Well, Rick...It's just them passing the buck. That is, directly passing the buck from participants's wallets into their own.

Otts- I see you are back from the second Discovery verbal abuse and physical conditioning class with a fresh load of Bull. Wow, they must have really broke you down this time. I thought you weren’t going to post at this site anymore. If your going to break a contract you should bread the one with the Discovery Cult. Your family could use a man around Im sure. But keep going to the classes and mabey they’ll enlighten you on the secret of life or some other profound info that only Discovery can give. That or you’ll run out of money and they will kick you to the curb.

And by the way, your post states “As for my experience, My relationship with my wife was good but not great before discovery. Now that my wife and I have both atteneded it has only been better. Sorry to dissapoint that we did not come home and divorce.”…. Does Child Protective Service know that you have both joined a cult? And those who have seen your wife are not disappointed . I know it’s a cheap shot, but sooo true!

And dano- You said you had not attended the cult training, but in your last post you flip flop by saying “I have not been able to make it to one of those monthly dinners, because my wife and I haven't been able to attend due to our own schedules. That isn't required...the reunions with the class are not required...the volunteering to help is not required. Nothing is required and if your wife is saying it is, she is mistaken or giving you incorrect information.> So you DID attend the abuse class. Make up your mind. Is it STILL a foggy feeling? And just how do you know that someone didn’t tell EC’s wife that this crap isnt required. Your cult looks like it is purposely set up so that one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing. This is classic.

You are both trying to cloud the issue by making personal attacks and flat out lying about your experiances with Discovery-which for anyone looking for the truth IS A CULT. .

For anyone who has been invited to a Discovery Cult Training session. DON’T GO! Send me a private message and ill send you some shit that will blow you away.
This is what happens when a Gas Station owner decided to be a Psychiatrist. It’s the mindset that you can badger, yell, with hold water and other cruel mind games to get results. Cause we all know that ultimately the means always justify the end. Right Jim Jones. …….Jim?

I have been reading these post for a few weeks now about Discovery and I know that anyone that thinks it is a good thing will be attacked. That's ok. One theme I have seen is how hateful and mean sprited that those of you are to those who dissagree with you. Especially notmuchforgames. How dare you to personally attack someone's wife. That tells me so much about your character. Do you guys have any joy in your life ? It sounds like you are just always angry.
One question I would like to know is what was it that your wives did that was so bad when they came back from Discovery? Did they treat you badly? Did they tell you things that you did not like? What was it? We all know what the answer to that was. You were not in control of the situation. That is the bottom line. You can say what you want, but that is the truth of the matter. Controllers do that. If you cannot be in control of who they are in contact with or what they are doing you don't like it! Sorry to tell you all but none of us have control in this life. Trying to control someone elses life only make you feel like your the man.
Discovery is a great program for me. I see your little fingers getting ready to slam me. Don't bother because what you say cannot change my mind. I am glad that I have a wonderful husband that has also gone to Discovery and allows me to think for myself.
By the way , you need to get your information straight about the co-owner of Discovery. He is not the "Jiffy Lube" of Wichita Falls. You got that wrong. Just check your information before you post.

happy:

You have made a good point.

People should be courteous on this message board, there is no need to be mean spirited. It is possible disagree and to be critical without being insulting.

But try to understand the damage LGATs frequently are responsible for and how they affect people's lives negatively.

LGATs generate more complaints on this board than any other category of group.

And the "bottom line" is the personal destruction that LGATs cause, which often makes people angry.

The flip side of your point is that LGAT supporters frequently attempt to blame everything on those damaged by the LGAT, as opposed to objectively looking at the program itself and how it hurts people.

Try thinking for yourself and consider this, rather than so quickly labeling someone a "controller."

Can you see anything wrong with Discovery?

If you look back on this thread and read through it carefully there are typically inherent and basic problems with LGATs.

"That is the truth of the matter."

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happy
One question I would like to know is what was it that your wives did that was so bad when they came back from Discovery? Did they treat you badly? Did they tell you things that you did not like? What was it? We all know what the answer to that was.

"We all know what the answer to that was."

Um, no we don't. Why do you cult apologist speak in the plural instead of using "I" statements. Like "I think I know what the answer to that was." People who use "we" statements generally have problems owning behaviors and often assume they can read minds as they know what everyone is thinking.

That's what I think, but I'm just a professional counselor, what the hell do I know, right?

Otts you said:
“The reality is that not everyone who goes to discovery has a bad experience (in fact the reality is that a huge majority of the people have their lives changed for the better), that reality is based on fact, what is yours based on Vic...other than extreme, uneducated, bias?”

Please provide the facts based on objective measurable results. Those facts could stop much of this discussion.

Ok, I have the discovery notebook in front of me, and I am going to quote from it.

1. call your individuals on Tuesday of each week.
2. confirm if they are
a. talking with their buddies in the group
b. working on their own commitment, holding others to their commitment, and ask about a service walk.
c. Are they putting people into training, get specific names and give to office
d. Are they committed to return to discovery, and what is their financial status to return
Otts, does that sound like conformity?

Dano
the person who sent the card to my wife encouraging her to not share was a TRAINER representing discovery! Not a person going through the abuse training, but a TRAINER. I want make sure you are clear on that.
You say you were encouraged to share everything with your wife, but didn’t actually say you did. Did you? Did you share the specifics of all of the drills? Have you shared the similairities of those drills to other LGATS? Have you shared the bad experiences posted by others on the forum? At a minimum those criteria must be met in order to claim you have shared the discovery experience.

Discovery proponents:
If discovery is such a good thing why are you opposed to disclosing both sides of the issue to potential recruits? Why not tell people upfront….hey there are some potential problems with the training, oh, and yeah the things you will be submitted to are proven teqniques used in mind control and coercive persuation?
I am reading pages of rules, and guidelines, but one stands out.

“Follow the instructions of the facilitator; I will not ask you to do anything immoral or unsafe by our standards.”
By our standards? Wow, anyone want to take bets on if a lawyer put that in to try and reduce culpability? Is that not a commitment to give over your free will to discovery?
That is just SICK!

STOP D! NOW

EC

Is that it? Are the posers going to leave us alone and stop telling those tall tales. I have had a couple of strange private messages on this site from persons asking for me to email them what I have on the Discovery Cult. I wonder why they are so worried about those of us who chose to share information about the creepy and cruel things going on in those Discovery Abuse Classes in Dallas at the Doubletree every month. And that owner or founder or father or whatever the hell they call him(he's got way more money than I do so I won't name him, but you can look it up.)

He DID own a chain of gas stations/quick lubes here in MY town and I encourage his followers to ask to see his degree, or the degree of ANYBODY in his organization. There ain't none! Just a bunch of people making a living off of other peoples problems. They solve no problems, they just point them out in a public setting as if that will solve anything. I think the ridicule gets some of the employees off.

Happy- YOU need to check YOUR facts. I used the term Jiffy Lube as a generic term for a filling stations YOUR founder owned back then. Ask around

Discovery is a cult. STOP D NOW

They will be back.
In my last post I stated cold hard facts that conflicted with their fuzzy minds view of discovery. No doubt that required critical thinking to respond, I am sure they are running back to their trainers to see how to respond to those unhealthy non believers.
That is funny about the founder. If one were to call and verify those references he lists on the website, the responses would range from disclosure to refusal to talk about him. to anger. In theory of course.

I wonder how they even found this forum? They either did an internet search for discovery training Dallas Cult, or the founders know it is a cult and are trying to do damage control. Either way indicates they associate discovery with a cult in some manner.

EC

Hello Everyone...no. I did not run away. Some of us were on vacation...it was thanksgiving you know. ; )

Enviro-cop - To answer your question. Yes. I did share with my wife about everything. and by everything..I mean EVERYTHING.

Guys..I feel your concern. Honestly...I do. Let me read and respond to some of these questions...

1. call your individuals on Tuesday of each week. There is nothing wrong with accountability. And when they say call your individuals..it is only like two people I called. No big deal..I am friends with them.
2. confirm if they are
a. talking with their buddies in the group again..this is for acct. nothing wrong with that. It is actually a healthy thing to have acct.
b. working on their own commitment, holding others to their commitment, and ask about a service walk. You make commitments in discovery and I/We (whatever) would like acct.
c. Are they putting people into training, get specific names and give to office This isn't a requirement. It is just about sharing MINE/OURs (whatever) experience to others.
d. Are they committed to return to discovery, and what is their financial status to return if they can't afford to come...they offer scholarships...yes. that is right. scholarships to actually pay for the people who can't afford it.
Otts, does that sound like conformity? conformity isn't always bad EC.

Vic-Luc - you crack me up. I like you dude. Especially this comment

"That's what I think, but I'm just a professional counselor, what the hell do I know, right?"

That was funny.

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Enviro_Cop
I wonder how they even found this forum? They either did an internet search for discovery training Dallas Cult, or the founders know it is a cult and are trying to do damage control. Either way indicates they associate discovery with a cult in some manner. EC

I looked at this forum after notmuch4games called me and threatened to come to my home and physically attack me. During his psychotic rant he kept spouting off this web-site as some sort of proof that I had been brainwashed and that he was the sane one (terrorizing strangers is a sign of mental stability I've heard). He was upset because I had sent a text message to his wife stating that I hoped things were going well with her (I also wrote her a reference letter for a scholarship to the second session of Discovery). Those are hardly the actions of a cult member, they are in fact the actions of a freind, tho notmuch4games has succeded in making sure that his wife has no freinds.

This website has helped me somewhat. I have been carefule not to make discovery or the people there a higher priority than my existing freinds, family, or responsibilities. I looked at the results discovery has had in people that I know and it is very positive. I personally know (that is to say I am freinds with) at least 4 LPCs who have gone through, a RN, a physicians assistant, a private business owner, a physician, a physical therapist, a pharmacy tech , and a respiratory therapist. Their marriages are stronger, their faith is more substantial, and their level of happiness has increased, not because of discovery, but because of the tools that they learned to put into practice as a result of attending the classes. These tools include dealing with issues in your past, learning to not hide behind masks, recognizing your own personal pitfalls and vices and how to overcome them, and living life with purpose other than simply making it from day to day.

This is what I learned, this was my experience, it has been a positive one. I do however recognize that this may not be the universal experience with discovery. I think that there are people who attend and it does nothing for them, they usually dont return for a second session. To say that it destroys marriages is impossible to prove, it is much easier to say that your spouse was brainwashed than to focus on your own contribution to a broken relationship. Blame discovery if you want, but marriages break up every day regardles of whether or not you attend some weekend seminar.

It is hard for me to fathom the amount of arrogance that it takes to insinuate that you know better than the hundreds of people who attend discovery and benefit from it. The might of your pride to say that it is a cult when everything about it is teaching people to be individuals...not conformist. Doctors, lawyers, CEO's, teachers, housewives..they have all been duped? There is not a strong will or educated mind among them? They are all going to hand there life decisions over to some group of people they meet in a weekend? Forget about it, thats not how it works, to suggest it shows how little respect you have for others and their own ability to live their lives.

I am sorry for your poor experiences but that does not mean that discovery is the black hole of doom that you claim it is, all it means is that you have a different perspective than people who have had a good experience.

I have been physically threatened, you have mocked my wife in childish anger, and you have ridiculed me for being honest about my experience...maybe that is the reason that your spouses have some issues with how you treat them. It doesn't take a professional counselor to figure that one out.