The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 14, 2007 07:42AM
Quote
"SaneAgain"
Leaving aside the orbitting teapots - a very good comparison - I have not claimed to have proof that god does [b:e002f3dd1e]not[/b:e002f3dd1e] exist or even stated that god does not exist. What I have said is: there is no scientific proof of god's existence; belief in god is a matter of faith. The bible says the same thing, so I don't know why you're arguing this point. The reason faith is called faith, is because it [i:e002f3dd1e]is[/i:e002f3dd1e] faith.Quote
There is scientific evidence. You choose to discount it, just as I choose to discount the evidence that shows there is no God.
You have made this topic thread your own personal vindetta agianst faith.
All I did in creating this was offer a tool that has helped me, and is helping me in my being deprogrammed from an LGAT.
I linked full disclosure links on what this tool is fully disclosing what it does, and what it uses.
I left it up to readers to choose what they did with information. I have not promoted anything. I offered information for people to read, including links to reveal all about this organization.
SaneAgian. Why can't you take responsibility for how you made it a personal issue with faith vs Science.
I am not a debater, and I hate to debate. I get to emotional, and do not handle myself well in a debate.
I offered information here. what is done with it is up to the reader.
This organization is helping me tremendously in recovering from Klemmer & Associates.
What you all do with this information is your choice.
I am done with this debate. I would love to be able to post how, and why this organization is helping me. I would love to share how it is helping me deal with the past trauma in my life that set me up to be drawn into an LGAT that promised a life that was free from the emotional pain associated with this past trauma in my life.
But, I will not share it in an atmosphere that I am not allowed to share about my faith that is at the core of who I am.
If people can't read my posts and seperate out what they want. Just as I read the many posts with elements that I don't agree with.
Then my relationship with this website is done.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 14, 2007 09:30AM
SaneAgain. I am not ignoring your demands for proof on science and faith being the same, or not. I just recognize you want to debate an unsolvable debate on these two opposing views.
Here are two links that I got from doing just a fast search on Creation and Science. You can do your own searches for various links that are out there supporting various websites with credible information discussing the validity of science and faith being the same.
[emporium.turnpike.net]
[www.campuscrusade.com]
I am not going to waste my time linking scientific evidence that all you want to do is debate it with links that oppose it. You can do your own searches on this matter and get into debates with those who want to debate them. I am not that person.
Rick as stated that promoting a religious view, or organization is not allowed to be done.
So stop promoting that faith and science are not the same. It is a belief and can be seen as a religion as well in having a belief in something.
A belief in God, or not a belief in God is still a belief. A belief that faith and science are not the same, as well as faith and science are the same are both beliefs.
One view should not dominate another. Otherwise it is promoting one religion over another.
Even scientists can’t agree on many things that have nothing to do with faith. Does that mean science is not correct since they have strong contradictions within the ranks of scientists?
Who gets to define what scientific evidence is looked at, and what scientific evidence is not looked at?
It seems you want to be the one that determines what is, and is not accepted as scientific evidence.
Here are two links that I got from doing just a fast search on Creation and Science. You can do your own searches for various links that are out there supporting various websites with credible information discussing the validity of science and faith being the same.
[emporium.turnpike.net]
[www.campuscrusade.com]
I am not going to waste my time linking scientific evidence that all you want to do is debate it with links that oppose it. You can do your own searches on this matter and get into debates with those who want to debate them. I am not that person.
Rick as stated that promoting a religious view, or organization is not allowed to be done.
So stop promoting that faith and science are not the same. It is a belief and can be seen as a religion as well in having a belief in something.
A belief in God, or not a belief in God is still a belief. A belief that faith and science are not the same, as well as faith and science are the same are both beliefs.
One view should not dominate another. Otherwise it is promoting one religion over another.
Even scientists can’t agree on many things that have nothing to do with faith. Does that mean science is not correct since they have strong contradictions within the ranks of scientists?
Who gets to define what scientific evidence is looked at, and what scientific evidence is not looked at?
It seems you want to be the one that determines what is, and is not accepted as scientific evidence.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 14, 2007 09:40AM
SaneAgian. Why are you so dogmatic in keeping this debate stuck. I don't want to debate. I want to share how this organization is helping me.
How it is, and why it is. I want to share it in a manner that lets the reader choose what they do with my sharing.
It is simple SaneAgian. Stop demanding that this debate continue. Let another member have the freedom to share a view that may help those who read it. Or it may not. It is up to the readers to choose which they choose.
I don't care that you hold a view that science and faith are not the same.
I hold a view that they are the same.
I am referencing an organization only because of how it has helped me. I am not promoting it. I am presenting the information and giving links to full disclosure of it.
How you choose to interpret this is your choice. Why not let others have the freedom to choose how they interpret it that may be different than your views on this matter you brought up. Which is not what I was promoting, or trying to promote here.
If Rick chooses to interpret my posts as promoting faith based organizations and delete these posts, or ultimately ban me for my posts.
Then so be it. But, I will stand on stating that I am not promoting faith. Because I am just as much making statements that are just as valid as those who make posts that state the opposite views on faith.
At this point. I prefer not to remain a member if I am not able to make posts that have faith elements in them, while posts are allowed that oppose faith without having the same standard applied to these posts.
Yes it is a paradox isn't it?
Do we live in a land of freedom? Or not?
How it is, and why it is. I want to share it in a manner that lets the reader choose what they do with my sharing.
It is simple SaneAgian. Stop demanding that this debate continue. Let another member have the freedom to share a view that may help those who read it. Or it may not. It is up to the readers to choose which they choose.
I don't care that you hold a view that science and faith are not the same.
I hold a view that they are the same.
I am referencing an organization only because of how it has helped me. I am not promoting it. I am presenting the information and giving links to full disclosure of it.
How you choose to interpret this is your choice. Why not let others have the freedom to choose how they interpret it that may be different than your views on this matter you brought up. Which is not what I was promoting, or trying to promote here.
If Rick chooses to interpret my posts as promoting faith based organizations and delete these posts, or ultimately ban me for my posts.
Then so be it. But, I will stand on stating that I am not promoting faith. Because I am just as much making statements that are just as valid as those who make posts that state the opposite views on faith.
At this point. I prefer not to remain a member if I am not able to make posts that have faith elements in them, while posts are allowed that oppose faith without having the same standard applied to these posts.
Yes it is a paradox isn't it?
Do we live in a land of freedom? Or not?
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 14, 2007 09:47AM
SaneAgian. I am also not going to dig into past posts on this forum to show you posts that are showing my claim of bashing.
Because it is very clear that any posts that I reference on this matter will be debated by you in such a powerful way.
You obviously love to debate and are very good at it. I do not love to debate, and am lousy at it.
This interaction between us proves it. As far as debating goes. You have cleaned my clock on the matter.
You are clearly the winner in this debate between us. You have won the battle but lost the war.
I will not remain on a site so biased agianst faith that any and all reference to it is so ruthessly attacked.
I will state on the way out this last point.
Your promoting a belief just as much as you are stating I am promoting a belief.
It looks like this website will let your belief rule as the one that wins out.
To bad there could not be an allowance of both. Which would leave it up to a reader to choose what to believe, or not.
Because it is very clear that any posts that I reference on this matter will be debated by you in such a powerful way.
You obviously love to debate and are very good at it. I do not love to debate, and am lousy at it.
This interaction between us proves it. As far as debating goes. You have cleaned my clock on the matter.
You are clearly the winner in this debate between us. You have won the battle but lost the war.
I will not remain on a site so biased agianst faith that any and all reference to it is so ruthessly attacked.
I will state on the way out this last point.
Your promoting a belief just as much as you are stating I am promoting a belief.
It looks like this website will let your belief rule as the one that wins out.
To bad there could not be an allowance of both. Which would leave it up to a reader to choose what to believe, or not.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 14, 2007 10:11AM
Quote
The Anticult
The problem is if a certain group simply says that they have found The Secret direct from God, and its true because God said so in a certain book.
So any type of therapy program, needs to be done in a open, testable, scientific manner, where the results can be analyzed objectively.
In terms of psychological health, a good marker is to be able to agree to disagree, and see things from the others person's perspective, and to be able to look at it from all sides, before making a judgement call.
But from the look of things in this world, that is not near as much fun as claiming to know the Absolute Truth direct from God.
This is a very good aspect. How about applying it to the view of absolute no truth from God as it seems SaneAgain wants to make it.
This organization states up front it may not work for all. I have not even stated this. It has been assumed that I have said this.
This organization is using science as a very strong element of how it functions in helping its clients get out of destructive addictions.
There is a very strong aspect of neurological aspects that is based soundly on what has been discovered within the scientific realm of the human brain and how it functions.
The debate over faith as deluded this thread from being able to look at this scientfic connection that is very at the core of what is making it helpful in dealing with addictions.
LGAT's deal with the same area within peoples brains. That is why this has been so helpful for me in my deprogramming.
The neurological connections has been the part that has been the most helpful for me.
It is also the part that I was hoping to address in posts before I was pulled into a debate with SaneAgain on faith vs science as his choice to drive the focus on this topic.
I wanted to address the scientific element of neurological aspects that this organization is using to help addicts recover.
There is much similarities to the neurological aspects that draw participants into an LGAT that could be discussed in a intelligent discussion if we can get this topic thread on track to this aspect that I created it to be.
I am sorry I got hooked into this unsolveable debate with SaneAgian.
I want to discuss this Organizations tools without promoting it. I apologize for enthusiasm in how I worded the topic thread.
I am finding out the hard way. How Faith is a bad word on this site, and any reference to it also.
If we can get this topic thread on track and discuss how this organization is using scientific information from the neurological brain angle.
I believe we can have a healthy conversation on this matter.
I am going to ingore SaneAgian and his attempt to debate his views.
I am going to post in a manner from now on which will reflect the true nature of why I started this topic.
So, I may not post that often as I will be trying to keep myself from getting engaged in the unsolveable debate that is being addressed here.
I will get my thoughts together, and come back later and share from the scientific angle as I intended to do in the first place.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 14, 2007 01:36PM
During the training that I went through in this last week on The Genesis Process.
We covered Neurochemistry and how it affects brain by looking at some scientific data on brain chemistry.
For me the part that stood out was the aspect of Serotonin and how it affects the brain chemistry and what emotions are affected by this chemical.
I used to take Zoloft for about 5 years and got to a place that it was no longer needed and my doctor had me stop taking it.
That was about 8 years ago. What was brought up and really hit me in this part of the training. Serotonin is a chemical that is released in the brain to suppress emotions.
As I am facing the trauma of my childhood in professional therapy. It is making sense to me how come Zoloft worked as well as it did for me. I could not deny the difference Zoloft made in my dealing with my emotions back then. I actually found out what being normally calm felt like. My normal calm previously was extremely agitated on a constant basis.
My LGAT experience in Klemmer & Associates as I was told that I was at cause for what I attracted in my life, and that I could keep negative from coming at me from others, and all the other temporary mind/emotion numbing teachings that are taught in LGAT’s.
It all made sense to me as to why I was so prime to be lured into an LGAT as I am facing the extreme emotional damage in me from my past.
Just like serotonin that my past use of Zoloft did in my brain and how I handled my emotions. My experience in Klemmer & Associates was a temporary thing that pushed back my emotions from the front of my brain to the back and unseen by me.
I realized that all my Klemmer & Associates LGAT experience did was to put a temporary bandage over my emotional landscape that is hurting from past trauma in my life.
Now after my training last week in this process called Genesis. I am more committed than ever to dealing with the emotional damage from my past in Professional counseling.
I no longer want a band aid, or quick fix for my emotional pain. I want to bring healing to the pain so I don’t fall victim to such messed up things as an LGAT in my life ever again.
This is what I wanted to get into when I started this thread. Sorry for letting myself get pulled off track.
We covered Neurochemistry and how it affects brain by looking at some scientific data on brain chemistry.
For me the part that stood out was the aspect of Serotonin and how it affects the brain chemistry and what emotions are affected by this chemical.
I used to take Zoloft for about 5 years and got to a place that it was no longer needed and my doctor had me stop taking it.
That was about 8 years ago. What was brought up and really hit me in this part of the training. Serotonin is a chemical that is released in the brain to suppress emotions.
As I am facing the trauma of my childhood in professional therapy. It is making sense to me how come Zoloft worked as well as it did for me. I could not deny the difference Zoloft made in my dealing with my emotions back then. I actually found out what being normally calm felt like. My normal calm previously was extremely agitated on a constant basis.
My LGAT experience in Klemmer & Associates as I was told that I was at cause for what I attracted in my life, and that I could keep negative from coming at me from others, and all the other temporary mind/emotion numbing teachings that are taught in LGAT’s.
It all made sense to me as to why I was so prime to be lured into an LGAT as I am facing the extreme emotional damage in me from my past.
Just like serotonin that my past use of Zoloft did in my brain and how I handled my emotions. My experience in Klemmer & Associates was a temporary thing that pushed back my emotions from the front of my brain to the back and unseen by me.
I realized that all my Klemmer & Associates LGAT experience did was to put a temporary bandage over my emotional landscape that is hurting from past trauma in my life.
Now after my training last week in this process called Genesis. I am more committed than ever to dealing with the emotional damage from my past in Professional counseling.
I no longer want a band aid, or quick fix for my emotional pain. I want to bring healing to the pain so I don’t fall victim to such messed up things as an LGAT in my life ever again.
This is what I wanted to get into when I started this thread. Sorry for letting myself get pulled off track.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Passionate
()
Date: August 15, 2007 02:03AM
RS, I'm sympathetic with your struggles and I have heard you talk about many many different ways LGAT's have affected your life. Just a few questions:
What makes this Genesis program different from LGAT's? Are there any similarities?
Alcoholics Anonymous is a Christian-based program that works for people of any faith. They don't specify how to worship God or even what to call him. This is a case when a religiously-based program can traverse into any religious belief and help a sick person to find his road to health. Jews, Moslems, Hindus all attend this program and find great success. Maybe Genesis does the same thing - while it is facilitated by a Christian group, it may not teach their faith. I haven't experienced it so I may be off the mark, but its possible that they aren't there to gain members of their flock.
What makes this Genesis program different from LGAT's? Are there any similarities?
Alcoholics Anonymous is a Christian-based program that works for people of any faith. They don't specify how to worship God or even what to call him. This is a case when a religiously-based program can traverse into any religious belief and help a sick person to find his road to health. Jews, Moslems, Hindus all attend this program and find great success. Maybe Genesis does the same thing - while it is facilitated by a Christian group, it may not teach their faith. I haven't experienced it so I may be off the mark, but its possible that they aren't there to gain members of their flock.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 15, 2007 04:00AM
Quote
Passionate
RS, I'm sympathetic with your struggles and I have heard you talk about many many different ways LGAT's have affected your life. Just a few questions:
What makes this Genesis program different from LGAT's? Are there any similarities?
Alcoholics Anonymous is a Christian-based program that works for people of any faith. They don't specify how to worship God or even what to call him. This is a case when a religiously-based program can traverse into any religious belief and help a sick person to find his road to health. Jews, Moslems, Hindus all attend this program and find great success. Maybe Genesis does the same thing - while it is facilitated by a Christian group, it may not teach their faith. I haven't experienced it so I may be off the mark, but its possible that they aren't there to gain members of their flock.
This organization does work on the same basis as Alcoholics Anonymous.
If a person would take the time to ask the right questions versus getting stuck on it being ran by a faith based organization.
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
Rswinters
()
Date: August 15, 2007 04:05AM
I have agreed to disagree with Ricks stance on Faith vs. Science as he stated one is based on facts while the other is based on belief. I strongly disagree and will not remain on a forum so biased as this.
Since this is an impasse that will not be resolved. I have informed Rick that I will remove myself from this forum. There will be no need to be banned by him.
I have gained much from this forum as I have been recovering from my LGAT experience.
I will refer people to this site for information on LGAT’s while informing them of the biased stance on faith issues.
It has been a pleasure knowing you all. Have a nice life and may God richly bless each and everyone of you.
Good bye
Rswinters
Since this is an impasse that will not be resolved. I have informed Rick that I will remove myself from this forum. There will be no need to be banned by him.
I have gained much from this forum as I have been recovering from my LGAT experience.
I will refer people to this site for information on LGAT’s while informing them of the biased stance on faith issues.
It has been a pleasure knowing you all. Have a nice life and may God richly bless each and everyone of you.
Good bye
Rswinters
The Genesis Process is a fantastic deprogramming from LGAT's
Posted by:
SaneAgain
()
Date: August 15, 2007 04:18AM
Rs, my original motive for posting on this topic was that I was concerned about you entering a group-based belief altering program when you are still vulnerable from an lgat.
I am still concerned about that and while I am happy you feel it is doing you good, please, from one ex-thought-reformed person to another, be very careful with this and keep your wits about you.
I am sorry you feel the need to leave this site.
I wish you well in your recovery and will very much miss your presence here.
Take care.
I am still concerned about that and while I am happy you feel it is doing you good, please, from one ex-thought-reformed person to another, be very careful with this and keep your wits about you.
I am sorry you feel the need to leave this site.
I wish you well in your recovery and will very much miss your presence here.
Take care.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.