Rswinters, it seems you have resorted to personal attacks against me, and you have also misquoted me on a range of issues.
This is no way to have a rational discussion.
While you are waiting for the moderator, perhaps you could provide some quotes to back up the following claims that you made, before I joined in this conversation:
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I have picked up a [b:f7c7e71fc5]very strong sense of bashing any and everything called Christian on this website. [/b:f7c7e71fc5]I have been refraining from commenting in the past.
I chose to respond to this attitude that I have been picking up over the past few months in some members on this site...
I have been holding my tongue on this website over the past couple of months as a I have been reading some very strong bashing of Christianity.
[b:f7c7e71fc5]Bashing, and not critical analysis. [/b:f7c7e71fc5]Because [b:f7c7e71fc5]I can deal with critical analysis of Christianity.[/b:f7c7e71fc5] Bashing is not needed, and in my opinion is not appropriate in posts.
You did not bash Christianity, yet I responded from the past couple of months as I have read some posts that bashed Christianity and held my tongue.
Can you please provide quotes as proof of "very strong, severe christianity bashing...over several months... from some member[b:f7c7e71fc5]s [/b:f7c7e71fc5]of this site"? Note that these need to be from posts made [i:f7c7e71fc5]before[/i:f7c7e71fc5] you made these statements, in order for these statements to be valid.
False accusations of christianity-bashing (or any other religion-bashing) is a sign of religious intolerance and leads to further religious intolerance.
It is ludicrous to accuse this site of supporting christianity-bashing when your pro-christian posts have been so well tolerated.
To be sure there is no confusion on this issue, here is a definition of "bash" from dictionary.com:
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bash
–verb (used with object)
1. to strike with a crushing or smashing blow.
2. Chiefly British, Canadian. to hurl harsh verbal abuse at.
Please also note that general statements in favour of atheism or agnosticism or other religions, or general critical analysis of religion as a whole, does not constitute anti-[i:f7c7e71fc5]christianity[/i:f7c7e71fc5] sentiment. Please note the emphasis on christianity.
If you can provide the relevant quotes proving that there is christianity-bashing on this site, I will gladly admit that I am wrong on this issue.
Leaving aside the orbitting teapots - a very good comparison - I have not claimed to have proof that god does [b:f7c7e71fc5]not[/b:f7c7e71fc5] exist or even stated that god does not exist. What I have said is: there is no scientific proof of god's existence; belief in god is a matter of faith. The bible says the same thing, so I don't know why you're arguing this point. The reason faith is called faith, is because it [i:f7c7e71fc5]is[/i:f7c7e71fc5] faith.
Definition of faith from dictionary.com:
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Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.
Definition of science from dictionary.com:
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systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation...knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through the scientific method and concerned with the physical world and its phenomena
If you can't see the difference then perhaps we are not speaking the same language.
You have every right to post about your faith in the context of LGATs. You have been doing so for months and neither I, nor any other person, has objected.
I [i:f7c7e71fc5]have[/i:f7c7e71fc5] said:
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think it might be a nice program for people who are happily christian but not for non-christians unless they would like to be converted.
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Faith is a marvellous thing. Many people take great comfort in all kinds of different gods and beliefs - but I don't see its relevance to lgats and deprogramming and the correction of false beliefs (unless you are deprogramming from religious fundamentalist / fanatical beliefs to more mainstream religious beliefs)
I also think religious groups can help recover from lgats, as a way of getting in touch with their "old self" for people who held the same religious beliefs before the LGAT - but I don't think its a good idea for people to swop religions or take on new religions while vulnerable and trying to recover from an LGAT.
Please stop misquoting me and putting words in my mouth.
You have every right to discuss your faith in context of LGATs.
You do not have the right to make false accusations of christianity-bashing.
You do not have the right to flame me with personal insults and name calling, like "arrogant" "cynical" "must be an advocate" and "you have to be right" and insinuating that I am angry, stuck and out of check, just because I disagree with you.
You do not have the right to promote your religion by preaching about, for example, how Jesus died for your sins on the cross, which is totally off-topic, by making false claims for scientific proof of the validity of christianity and by insulting people who say they're not interested in christian courses and express viewpoints different to yours.
Is this an example of the critical thinking skills and true beliefs they teach on the Genesis Program?
You still have not responded to any of the non-religious questions I asked about this course.
You also claim this addiction recovery course should be judged by its fruits:
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I challenge you on this attitude of dismissing an organization just because it has Christian attached to it as The Genesis Process does.
Get critical, and look at the fruit, and results of what this organization is about, and is doing.
There is another addiction-recovery course called Narconon, that claims to have excellent results in addiction treatment. Its run by Scientology, using Scientology principles. Should we judge this one purely by its fruits too?
And no, I'm not suggesting christianity is a cult, or that the Genesis Program is a cult. I'm just saying that "good fruit" is not the only criteria for assessing a program.
Rs, I am happy for you that you have found a program that is helping you to recover from an LGAT. As I said before, I have no anomisity towards you, I'm only disagreeing with your ideas.