These posts are reminders of what I keep hearing.....

"Walk away and never look back"

Thank you!

>>These posts are reminders of what I keep hearing.....

"Walk away and never look back" <<

Walk if you can't run; Crawl if you can't walk.

But RUN, or get someone to help you RUN, as fast as you can.

It's a little like getting too close to a Black Hole just to see what it's made of.

They just aren't worth it.

And life is too short, in my experience, to waste so much time there.

(And money. It's not going to be $495.00, it's going to be $6,000.00 or more for you, plus your spouse, kids or friends who you choose to support in being there. The $495.00 can turn into $20,000.00 or more faster than you can imagine!)

And if the people who train (and own) these companies really LIVED what they (pretend to) "TRAIN," would they:

1) Have started Impact from Lifespring?

2) Have been sued by Lifespring?

3) Have started Rising Star as a split from Impact?

4) Ever have been out of alignment with the LDS Church and its concerns?

5) Formed Harmony as a shell to keep the IRS at bay?

6) Fired Hans and Sally from Harmony?

7) Have the current turmoil in the staff and trainers at Impact?

8) Never have ever even once reached out to reconcile, forgive, heal the past damage and pain?


I mean if they REALLY practice win-win, forgiveness, playing-to-win and all the ways of being they ABSLOUTELY DEMAND from their trainees, would there be four (or more) different companies offering these trainings in SLC?

They were trainees at one time. How come THEY didn't get it. Does it look like they got their money's worth? Are they, based on results, truly transformed?

Sure they have their reasons and stories for this, long ones about how they were all victimized (Hans stole the training from Lifespring, Bruce Solomon wanted more money, the IRS agent was abusing his wife until she did the training so the IRS took my company away, we didn't want to fire Hans and Sally but the FBI made us, Steve Juback stole our TIT training modules cause he changed the locks when they were still stored in our ofice there) and on and on and on . . . not a shred of accountability. Look at their results. They are at war with one another.

Or maybe it is simple as there's something unworkable, deeply, deeply unworkable, in the long-run, in what they train.

Sure they can make you feel good in the short-term, or for as long as you keep staffing, doing mastery trainings, etc. But in the long-run, what do you see?

Impacted

(BTW While this has been a surprisingly fun, learningful and healing weekend, reading everything here and posting over the past three days, I do have a life where I experience making a positive difference in the world, so I may be away for awhile, and certainly don't intend to keep up this pace. Till then, God Bless.)

>>so I may be away for awhile, and certainly don't intend to keep up this pace (of posting in the Forum). Till then, God Bless.)<<

What I also meant to add was, If anyone has a question or concern and needs to contact me immediately, I am available to help/assist. Send a PM. I'll get an email and check in here within a day or so at most. But I may not check for messages./replies in the thread/forum more than once a week or so.

Large group awareness training groups (LGATs) seems to have the same problems wherever they go and whoever leads them.

See [www.culteducation.com]

Note the liabilities and danger signs provided by a the research psychologist within this article regarding what he calls "mass marathon training."

The same liabilities and dangers appear to be inherent within LGATs big and small, old and new.

I thought I would move this dialogue over to the main forum

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mark1972
I just want to set the record straght on impact trainings, it it not what these people say. They have had over 140,000 people go through the training, you are going to have a few nut jobs. Impact Training does not teach you anything you already don't know inside. Impact has changed my life for the better, I'm a better husband, father, son and uncle. We do not go out to recruit everybody we meet, when people ask me what changed my life I tell them. It is up to them to choose if they want to see what it's about. People today are so judgemental and closed off, I feel sad for them. So many people let fears control theri life. This works for all races and religions, If it's not for you, that is great news, but don't go bashing it. All you hear on the news is bashing and negativity, what happened to people just loving life? Negativity and hate will consume your life and you will get excatley what you put out there.

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dazedandconfused

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mark1972
I just want to set the record straght on impact trainings, it it not what these people say. They have had over 140,000 people go through the training, you are going to have a few nut jobs. Impact Training does not teach you anything you already don't know inside. Impact has changed my life for the better, I'm a better husband, father, son and uncle. We do not go out to recruit everybody we meet, when people ask me what changed my life I tell them. It is up to them to choose if they want to see what it's about. People today are so judgemental and closed off, I feel sad for them. So many people let fears control theri life. This works for all races and religions, If it's not for you, that is great news, but don't go bashing it. All you hear on the news is bashing and negativity, what happened to people just loving life? Negativity and hate will consume your life and you will get excatley what you put out there.

I absolutely respect where you coming from. I was there too but the truth is that a lot of people have had their lives torn apart there. If we have our own answers and are free to express them why should we only speak if we are pro-impact? Impact has worked for you....great...I know many where it has worked and many where it has done the opposite and I couldn't see it in my 'fog'. They have had over 140, 000 go through the training...now can you tell me how many of them are functioning normally, who still have an intact marriage, home, career...who is on the street..on drugs...completely lost? Can you give me that number so that its more conclusive and we can see the success rate? There gets to be a place where those who have been harmed can speak...do you agree? Also what level of the training are you in?

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Impacted
Mark1972,

Obviously we have different experiences.

One thing I'd like to point out is the obvious lie in that 140,000 number you cite.

Even if they had averaged 120 participants per month over the 22 years they have been in business (and I know there were many months where they had less than 20 in a Quest, and they didn't really start in 1985, and their early Lift-Offs had 10 or less for several years) -- that's still less than 1,500 per year (120 * 12 = 1,440). Not all 120 who enter Quest graduate.

Even at 1,400 per year (and this is generous), that's at the very most 30,000 people in the 21 years they claim to have been in business (1,400 * 21 = 29,400).

The way they lie about this number is a "perfect mirror" for the way they lie about so many other things in their "training" (read: cult).

Just reengage that mind God gave you, open your eyes and see.

How many just accept this 140,000 number without even thinking about it? How is that a mirror of how they accept so many other lies there?

The truth? At the very most 20,000 people have participated in Quest. 13,000 in Summit and 10,000 or less in Lift-Off.

So 140,000 "graduates" is really about "10,000" Lift Off Graduates.

Of those 10,000 how many have been cast aside by Hans and Sally?

Of course all the ones who did not go on from Quest to Summit; or Summit to Lift-off, based on what THEY say, "Have lost the results of their training."

How many staffed and then left in disgust over whacked-out cultish beliefs shared in a staff groundings? How may simply left?

Ever wonder why there are so few "old" grads around? Say from Lift-Offs in the sub 150s?

It's because Hans and Sally do not want anyone around who lived through (and knows about) the lawsuits, banckrupcys, name changes, and corporate shell schemes.

Anyone who was trained by a Trainer who is no longer with them is no longer welcome. Did Quest or Summit with Duane, or Mike, or Sylvia, or Lou, or Eleanor? No longer welcome at Impact (with very, very few exceptions).

Anyone who knows any dirt, lived through any turmoil or who dares share about their experience of that with any new trainees, banned for life.

So what you're talking about is not 140,000 "graduates" but maybe 5,000 or so. 5,000, at the very, very most.

And realistically, in terms of active grads it's less than half that.

If you disagree with this, then I have a simple question for you: Where is everybody?

I know there answer is: "They are out transforming the world on their own."

And I suppose if you believe that 10,000 is really 140,000, you'll believe that too.

Impacted and getting past it.

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formerimpactgrad
mark1972 wrote:
I just want to set the record straght on impact trainings, it it not what these people say. They have had over 140,000 people go through the training, you are going to have a few nut jobs. Impact Training does not teach you anything you already don't know inside. Impact has changed my life for the better, I'm a better husband, father, son and uncle. We do not go out to recruit everybody we meet, when people ask me what changed my life I tell them. It is up to them to choose if they want to see what it's about. People today are so judgemental and closed off, I feel sad for them. So many people let fears control theri life. This works for all races and religions, If it's not for you, that is great news, but don't go bashing it. All you hear on the news is bashing and negativity, what happened to people just loving life? Negativity and hate will consume your life and you will get excatley what you put out there.


Why did you start a new thread like this in the religion section? Were you afraid of having your post torn apart if you had posted on the main LGAT forum? I guess Pro-Impact arguments only work if they go unopposed by logical and rational thought. Impact is a cult, Hans and Sally are dishonest and the training hurts A LOT more than it helps. Explain the lawsuits (the vast majority of which they lose), explain the tax evasion, have you actually read the court documents posted on the main Impact page? My guess is that you are completely relying on your feelings and have done little to no research to verify or refute our claims. Rick, Impact is an LGAT, is there a good reason to have a second forum opened on the religion page?

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formerimpactgrad
I'm going to dispute one more claim that you made in your post.

mark1972 wrote:
...Impact Training does not teach you anything you already don't know inside...


This is completely false. In the Trainer in Training levels at the Impact Trainings I was told that I had clogged Chakra's that needed to be cleared using specific Impact processes. I was also told that I needed to find a staff and decorate it with crystals and other junk so I could strengthen my connection to God by channeling energy through the wood. I was told that I once lived in a city called Lemuria in a former life and was responsible for the ultimate destruction of the civilization. On another occasion I was told that a specific merchant found a box of crystals in a cave that I and others had left there in former lives that I needed to purchase and hold on to until NASA finished creating a "crystal reader" (probably similar to the one found in Superman's Fortress of Solitude"). Please explain to me how all of that falls into your blantantly ignorant statement that "Impact Training does not teach you anything that you don't already know inside"?

formerimpactgrad, sounds like you found the guy lurking outside in the bushes, and had to drag him in by the scruff of his neck! :lol:

I'm wondering if we should create a new thread (or a document or something along the lines of READ THIS FIRST -- help me out here moderators and those more familiar with how the site works)

Anyway, at 900 messages, I'm wondering if we should create an eaiser way for Impact grads, prospective trainees, and current trainees to find the best of the best of what's been posted here?

A prospective Impact Trainee, for example, who finds this thread and gives each of the 900 messages 15 to 20 seconds each would wind up reading for about four hours before reaching the end.

I'd like to create a more efficient way of giving them the information they truly deserve to have before they walk into Quest or TIT or, hopefully, run the other way with as many of their friends as possible.

I'd include the outline of the training, horror stories of Red/Black, feedback and Lifeboat. "The 100 most outrageous things Hans teaches/has said." The outline of the TIT trainings. Documentation and newscoverage of lawsuits. Why Great Life and other LGATs are just as bad. How to "win" Red/Black and Lifeboat. "100 questions to ask your Quest Trainer if you still decide to go."

Something that we would all agree everyone walking into that building should read first.

It seems to me, if I were one of those doe-eyed friends of someone I trusted, I'd be likely to bounce off of this thread before really finding what I needed to know.

What do allyalls think?

Impacted

In the south you, youall, and allyouall are all singular -- Allyalls is the only plural. :)

I think it's a great idea, especially if it is [i:fd6d00efcc]well[/i:fd6d00efcc] organized from the get-go.

I still have all of my TIT 1-3 manuals 8)

from another board:

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ezdoesit
The best advertisements against Landmark are Landmarkers themselves.


EZ

LOL, I think the same thing every time I drive by a billboard put up by Impact in Salt Lake City. You see a psycho smiling face with the slogan, "What if [i:3e5308548a]EVERYTHING[/i:3e5308548a] were possible?" Or a bunch of cartoon characters holding hands in a circle with the caption, "[i:3e5308548a]Remember[/i:3e5308548a]?"

GOD AWFUL. I honestly feel if you are dumb or crazy enough to look at one of those billboards and use that as your sole motivation for doing the trainings, you deserve everything you get. :roll:

Ex,

Actually I thought the Billboards were brilliant.

Not designed to attract new participants, but to reactivate old grads who otherwise might have gone to one of the split-off-from-Impact or other companies right here in Salt Lake City

-- Harmony (now Great Life)
-- Rising Star (now Vision Works)
-- Discovery (now The Experience)
-- est (now the LandMark Forum)
-- Gary Acevedo (www.dreammakersacademy.com)
-- Impact Grad Paul Mundt's Journey Seminars (www.journeyseminars.net -- the only one run by a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist (and unlike the above may not actually be an LGAT).

The "Since 1985" tag line letting everyone know that they are the "original."

Be like me putting on a Mickey Mouse suit tomorrow and then putting up a Billboard that I am the true, "Mickey Mouse since 2007." Or renaming Lagoon DisneyWorld and then putting up a sign that says: "The Original DisneyWorld since 1947" (or whenever Lagoon opened).

Of course the results of having split in half so many times, leaving a trail of unpaid bills from vendors, unpaid payroll taxes, unpaid employees, going to war with former trainers, borrowing money from recent graduates (and then being sued by them, eg Mike Cordell), changing names from Impact Incorporated, to Impact International, to Harmony Institute, to Light Trainings, to Lite Trainings, to Quest Development, and many, many others, and then, ta da, back to "Impact Since 1985 (what a lie) -- those "results" mean nothing.

They have LOTs of good "reasons, stories and excuses" for how they have left this trail of unpaid bills, lawsuits, angry former employees (of whom apparently Terri Smart, Shannon Woody, and Jim Condie are but the latest in a long, long line).

I mean really good reasons. Storied that would bring tears to your eyes, for example about, "How the evil IRS agent stole my training company <sob>."

Wonder how long that would last in Justin's Quest?

Anyway, the Billboards were terrific at hiding all that history . . . well almost hiding it. Even a 14 by 48-foot billboard isn't quite big enough to hide it for long.

"Hypocracy since 1985," indeed!