I don't entirely agree with this. I agree with the "apathy" part but not with the "f*ck you" part. To me it looks more like you have a *shrug* attitude than a "f*ck you" attitude.
Look at it this way:
You recruit a friend to do Quest (or any other LGAT)
Friend does Quest
Friend has psychotic beakdown
Friend jumps out of window
Your response? *Shrug* ... Quest is not for everyone...He wasn't in the right place for it yet...it worked for me... I had a great experience...I Am Love.
After reading my original post in the light of the above comments I can see the point you are trying to make.
However my response would not be "*shrug* It worked for me."
That is a massively selfish response and not in line at all with what I got out of the workshops I attended.
For me we are all one (and for rsWinters this is scientifically provable)
and any deliberate loss of life is unacceptable.
You did say you sympathise and I appreciate that, but your other comments kind of negate that. Its as if you feel sympathy, but there is some kind of mental block about taking your LGAT concepts and statements to their logical conclusion?
Hmm that is interesting - Please elaborate on what the logical conclusion would be?
As if there are two you - one who sympathises, one who shrugs? I hope you're not finding this offensive.
Not at all - I take it as a learning - introspection is a very important tool for me and being able to see how others perceive me allows me to evaluate and "correct" things that I find offensive within myself.
Its just that if you read all the other posts from LGAT supporters they all say very much the same thing you're saying, with the same language, tone, terminology... its difficult to find the real person behind that - your other posts are quite unique though :D
Thank you for the compliment :)
The terminology I use is a bit LGATish I know however I have no other way to express concepts like "just Being" which is immensely powerful for me in terms of accepting who I am flaws and all.
also my religious (read spiritual) views also use these terms.
If they offend you I truly am sorry.
Failing to even consider that the LGATs are flawed, rather than putting the blame on the victim for being "not ready yet" is like ignoring the elephant in the room.
Oh i agree with you LGATS are flawed and the people on this forum are undeniable proof of that.
My point is they are also beneficial to some and I stand to be corrected but the number of people who actually make a better life after attending LGATS far outweigh those who have a (very) bad experience after.
Please don't misunderstand me I do not wish to imply that those who did not "get it" for want of better words should be ignored.
on the contrary, I would like very much to understand why the processes produce such phenomenal change in some and cause others to go off the deep end (that's a bit crass - sorry but you get my point).
You say that psychosis is brought on by certain drugs - how come you don't say the person wasn't in the right place yet for the drug?
No - I am saying that some drugs work for some people and not for others.
Example. My mother used Zyban to quit smoking - worked a treat 7 weeks of that stuff and she hasn't touched a smoke in 5 years.
My father spent a week on it and was admitted to hospital. Same drug - same dosage - Hugely different outcome.
Its also a little patronising (unintended I'm sure, but that's how it comes across) to say that someone isn't "in the right place yet". What does that mean? That I wasn't mature enough? Advanced enough? experienced enough? Vibrating at a high enough frequencey?
When it comes to working with ourselves - some people are not yet ready to deal with the emotional scars that injuries have left them with.
and the confrontational nature of LGATS may push them over the edge - I accept that, and do feel there should be some kind of screening process before.
Same drug - same dosage - hugely different outcome.
Altho this may come down to ethics - from what I have read here about Impact and others it would seem that ethics are lacking - I did not find that with the workshops I attended. but that might just be the brainwashing talking :)
Facing what fears, exactly? Fear of being locked in a room for five days running, witnessing physical and verbal abuse of other people, being verbally abused myself - all to the tune of John Denver and Whitney Houston?
I know what you mean about the abuse - I was on the receiving end of a massive tirade ( I am an ex drug dealer and fairly well covered in tattoos)
They had a field day with me. and in the end I took responsibility for my actions and changed my life altho I still like tattoos :).
so for me it was a means to an end - and that sounds like a *shrug* comment.
Being brainwashed to believe that all the murders, rapes and wars happening in the outside world are my fault because I said something wrong in a seminar room?
This is where interpretation comes in.
again I can only talk for me as I havn't lived your experiences.
I take responsibility for everything in the world from the children being raped in my country to the war in Iraq.
what this means is by acknowledging that it IS occurring I am in a position to make a choice. I can do something about it - or I can leave it.
If I do not take responsibility for it the CHOICE to do something about it does not present itself and the problem goes ignored.
Now i may not be able - in my small sphere of influence - to do something about the war in Iraq - but I sure as hell can do something about the guy on the side of the road begging for change wearing a T-shirt in the dead of winter.
Responsibility is not blame. I am not at fault for the war in Dafour however if I ignore it I may miss an opportunity to do something to help.
I hope that is clear - its not easy to convey these concepts via a text medium.
Being told over and over and over again that if I don't do what the trainers want me to do "the universe" will sort me out?
See that is wrong - again I did not experience this kind of blackmail
Then dancing around in costume to the point of exhaustion and getting laid out on the floor, in a state of shock (after being carried around in a ceremony to represent my own funeral)
We did stretches but they did not end like this. It sounds nasty.
while a bunch of total strangers stroke my body and the trainer "revives" me as if she is some kind of god and I am jesus being resurrected
I never looked at it like that - and accept that this could be damaging.
My experience of contracts was a massive relief. like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders.
thank you for that. It has opened up an interesting train of thought for me.
then being forced to listen to some of the most hair-raising secrets of other people that have nothing to do with me and that I would rather not hear
I found the sharing to be moving and an eye opener.
and I applaud anyone who has the strength to stand up in front of strangers and divulge deeply personal information.
We were not forced to share and have assisted on workshops where no one shared in this manner.
being screamed at for murdering people because I am not capable of magically transforming four dolls in a lifeboat game into sixteen
Lifeboat was disturbing for me too - I was on the boat and I cried like a newborn when I could not "save" the others.
and at the end of all this shit I get told to go out into the world and "Make A Difference" which in real English means "recruit people into Quest" - because my own life is pathetic?
Essence walk for us was not about recruiting, infact we were explicitly told not to divulge that this was part of a workshop. What I gained from it was this.
If I engage (more LGAT speak I know) with people in a particular manner
it is possible to gain and give trust to those who otherwise would not have it in their lives.
Please see the conversations with rsWinters as an example.
again this was my experience and learning from the process - others probably had a different view.
Excuse me shouting, but its not a calm subject. And I'm not shouting at you, I'm shouting at the source of the LGAT logic that you're using.
I understand completely.
I get VERY upset when people start talking to me about the Church and how Christ died for my sins - I respect their beliefs but don't preach to me.
( If I sound preachy in the above I am not trying to convert you :))
My main complaint is that I was deliberately decieved, manipulted, used and brainwashed. The rest I can forgive, but the deliberate and covert attempt to destroy my natural personality, character, values and beliefs ?
I will state for the record that I am aware that I have been "brainwashed" by the processes of these workshops - No doubt in my mind whatsoever.
I will also state that as a direct result of this brainwashing my life improved 10 fold.
had I been told upfront - We are gonna brainwash you and you'll be better for it I would have run a mile.
Now I know the whole world is going to jump on that statement - YOU LIKE BEING BRAINWASHED!!.
unashamedly the answer is yes. If you knew me before I was "brainwashed" you would thank your creator that I am not that person any more.
Maxui, how did your life change due to your course? Did you get a new relationship? New Job?
I forgave everyone including myself who had done wrong by me.
from this my relationship with my father improved to a point where he isn't "that fat c*#t" anymore he is "Dad." and I am proud and honoured that I am his son ( if you knew me you would understand what a huge shift that is for me)
I had a history of mentally abusive relationships with people who walked all over me.
now one or two bad relationships are expected in life.
I have never had a relationship where I was not cheated on an abused.
until now - the lady I am with currently is an awesome person who loves me unconditionally and she has not done any LGAT type things.
I am an instructor in the exquisite art of Kung fu and train and teach daily.
something my previous self would have laughed at. why should I take the time to teach and help other people.
I live my life in Love,humility and in service of others.
and for me - The universe gives me back exactly what I put into it.
If what I have stated above comes across as arrogant or judgemental I apologise. It is not my intention to judge.
and by the way
I am Trust - So much so that I have it tattooed down my right flank :0.
So in conclusion it would appear that altho the processes are the same or similar - the manner in which they are handled by the "trainer" differs vastly.
Perhaps this is the reason why things go wrong?
Also thank you SaneAgain. you have given me a lot to think about in regard to views I held as truth. It is always good to view things from a different perspective.
I hope I have done the same for you.
With Love always