Mother of Impactees

FYI - There are trainings at Impact for both teenagers and youth, so you may want to be cautious of your younger kids as well. It's not my intention to cause panic, but I felt it would do you well to be forewarned.

spiritual?,

Thank you very much for pointing out to me the availbility for training for the younger children.

I was aware that they did offer some classes for younger kids, but I don't think that my ex-husband is pushing these courses, as heavily as he is ENCOURAGING the participation of the over 18 children in the Quest ~ etc. series.

Interestingly enough, all of my children are fairly computer savvy, even the younger ones. The new Step Mom in the picture specifically told my 12 year old son that there were good sites on the Internet, and bad sites on the Internet about Impact Training Seminars.

She specifically warned my son against reading anything on the sites in which dissatisfied customers are sharing information about their experiences. She told him that if he had questions about Impact, to make sure that he was on the REAL Impact Training site, and not on any of the other sites.

So, according to the new Mom, the sites that tell what I would consider the "truth" about Impact Trainings are to be avoided, because those sites are filled with stories of the experiences of "disgruntled" customers.

Duh. Maybe they are "disgruntled" for a reason!

My son even tried to warn me about reading information from the bad sites. He said something like, "Mom, if you want to learn more about Impact, make sure you are on the real Impact site, and not on one of the bad sites that say bad things about Impact that aren't true."

Oops! I guess I shouldn't have read the reports on this site then!

It is sad to me that my son is being brainwashed that the Impact Training Seminars are good. When I was casually visiting with him about the Impact Training Seminar series, and how it might be going against the advice of the leaders of the LDS church, he told me that Impact Trainings were OK, because of the scripture, "By their fruits ye shall know them."

I can't probe too deeply, and ask my children who is telling them specific things about Impact, because they will go back to their bio Dad, and/or Step Mom and tell them that I have been asking questions... So, I have to remain neutral as much as possible, when in my children's presence.

Thus, I'm not sure if it was my son's father, or the new Step Mom who told him that Impact was OK, because the people going through the seminars are having success, and "BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM." But, I don't think it was somehting that came out of his own, sweet, 12-year-old brain.

Poor little guy. Such blatant brainwashing at such a young age.

Hopefully I can somehow get through to my ex-husband that he has chosen a QUESTIONABLE organization to so closely align himself, and his family, with.

Thanks again, spiritual?, I appreciate you taking the time to help me navigate through all of this.

Mother of Impactees

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army-of-me

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formerimpactgrad
exImpact mentioned that, in his opinion, LDS people tend to have the most difficult time being involved with the Impact Trainings because their beliefs are regularly challenged and often belittled. I fully support everything that was said in his paragraph.

I am not LDS myself but while in the training I became aware of a release from the head of that faith regarding "self-awareness groups". I have added the link to a copy of the Salt Lake Tribune article reporting the release of this statement. [www.culteducation.com]

I'm sure the original release can be obtained from an LDS ecclesiastical leader if anyone wants to check my sources.

The release contains a list of criteria that LDS church members should look to avoid if considering an "awareness training". In the words of the release:

"Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.
2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.
3. Foster physical contact among participants.
4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.
5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.
6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners."

All six of these criteria apply to the Impact Trainings. I will address each in order;

1. As a part of the Lift Off training, trainees are asked to write a letter to a family member describing all of the ways that their relationship has been disfunctional in the past. As a "Plus One" challenge, trainees are told to mail or read the letter to that family member. While the intent of the exercise is to foster an improved relationship, the act of mailing or reading the letter definitely "advocates unwarranted confrontation as a means of reaching one's potential."

2. As a part of the Summit Training, trainees are encouraged to wash eachothers' feet as a part of a particular process. This is an obvious imitation of a rite or ceremony that is sacred to people of many faiths.

3. Hugging and other physical contact is encouraged and expected.

4. Most of my core trainings and nearly all of my TIT trainings ended long after midnight.

5. In the first day of the Quest Training, I was asked to disclose my "deepest and darkest secret" to another member of my training group.

6. Husbands and wives were paired with other partners at every level of the core trainings, often with another member of the oposite sex.

In short, if you are LDS I can assure you that involvement with the Impact Trainings will be a source of confusion and tension. Your beliefs will be challenged and your organization will be ridiculed at every level of the training. Many of the backhanded remarks will be presented as friendly jokes, but the intent is clear. Also, let no one delude you into thinking that the LDS church's release does not apply to the Impact Trainings. It meets all six of the listed criteria.

Oops, I just found where this Former had already posted the LDS' First Presidency's warning about Self-Awareness Groups... However, my posting had the full text and the LDS.org link... AND it also gives me an excuse to quote Former's original post detailing how Impact meets each of the criteria.

Hi there, board members, it's me again, Mother of Impactees, with an update to the continuing saga.

Soooooo.... I just got back home from another PAINFUL week-end in Utah. If I didn't love my children so much, I would never put myself through these exchanges of information which the Impact Training Seminar Series has seemed to facilitate so well.

The bottom line was that I, again, willingly sat there while my beautiful 20 something daughter, who is in the middle of her Lift-Off series, REINTERPRETED WITH AN IMPACT SPIN ON THINGS several facets of her childhood, teen-age years, and young adulthood. I allowed her to process her pain, and quite frankly, I let her poop on my parade, again, for not being a better mother to her. I took being a mother very seriously, and poured my whole heart and soul out on my children for 25 + years, and yet, I am being criticized right and left for things that I did, with good intentions, that are now being interpreted as negative for my children's well-being, due to the fact that my children are now looking at things with an Impact Trainings Worldview.

I honestly felt as if my children had to stretch, to come up with things about my parenting that they now see as negative, after their Impact Trainings. For exmple, my son said that he felt that I always pressured him to succeed in sports. What? Where did that come from?

I have reached a point at which I am very concerned that my younger kids be exposed to all of this. I honestly don't think that there is enough merit to what they are doing at the Impact Trainings facility in order to justify the attendance of my children at these seminars. I'm a little tired of the whole thing, but I do need to approach this board this one last time for some "assistance."

I have quoted the very thorough messages above in which army-of-me is quoting the formerimpactgrad in his list of specific examples of how the Impact Training Seminar Series is in violation of a letter which specifically listed 6 warning signs from the First Presidency of the LDS church.

As stated earlier, I am no longer a practicing member of the LDS church; however, I feel that the list of 6 warning signs include many common sense concerns that members of any faith might want to consider before signing up with a self-help seminar series.

I would like to ask the additional members of this board, if you have any personal stories you can add to the post above, with specific examples of how Impact Trainings are crossing the line, into the area of concern mentioned in the letter, I would greatly appreciate it if you could share the examples with me.

Also, as I have stated previously, I have not attended the training seminars personally, but have had 2 adult children attend the seminars, and I did make a special trip to Utah to attend their graduation.

My PERSONAL observations from the graduation night for Quest, and my personal experiences with my children since their trainings have included violations of the following warnings, listed in the same order in which they appear in the posting above:

"Church members should not participate in groups that:

1. Challenge religious and moral values or advocate unwarranted confrontation with spouse or family members as a means of reaching one's potential.

Both of my adult children who have attended these seminars have engaged me in what I would easily consider "unwarranted confrontation" as a direct result in their participation in the Impact Training Seminars. I have had lengthy conversations with both of my kids regarding negative memories that re-surfaced as a result of their training, whether real or imaginary. My adorable mid 20's age son, with whom I have always had a very loving relationship, accused me of spanking him at an early age, and he claimed he remembered the spankings as part of his Impact Trainings. I NEVER in my life laid a hand on my son, but now he claims that he remembers me spanking him.


2. Imitate sacred rites or ceremonies.

When I went to my children's graduation from Quest, I noticed jewelry for sale in the lobby. I saw a specific hand symbol, or sign, on several of the pieces of Jewelry. When I asked the young woman who was selling the jewelry about the hand sign, and what it meant, she told me that it was a secret that I could only learn if I took the trainings. I later learned the meaning of this secret sign of the hand. Those of you who have gone through an LDS endowment ceremony may recognize the similarity in the hand sign, and one that is given in the Temple.

Additonally, when I asked the employees of the Impact Training Facility specific questions regarding what goes on the training seminars, they told me that they could not tell me what was being taught in the seminars, because the information was secret.

3. Foster physical contact among participants.

When I attended my children's graduation, I was amazed at the lack of boundaries that the participants had, in regards to giving and receiving full body hugs. After the graduation was over, it seemed as if the entire auditorium was melting into one big group hug. Males hugged males, females hugged females, males hugged females, etc. And some of the hugs were not just quick, grandmother type hugs, but long, full body hugs. In my opinion, the use of the graduation for a big hug-fest, even among strangers, was in clear violation of the warning regarding "physical contact among particants."

4. Meet late into the evening or in the early-morning hours.

A quick visit the main informational and advertising website for the Impact Trainings Seminars provides easy proof of what I consider to be a violation of this warning. Both Quest and Summit training weeks include a starting time of 11:30 am, and an ending time of 11:30 pm, on a daily basis. My daughter said that the ending time was only a "suggested" ending time, and that her group stayed until at least midnight, or 1:00 in the morning, on a routine basis during both Quest and Summit.

Even the graduation started at 9:30 on a Saturday night, and I had had enough by 11:00 pm, and left. I have been told that the graduation ceremonies, and the meet-and-greet part afterward, may extend as late as midnight, on a routine basis.

5. Encourage open confession or disclosure of personal information normally discussed only in confidential settings.

I do not wish to violate confidences that my daughter has shared with me, but she reported to me that the trainers sometimes push the participants to work through their pain, and their issues, by publicly disclosing personal or painful information with the group.


6. Cause a husband and wife to be paired with other partners."

I have not seem a direct violation of this advice, but perhpas others have seen a violation of this warning, that could be shared with the group.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Overall, I am very concerned with the POWER that is willingly being GIVEN UP to this VERY QUESTIONABLE ORGANIZATION.

And, again, I am amazed how my very staunch LDS ex-husband can continue to turn a blind eye to the violations of the warnings in this letter, from the First Presidency.

I would be very interested if anyone one else would care to share additional examples of violations of this list of common sense concerns.

Mother of Impactees

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Impacted
>>but in reality, he "stole" the whole training from another training group called Landmark<<

Not Landmark -- Life Spring, a "training" company started by John Hanley, Bob White and others ...

Very interesting post Impacted, as usual. Your insights into impact are very intriguing.

I need to make a correction to a former post. I was mistaken in that I thought that there had been tuition scholarships offered to my children, to help them come back for the Lift-Off level.

It was an honest misunderstanding, on my part. Howefer, instead of offering free tuition, my daughter was offered help with her travel expenses, in going to and from the seminars from out of state, in that others offered her their frequent flyer tickets, etc. if she would just come back for Lift-Off.

I just misunderstood what my daughter told me, in her descriptions of her group basically Love Bombing her into returning for Lift-off.

I continue to be very concerned about what the Impact Training Seminar series has done to my two adult children, and would like to thank this board one more time for your moral support.

Mother of Impactees

Mother of Impactees,

It'll turn out okay, eventually. After the Bergers feel they have taken all the money they can from your kids, and after they feel they have pressured them to enrol everyone they could possibly enrol, or staff as a volunteer all they could possibly staff, they will cast them aside. Unless before that your kids encounter some obvious lack of integrity first -- another scandal caused by the Bergers and their handful of insiders.

Out of the "hundreds of thousands" that Impact has claimed to have "trained" or "transformed" a small handfull are still involved. Perhaps 5 or 6 from the 1985 to 1990 classes. A few dozen from 1990 to 2001 (Sally does not want anyone around who knows their history of name changes, bankrupcies, IRS asset seziures, unpaid bills, lawsuits, etc), so they have to rely on only the most recent, ingnorant participants, like your kids.

Over time another lawsuit will be filed, another bankrupcy, more unpaid bills, another scandal and, in time, I am sure, your kids will see the truth of what's going on there, be disgusted, embarassed, like the "99,000+" before them who have walked away (as if those Impact-lie numbers are accurate, but you get my point.)

I loved it when I was in the middle of it too, but it's not permanent, and you'll want to be ready to be there for them with the rotten foundation of where they are becomes clear, and falls out from under them.

--Ed



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2009 01:31AM by Impacted.

Dear "Impacted,"

Thank you for the information you provided, and for your insights.

As discussed previously on this board, I can't do much about how my ex-husband has ENCOURAGED two of my older children to participate in these questionable seminars...

I am just fearful that the youger brothers and sisters in the family will follow their father and their older siblings down this path that has been so damaging for so many.

I'm trying to do everything in my power to see that there is no more additional damage done, in my ex-husband's family, due to Impact, but time will tell...

Thanks again for the moral support.

Mother of Impactees

Impact's website has a new makeover, looks a little more crisp and organized..........like shit in a tux.

It's really interesting to see the urgency tactics they use to get people in there. "Limited Seating", "Waiting List" and now even an unbelievable offer of "2 for 1 Quest Special!When you register for the Quest Training, sign up a friend for FREE!"

Or one can do "The Men's Training and Retreat" where you can "Enjoy the Freedom of Being You!", a " Liberating weekend spent man to man, building teamwork, confidence, and connection!" where you may "Learn to stand tall in the face of opposition". I personally refuse to go to a weekend retreat where man to man I learn to stand tall and enjoy my freedom...........not that there's anything wrong with that.

But now that they call themselves the "Institute for Higher Consciousness" I'm sure all these cheap cheezwhiz tactics will work so that people can become "victims of victory", or some other bullshit that Hans and Sally dreamed while sagging out of their pajamas.

This next statement is a quote from Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals, that Rush Limbaugh recently used when commenting on the videos of ACORN officials providing guidance and assistance to persons purporting to be setting up a prostitution ring in the U.S. It follows as rule 4, under Strategy:

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

Senior Impact staff will tell you in weak moments that the violation of Quest rule number one, "Never be Late" is a huge frustration to staff when Hans and Sally show up late to especially LMT training sessions. I have suggested to exImpact that he begin his list of Impact insights with this Quest axiom/doctrine or whatever you want to call it. As Alinsky said, "You can kill them with this."

Glaucon notes that Impact is now calling themselves "Institute for Higher Consciousness" (IHC). Most people think of IHC as Intermountain Health Care, but a check of the Web will lead you to IHC 2012 or the Institute for Human Continuity. Expect Impact to piggyback on this IHC 2012 idea that the Mayan calendar ends in 2012 and that this is the end time of the world etc. This would be consistant with Impact's embracing "The Secret" until it was so thoroughly debunked by David Schirmer and good common sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2009 07:49AM by Hopeful Soul.

I haven't been here for awhile but just thought I'd check in and see what's up. It made me sad for you motherof. I can imagine what you're going through. In a way I have felt something similar, when people I cared about stayed after I found out the truth because they were brainwashed. It's been a long time since I've been there or even talked to anyone from there but I can still smell the stank in the air. It's funny over a year ago they were talking about all the 'secret' stuff. Do you know where the authors of the secret are? Last I heard all their money was tied up in a court battle.
Being on the inside looking out all you can see is how sad the people out there are, the ones that don't know what you know. When you are out and I mean out, as in not brainwashed, not involved at all, you feel the same. How sad that they don't know the truth. They talk of all their graduates but where are the statistics on how many of those committed suicide, went back to drinking or drugs, lived their lives as complete losers that justified everything because 'Everything is perfect'. Just how many divorces and adultery cases happen in the trainings? I would like to hear those 'results'.
As far as the church thing goes they've gotten away with that many times. I couldn't care less, not being religious. There are people in the higher trainings that are in bishoprics and deny they have anything to do with impact. So are they living their religion or living Hans and Sally's? IMO, Sally is behind the whole operation. Hans does what ever she says and most of what she does comes from her judgments and gossip from her office staff. She just pretends they're 'messages' from some master. Look in her eyes and all you see is darkness and greed (and no it's not because that's reflecting off me). HA
Good luck to all of you