Spiritual?

Thanks for the comment on your dealing with PTSD and anxiety. I had to look up PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). That is now another rival explanation of behavior in LMT folks that I know. I thought that Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and Bipolar were what I was seeing. PTSD seems to fit better than the others. I am beginning to see better now the whole range of mental issues that accompany LGATs. It is revealing to put "LGAT" in your browser along with "BPD" and "PTSD" and see the range of Websites that deal with this. Impact Trainings is forever linked with the dysfunctional effects of their trainings by the very Internet that they choose to use to lure the uninformed souls looking for a better life.

I have been reading over this thread, which was shown to me after I expressed my concern to someone who'd been through the trainings and left.

A large number of people in my life have recently gone through the trainings, and, from what I've seen, this has had a negative effect on them, overall.

When friends of mine first started the trainings, they tried to sign me up, stating that the trainings would "assist" me in dealing with some of the chaotic events that had been taking place in my personal life. I declined, mostly due to the fact that, at the time, money was hard to come by for me. Then, I had someone I hardly knew hand me the money for Quest. I asked her what they did there, and she told me that she didn't want to ruin my experience.

Once again, I declined. This time, as I had the money offered to me... it wasn't about that. What it WAS about was the fact that I'd been quite active in the past working for cult awareness groups. And this was setting off some pretty loud alarm bells for me.

After noticing the strange behaviors of a few of my aquaintances who'd taken the LMT training, I became curious and I started asking questions. When people started leaving the group, I'd ask them why. That's when I ran into a friend who told me a few things then led me here.

I've read every word of this thread. And I can only say that I feel sad. Concerned for the well-being of my friends.

Unfortunately, the details of the situation aren't things I feel comfortable sharing publicly because I feel that there may be a possibility of retaliation.

I will say this much, at the risk of disclosing my identity. (Which would only happen if someone I've spoken with read this.)

From a spiritual point of view...

I'm not LDS. I'm not even Christian. A few of the beliefs that I've learned from what I've read about Impact are, in fact, twisted versions of my own belief system. One I grew up with. Which is extremely insulting to me because I'm quite proud of who I am and what I believe.

The sad part about this is that I do not believe that religion and enlightenment are something you pay for. They should be free. And many of the practices that are taught at Impact, on a positive note, could be and ARE taught in POSITIVE settings and in healthy ways... free of charge. Meditation techniques, chakra cleansing, crystal working... those things CAN be positive things if that's something the person is into and if it's not made into some sort of sick, twisted scheme to get rich.

After speaking with fellow religious leaders of our area's Pagan community, we have come to the conclusion that this is unhealthy, unproductive, and quite dangerous. We actively speak and advise against it. There is nothing good about it, IMHO.

DisiectiPoetae-


Thanks for reading. Thank you for also letting us know that all of our thoughts and venting have not been in vain. Good luck to you and your aquaintances

HopefulSoul?

If you study a bit more you will find that PTSD, Borderline Personality Disorder and being Bipolar can be related, and share some symptoms.

An article in the NY Times revealed that most of the Iraq War veterans with the worst PTSD also reported the kind of troubled childhoods typical of BPD. In other words they were a bit unstable before enlisting, and that made them more susceptible to PTSD.

Years ago when the US Embassy hostages were released from Iran, psychologists in the media said that the ones who had the strongest connections to other people, and surest beliefs in god or country would survive the best - and people who were not as connected, were single, less grounded, would have the worst effects.

The underlying issue may be 'unstable object relations'. This is the underlying condition that creates uncertainty about the world, friends, family, god; everything. It makes people distant, lonely, unsure of themselves, and the accompanying pain often leads people into cults, therapies, the military, unhealthy relationships, addictions, etc.

A lot of us borderlines (I suffer from it) grasp at anything we think we can believe in; anything we think won't change or leave us. When we get love bombed, or meet a very dominant personality, we surrender out of desperation for something solid to hold onto.

If money brought happiness, there would be no expensive LGATs.

GratefulRage,

I am grateful for your enlightening comments. There is so much to ponder on the subject, it will take a while to factor in what you suggest. I may PM you with some specifics, since you seem to understand the issues here very well. Thanks again.

A diagnosis such as Borderline, or Bipolar is a way of grouping different symptoms.
Many of the same symptoms appear in different disorders; it's the exact set that a person has that is supposed to determine how they are diagnosed.

For example, a lot of people with PTSD feel totally paralyzed at times, completely incapable of going out and doing things, from anxiety. This looks like depression.
Then other times, we have too much energy, and rush around bouncing off the walls. This looks like mania. It seems bipolar, but it's not the real bipolar disorder. It's two symptoms of PTSD. There are a lot of examples like that.
That's why if you believe in Psychology / Psychiatry as being valid, you should make sure that a diagnosis has been done by someone qualified. They should ask certain penetrating questions or give tests to sort out different problems that look identical at first.

This is important if you want to sort out what was wrong with someone before we joined a group and got abused, from what we became after the experience. I had to recognize my own self destructive urges that existed before I submitted to a group. My problems aren't from what they did to me, they were there before, and I sought out people to make them worse. I was as disturbed as the people who dominated and controlled me.

If money brought happiness, there would be no expensive LGATs.

On May 31, 2009, DisiectiPoetae made an initial post that is profound and deserves comment. This contributor is a Pagan and offers a perspective that is most enlightening. From a little Internet research, it seems that about 45% of all humanity are Pagans, so it's important to know what they think about Impact Trainings. I hope more detail will eventually be posted, but I understand the desire for anonymity and the concern for the possibility for retaliation. The statement is made that the leaders of the Pagan community actively speak and advise against Impact Trainings, and there is nothing good about it.

I take Pagan religion to mean in general, all religions except the Abrahamic religions (such as Islam, Judaism, and Christianity), and including things like Native American traditions, African tradititions, ethnic religions, Eastern religions, etc. There seems to be no simple, clear definition of what Pagan religion is that all would accept. Strange behavior of Impact trainees is noted. Before reading the post by DisiectiPoetae, I thought much of the strange behavior of LMT folks was due to the Pagan teachings of the trainings, but now I understand that Pagans folks find LMT folks strange. I admit my former ignorance and prejudice. This is most enlightening, and I am grateful to DisiectPoetae for this information.

DisiectiPoetae talks about the twisting of Pagan beliefs held dear and the insulting nature of Impact Trainings motives for financial gain over a concern for the well being of trainees. This twisting of religious beliefs, of whatever religion, seems to be the common thread along with the scheme to get rich that we see at the heart of Impact Trainings. I think that to call Impact Trainings a religion is to give it too much dignity. Fraud scheme is about the best term I could come up with after reading post #1 of DisiectiPoetae.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2009 07:53AM by Hopeful Soul.

Hello!

First of all... Wow.

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad to hear that my words didn't fall on deaf ears, and hopefully people DO realize that the trainings have NOTHING to do with actual Pagan belief systems. Honestly, that was one of the things that outraged me to begin with. We have a hard enough time trying to convince people that we're not a bunch of nuts as it is!

I'm willing to elaborate... a bit. Although I never attended Impact, I still find myself in a precarious situation, as far as my assumed "freedoms of speech" go.

I cannot speak for EVERY variation of poly-theisitic religion.. but.. from what I know of most of them, (which is a considerable amount) I'd say that if you took the time to speak with them, they'd say very similar things. I have struggled with labeling myself, and cannot seem to find anything that seems fitting to me and my personal beliefs, so I avoid placing a name of it outside of readily accepting "Pagan."

I do practice mediation techniques daily, I've studied and delved into chakra work, and I have a particular reverence for Nature. Sadly, I feel that, after this experience, people have come to some conclusions about those practices that are faulty. However, I refuse to hold those people at fault, for the INTENT behind the practices was twisted and confused when it was presented to them.

I have 2 things to say right now, and then I'll leave it alone for a minute.

1) I have observed that Impact Trainees are being taught practices that are closely tied into specific beliefs, but are NOT being taught about intent or about the religious aspects of the practices outside of whatever BS Hans and Sally have decided to feed them. Which... can be rather dangerous if you're active in the occult and have any knowledge or belief in it whatsoever. A wise lesson to learn, in general. A little respect goes a long way, especially when you're dealing with things that are "bigger than you." Not to mention... certain types of chakra work, meditation, and Reiki practices, (of which the "crystal work" reminds me) can actually be dangerous to both your physical AND mental health if not studied under someone who has an understanding of the risk factors, CARES about your well-being, and knows what the hell they're doing!

2) Pagans believe and function on a very specific value system. Of course, Impact has managed to twist even THAT. However, if you research Neo-Pagan religions you will find that there are very strict guidelines concerning the safety of any person you teach. You are basically taking on the responsibility of making sure that individual walks away from you as physically, emotionally, and mentally stable/healthy (if not MORE SO) as they were when you started. AND... Most importantly, following the direction of the thread after the last post...

No. It is NOT ever okay to accept payment IN ANY FORM in return for such teachings, outside of reasonable and voluntary donations that would assist in providing learning tools, books, and travel expenses. By my code of ethics, to accept money in return for teaching anyone anything I would consider a spiritual practice/exercise is outrageous.

IT. DOESN'T. HAPPEN.

As a matter of fact, Pagan groups often host public circles in parks and such. Anyone and everyone is welcome to come by and check it out, ask questions, etc...

That's all I have, for now. I apologize if this reply seems "rambling." I'm in a bit of a rush, but I'll check back and I'd be happy to answer any questions.

DisiectiPoetae,

I do have a few questions. What is your take on the following notion? Impact "twists" trainee's religions as a tool to control their minds. This twisting is evident for your religion and mine. It is not important what the religion is, but that they use the religion of trainees, including atheists, to get to their bottom line, which is always enrollment/money. They do a crude survey of Summit trainees to identify religious belief. Many will remember that. They have a bent on diminishing Christ and magnifying Satan. Have you noticed anything like that in your Pagan beliefs and your concept of an adversary, if you have one?

I don't have much time, but I'll answer as much as I can with the time I have.

Religion is sort of the root of everything. If you can control/manipulate religious beliefs, you can pretty much rule the world. (If you think about it, there is very little separation between church and state, no matter what anyone says.)

I think the reason for that is because people have a tendency, for the most part, to use their beliefs as a cornerstone for all of their choices. If you can get to that, you got 'em.

ALSO... I do know that the trainings focus, at first, on aligning themselves closely with the LDS church. This is because of the population. They're following the basic guidelines for getting people to listen to you. You have to meet someone halfway before you can get them to listen. You have to meet them where it's comfortable.

Hmmm... I'm not sure I understand the last question? Do you mean to say that they're glorifying Satan in some way? Can you explain that a little more?

I, myself, have no particular "adversary" as far as that goes. Only the ignorance and negativity that people bring forth. Hatred... conceptual things.

I hope that clears a few things up. I'll try to elaborate further later on if you have any more questions.