two thirds. Any independent spiritual life was hunted down and labeled as rebellion because it was on the other side of “The Line that was Drawn”.

Shepherd’s personality versus the sheep’s personality was the battlefield. I stayed too long and got crushed------simply outnumbered. My world was crushed. My personality was injured.
”

Anyone that could have served and protected people from the heavy-handed authoritarian tactics of Marilyn, Gary and 'ministries' under their command, were pressured out of the fellowship, after first being shamed in some way before the congregation. Some of the ones I most respected met this fate. My only regret, as you mentioned, is that I stayed too long...ignoring the reality of their abuse, buying into the deception that they somehow channeled God...you know, that aspect of God that is unacceptable...in line with all those messages of how difficult it is to relate to 'the Father' because of how repulsive our human nature is to him. That kind of garbage.
I suspect if 'the Father' is repulsed, it's more likely because he doesn't care for a few people living in relative luxury to the rest of the congregation, establishing themselves as plumb lines of dedication and spirituality, and bullying those who represent a threat to them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2013 07:48PM by changedagain.

I have heard many longtime members say, "Things are really different now."

I have not heard any of them say that Gary & Marilyn have brought messages from the pulpit apologizing for all the hell they inflicted on people as they were working through their anger issues and coming to grips with where they wanted to take the fellowship after John's death.

What seems to be different is that Gary got a theology degree from a seminary, and many of his messages today are more in line with what was once called traditional Christianity. Because John expounded the Scriptures well, many of the fundamental principles of Christianity are reflected in the messages Gary brings.

What has not changed is the hierarchical structure of the group and the destructive vindictiveness that can be turned against people at a moment's notice. The outbursts of the Larsons in San Diego are one example of this. Other women -- often pastors wives -- who called themselves "Marilyn's women" sought to imitate her ruthlessness and lack of "sympathy" by ripping into those who just didn't get with the program.

Shepherds are still rewarded with titles or influence based on the way they are perceived as being the most loyal -- or in some cases ruthless -- promoters of Gary & Marilyn's authority.

The other thing that has changed is the marketing of the church to appear less cultish, but marketing alone can't remove the stench of intrigue, coverup, lack of transparency and manipulative relationships.

There are still many young people in the group and perhaps there's been a decision to take away the decades old policy of severely scrutinizing every potential marriage relationship because they may have realized that one of the biggest drives most of the remaining young people have is to find a mate. Better to get them married in the church than wander out into "the world" and find someone who might look at this 60-year-old cult and go, "This is too weird." But if all their "friends" weren't in the church and it wasn't such a supportive and sheltered echo chamber, or if they had experienced much life apart from the group, many of them wouldn't feel compelled to stay.

"sheltered echo chamber". I like that. Very accurate. Well said, Saw.

Quote: saw enough: 10/24/2013

“What has not changed is the hierarchical structure of the group and the destructive vindictiveness that can be turned against people at a moment's notice.”


The unchanging LWF Shepherd = one who commandeers worship, adulation and obedience from little ones (underlings) --- seminary or no seminary.

If you are in the LA Living Word church, you better love Halloween:

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